View Full Version : Clean Coarse Sand
PR-Giants
07-07-2015, 12:44 PM
The blocks and rock both protect the moisture at the surface under them and the roots will seek out that area.
Keys : air, temperature, and moisture.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51040 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51040)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51039 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51039)
DEFINITION IMPORTANT
First of all, clean sand, as described by soil scientists through a sieve analysis, is a soil texture composed by weight of at least 25 percent very coarse, coarse and medium sand varying in size from 2.0 to 0.25 mm (millimeters), less than 50 percent of fine or very fine sand ranging in size between 0.25 and 0.05 mm, and no more than 10 percent of particles smaller than 0.05 mm. This is technical, but is the definition soil scientists use to describe clean sand.
A sieve analysis is not really needed on the job, as the fruit jar test is a simple way for both the installer and the inspector to test the quality of the sand. Clean sand can easily be determined by placing exactly 2 inches of the sand in the bottom of a quart fruit jar. Then fill the jar three-fourths full of water. Place the cover on the jar and shake the contents vigorously.
Clean Sand Explained (http://www.pumper.com/editorial/2009/09/clean-sand-explained)
a.hulva@coxinet.net
07-08-2015, 09:17 PM
This picture is of a A'eaA'e?/Maninii that I bought from PR. It was planted in Coarse sand on June 23rd. It had no growth and no roots when planted. This picture was taken July 7th. The first leaf is showing nicely. I use Humalfalfa only on starter plants, and Humalfalfa and a commercial fertilize on more mature ones. It necessary to fertilize after a week or so when using pure sand. I am a believer!!! You can believe it or not.:goteam::bananas_b
[url=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51226]
I screwed up on getting picture shown. Hope to have soon.
PR-Giants
07-08-2015, 09:36 PM
This picture is of an A'ea'e/Manini that I bought from PR. It was planted in Coarse sand on June 25th. It had no growth and no roots when planted. This picture was taken July 7th. The first leaf is showing nicely. I use Humalfalfa only on starter plants, and Humalfalfa and a commercial fertilize on more mature ones. It necessary to fertilize after a week or so when using pure sand. I am a believer!!! You can believe it or not.:goteam::bananas_b
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51226 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51226)
:08:
PR-Giants
07-14-2015, 10:18 AM
Beautiful photo, Congrats Al :08:
18 Days - July 13
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51185 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51185)
Kevin2685
07-14-2015, 10:50 AM
Looking good Al.
Mark Dragt
03-30-2016, 09:41 PM
After having some of my corms rot away during the winter, all my banana plants will be planted in clean course sand. I will post picts of the process as time permits.
I always use a mix containing at least 50% coarse sand. Since I started doing that, my plants do great.
cincinnana
03-31-2016, 08:41 PM
I always use a mix containing at least 50% coarse sand. Since I started doing that, my plants do great.
I thought all your posts said 40% why 50% at this post .....???
Locally, sand is not used as a soil amendment in the horticultural community.
Mainly anything high in organic matter is used for our soil...but everyones is different.
But....... in some instances it is used....but not for Musa.
Soils are more organic than sand or fillers for Musa.
This is local in zone 5-6-7.
Mark Dragt
03-31-2016, 10:58 PM
Myself, I am going to use the sand as a French drain around my corms. My soil drains well, but it is overloaded with organics. So it also holds quite a bit of moisture. So say I have a 3 inch corm. I will probably dig a 7-8 inch hole, and as deep. Then plant the corm surrounded by about 2 inches of sand, bottom and sides. This will allow the water to drain away from the corm. Sometimes in the spring and fall it will rain for several weeks straight. During that time it is not warm out. Just trying to move the water away from the corm.
Mark Dragt
03-31-2016, 11:08 PM
I thought all your posts said 40% why 50% at this post .....???
Locally, sand is not used as a soil amendment in the horticultural community.
But....... in some instances it is used....but not for Musa.
Soils are more organic than sand or fillers for Musa.
This is local in zone 5-6-7.
I think from time time everyone tweeke their soil mix.
I am sure you get some cold rainy spells. How do you keep your corms from rotting.
I thought all your posts said 40% why 50% at this post .....???
Locally, sand is not used as a soil amendment in the horticultural community.
But....... in some instances it is used....but not for Musa.
Soils are more organic than sand or fillers for Musa.
This is local in zone 5-6-7.
My posts usually say at least 40-50% coarse sand. It's possible that I might have occasionnally have said at least 40% but at that point I don't think it'll make a big difference. I do my mixes by the eye. Everything is approximatly mesured and adjusted when mixing.
As long as the horticultural community, I think everybody should consider coarse sand. It works well for me. I grow in containers and the usual mixes give me bad results and I loose plants with them. Everything I plant is planted with my recipe and it works. I have several nanners and fig trees, few cactus, rose apple, a few murraya koenijii, pineapples, tamarind and mandevillas. With the climate we have, the plants spend a lot of time inside my house under fluorescent tubes. I find my mix very forgiving when you overwater. I even put 3\4 inch gravel at the bottom of my pots. It drains and gives weight in case of windy days.
subsonicdrone
04-01-2016, 10:52 AM
i watched a documentary on sand recently
round fine sand is wind blown and sand desirable for cement is coarse
apparently entire beaches are disappearing due to offshore sand dredging
and even carried away by bucket from shore
i spend a lot of time at the beach so i was really digging that doc
gmichael403
04-01-2016, 07:46 PM
Is there a particular brand of coarse sand that is recommended from a big box store? Ive seen bags that state washed all purpose/coarse sand but it does not seem very coarse..still seems to be pretty fine compared to some pics I see of corms potted in this media. Perhaps the pics make the sand appear to be larger granuals than what they really are.
All purpose should be fine.
gmichael403
04-01-2016, 08:21 PM
Great..thanks!
Mark Dragt
04-01-2016, 08:35 PM
Is there a particular brand of coarse sand that is recommended from a big box store? Ive seen bags that state washed all purpose/coarse sand but it does not seem very coarse..still seems to be pretty fine compared to some pics I see of corms potted in this media. Perhaps the pics make the sand appear to be larger granuals than what they really are.
I am making my own, so brand I do not know. Just do the jar test with it. If it doesn't pass the jar test, you can still sift more of the fines out.
bananimal
04-01-2016, 10:11 PM
I thought all your posts said 40% why 50% at this post .....???
Locally, sand is not used as a soil amendment in the horticultural community.
But....... in some instances it is used....but not for Musa.
Soils are more organic than sand or fillers for Musa.
This is local in zone 5-6-7.
Hey guy ---- when are you coming on down again? Last year I hooked up with a organic grower in Palm City - right on the Martin Hwy. He has naners from Keith growing like gangbusters. Morado, ARH, Patupi, Tigua and Williams, etc, all growing fast with all that manure and stuff. Drop me a PM.
Dan the Bananamal
Juicy Bananas
04-01-2016, 11:11 PM
I was curious as to how well the sand holds nutrients? I notice you are using bio-char as well. Do you get a lot of rain where you are? I seem to have similar growth rates with cleaned corms in a home made media.
PR-Giants
04-02-2016, 08:25 AM
Locally, sand is not used as a soil amendment in the horticultural community.
But....... in some instances it is used....but not for Musa.
Soils are more organic than sand or fillers for Musa.
This is local in zone 5-6-7.
The Niche Nursery: Coarse Sand is Horticultural Gold. (http://thenichenursery.blogspot.com/2013/09/coarse-sand-is-horticultural-gold.html)
Propagating sand, horticultural sand, sharp sand, quartz sand & coarse sand are all interchangeable terms that describe the subject material.
The suggestion to add peat and sand is good. Rinse the sand before you use it to remove any salts, and beware that products sold as "playground sand" often contain herbicides and pesticides. If you can find paver pack base (step 1) that is labeled "sharp sand", that is ideal and often inexpensive by the bag or in bulk.
PR-Giants
04-02-2016, 08:32 AM
Hey guy ---- when are you coming on down again? Last year I hooked up with a organic grower in Palm City - right on the Martin Hwy. He has naners from Keith growing like gangbusters. Morado, ARH, Patupi, Tigua and Williams, etc, all growing fast with all that manure and stuff. Drop me a PM.
Dan the Bananamal
Hey Bananamal ---- there's also a member in Port St Lucie growing the Morado, Goldfinger, French Red, Tigua, and a few more.
Are you still dealing with that damp off rotting problem you had for like 8 years in that highly amended sugar sand soil?
Of the mats I have seen in Florida all of them are in amended sugar sand soil (the local consistency) .
These were mature mats with pups, in the ground.
The amendments are high in organic matter. The growers grew this plant just as they did the other plants they had.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=52819
PR-Giants
04-02-2016, 08:55 AM
I was curious as to how well the sand holds nutrients? I notice you are using bio-char as well. Do you get a lot of rain where you are?
I seem to have similar growth rates with cleaned corms in a home made media.
The interesting thing about growing bananas is that just about every way works and everybody's way works the best. So really what
works best for someone should depend on their individual goals. The less banana plants a person grows usually means the more time,
effort, and money that can spent on each plant. Many folks are always amending everything and that works great for them, but that
would be wasteful and too inefficient for our farm. We try to do more with less and realize that healthy banana roots need air, moisture,
and nutrients, and as we increased the amount of air in the soil our bunch weights increased while our 'planting to harvest' times decreased.
The CCS provides a study foundation with an environment that maintains a proper air/moisture ratio for healthy fast growing roots
while being supplied with nutrients from the protective layer of top mulch above. We have been able to consistently produce large
bunches for several decades without ever needing to use fertilizer.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57126
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57169
Juicy Bananas
04-02-2016, 01:30 PM
And that is what we do on our home stead. I must ask though. How close to the ocean are you? Elevation? You guys are doing an excellent job.:waving:
I'm not adding any more sand of any type to my sand. Nope. Just not going to do it. Sometimes I kinda miss clay.
crazy banana
08-01-2016, 01:50 AM
PR Giants: I remember your posts from 2013/14 where you had some remarkable success planting banana pups in pots with nothing else than grass clippings.
Usually I do not grow any banana pups in pots at all, but have one pup to experiment with right now ( nice corm but no roots attached, they were all under a concrete slab :( )
Are you still promoting the grass clipping method or are you favoring the coarse sand method over the grass clipping method now?
PR-Giants
08-13-2016, 08:04 AM
Hey crazy, you probably got confused by a photo of some mulch.
Post a link to whatever it was you think you thought you read.
PR Giants: I remember your posts from 2013/14 where you had some remarkable success planting banana pups in pots with nothing else than grass clippings.
badman62
08-15-2016, 04:06 PM
i find grass clippings as mulch is great as long as they dont mat up and start to smell
then they are producing anaerobic bacteria. not good for plants.
Sand has worked pretty well for me in containers.
i use different amounts depending on how fine or coarse it is.
i would rather use the coarse stuff, but my backyard is mostly fine sand with a little silt and clay. i get excellent growth of temperate as well as tropical fruits.
i dio use a lot of mulch and compost though
im not big into chemicals
just about everything i grow natural, except for a little fish emulsion.
banana is in the same family as grass, as is papaya and bamboo
they are all bacterial based
as opposed to fungal based plants (woody)
with bacterial based plants, you can use grass as fertilizer
you can also use sugars like molasses.
both are much better for the soil than chemicals
the both attract worms, where, chemicals burn them.
worms work free 24x7, aerate the soil and give you free fertilizer.
crazy banana
08-15-2016, 11:40 PM
Hey crazy, you probably got confused by a photo of some mulch.
Post a link to whatever it was you think you thought you read.
Banana Gallery - 32 Gallon Left dec 11 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51655)
And your comments in your post from July 16, 2012 " can a banana plant grow in a container of grass clippings without any soil".
PR-Giants
08-21-2016, 07:51 PM
OK, so you got confused by some mulch.
The photo shows a pile of mulch in the center and the banana planted in the ground is to the right.
It shows that the roots will grow through the ground towards the moisture source and up into the mulch.
There are much better photos in my gallery.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51655 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51655)
Banana Gallery - 32 Gallon Left dec 11 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51655)
And your comments in your post from July 16, 2012 " can a banana plant grow in a container of grass clippings without any soil".
crazy banana
08-21-2016, 09:03 PM
OK, so you got confused by some mulch.
The photo shows a pile of mulch in the center and the banana planted in the ground is to the right.
It shows that the roots will grow through the ground towards the moisture source and up into the mulch.
There are much better photos in my gallery.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=51655 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51655)
Got it. Finally. Duh me 😳
PR-Giants
08-21-2016, 09:43 PM
promoting
crazy, if you're into promotions you should do
Richards promotion that guarantees 450 pound bunches.
But you gotta start with a richard approved cultivar that average 150 pound bunches.
I'll bump the thread for you.
There are about a dozen cultivars that will produce 150 lbs (gross) of fruit per inflorescence in a sub-tropical or near-tropical environment...
crazy banana
08-21-2016, 10:17 PM
crazy, if you're into promotions you should do
Richards promotion that guarantees 450 pound bunches.
But you gotta start with a richard approved cultivar that average 150 pound bunches.
I'll bump the thread for you.
Thanks. I am not interested in bunches like that nor am I interested in participating in bananas.org drama.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.