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lwabirds
07-18-2007, 11:25 PM
hey all,
I've been think of how I will "winterize" my basjoo's this fall. I wanted to get some of your thoughts on my idea:
1. cut the psuedostem down to 12"
2. Place dry much around it.
3. Place a large lawn bag (plastic) full of dried leaves over the 12" making sure that the bag covers the ground well.

Do you think this would work? I'm not wanting to build cages for them b/c I have so many of them.
Any ideas/suggestions would be great!

sandy0225
07-19-2007, 12:55 AM
I forgot to look what zone you're in, but I do that exact same thing. One difference, I use 5 bags of leaves per plant. N,s,e,w, of the stem and one over the top. It covers a lot more area around the roots of the plant which I think helps in zone 5a.
Sincerely,
Sandy

lwabirds
07-19-2007, 11:41 AM
i'm in zone 6a (southern OHio). I planted my bananas in flower beds surrounded by landscaping blocks. I don't think there is enough room for multiple bags of leaves. Do you mulch the psuedostems at all before covering with bagged leaves? If so, with what? have you ever grown the red tigers or wintered them out side?

ryanmarc
08-11-2007, 11:57 PM
Hi, i live in the uk and although i only have a few plants i place wooden pallets (which you can get almost anywhere for free) around them and cut the leaves off and fill with straw and cover with a waterproof sheet. it does require a bit of work but if you want your banana plants to grow larger than they were the previous year its well worth it.

I hope this helps.

Marc

Tangy
08-13-2007, 07:50 AM
Has anyone ever tried to protect the psuedostem with a high R-factor fiberglass insulation? I may try this in conjunction with bags of leaves.

I have been thinking about where to store the plants I dig up for the winter. This may be overkill but I am considering digging a small root cellar to place them in?

:coldbanana:

mudcat25
08-13-2007, 08:43 AM
I've had basjoo's for about 3yrs now and have always cut them down to the ground and mulched around them. My p-stems are about 6ft now.

Last year when I got on this site I did hear of the cage method and also the bags of leaves. I'm just wondering if I will get larger plants with these methods or just more work. Has anyone had success with these methods creating larger plants? For 3-4ft it may be woth it!

cactus6103
08-13-2007, 12:34 PM
I am considering doing something similar to my Basjoo, Sikkimensis and Zebrina. I want to place rebar stakes around the plant and fill the area with pine straw. Living near Charlotte NC, I don’t think I need too much protection. It will be my first winter for most of these plants.

Also not sure if I need to cut off all the leaves or not? Cut the plant off at a certain height?

I know we are all sweating in this August heat, but it will be winter before you know it. Red

mrbungalow
08-15-2007, 05:18 AM
12" seems a little on the short side. I would definately try to save more stem for a bigger plant next year. No matter what, part of your plant will be subject to frost. Or to clarify, part of your plant will allways turn to mush after averwintering, no way around it! Why not leave an "insurance policy", by leaving more stem?

Erlend

frankthetank
08-15-2007, 09:37 PM
What are some of your low temps for you guys and gals???

I've got 2 Basjoos in the ground (7ft for one, 4 ft for the other) and i'm thinking of either digging them and leaving them in my cold basement (no heat) or in the ground. I could actually pot them up and put them in the kitchen, but am not sure if i would gain next spring by doing that (the goal here is more height next year)>>>???

The past 7 winters, these have been my yearly lows. It doesn't stay cold like this for long, but once a storm moves through and the clear skies come in along with Canadian high pressure, the temp likes to drop way off...especially with fresh snowcover. All temps in Fahrenheit.
-19F
-21F
-19F
-19F
-9F
-6F
-24F

D_&_T
08-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Hey Frank,

where do you live and what zone?


Dan & Tara

frankthetank
08-15-2007, 10:50 PM
I consider myself more of a zone 5, but its probably zone 4 with those temps i listed. The thing that gets me is just one or 2 nights out of the winter where the possibility exists for a -20F. Heck, the winter with the -6F came in MARCH..up to that point it never went below 0F (First time ever). The late 90's were pretty mild too.

My location is almost right on the Mississippi River @ about 600ft elevation.

D_&_T
08-15-2007, 11:02 PM
think "sandy0225" could answer you best, she has some cold weather too, she has a nursery

Dan & Tara

mrbungalow
08-16-2007, 12:32 AM
It doesn't matter how cold it gets, what matters is how deep the frosts penetrate. Offcourse, there is a co-relation, but sometimes frosts don't penetrate too deep.

After many trials, I would discourage anyone trying to overwinter basjoo "under the house" or "in the basement". This may work for dwarf orinocos/ regular orinocos and a few others, but temperate bananas just start growing at these rather cold temperatures, turn yellow, and die on you. They are in my opinion bets treated as perrenials.

Erlend

frankthetank
08-16-2007, 08:20 AM
Bungalow-

I brought in my D Cavendish last year and set it in one of the bedrooms and while it didn't grow @ all, it didn't die either...just sat there. So maybe i'll toss out the basement route and either pot them up and sit them in the kitchen or leave them in the ground outside.

Snowcover is not a given thing around here, and thats what leads to deep/shallow frosts. I'm just guessing, but i bet the frost is pretty deep around here some winters. We have had instances, where the temp will go below 0F and have no snow on the ground... That would surely kill a Basjoo i'm suspecting.

BGreen
08-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Last year when I got on this site I did hear of the cage method and also the bags of leaves. I'm just wondering if I will get larger plants with these methods or just more work. Has anyone had success with these methods creating larger plants? For 3-4ft it may be woth it!

Last winter a friend and I tried the cage method.
We cut the pseudostems down to 36" and built a 32" diameter chicken wire cage around the plants and filled them with straw. We then covered the cage with a tarp and tied it down with twine. We ended up losing all the main pseudostems, but all the pups survied. Granted this was a wet winter for us and the bananas are located in a lower spot. I'm not sure what we are going to do this year yet.

frankthetank
08-16-2007, 06:31 PM
Hmmm... Still no real idea of what to do. I can pretty much rule out leaving them in the ground...i don't trust our winters.

lwabirds
08-16-2007, 06:51 PM
i'm in southern ohio, zone 6. When is a good time to cut them back and mulch them in the fall? October? November?

mudcat25
08-16-2007, 07:29 PM
In zone 6 I'm going to leave mine in as long as they look good. I am going to try the cage method on one mat and see what difference comes of that. So that one a may start a little early, but for the others I will mulch heavily before the first frost and cut it down when it freezes. I believe if you are going to just cut them down to ground level the tree itself does not have to be cut before the first frost.

frankthetank
08-16-2007, 07:48 PM
lwabirds...

If its a "normal" fall we usually see one hard frost and then another warm up afterwards. Last year it looks like here in La Crosse, the 3rd week of October would pretty much freeze my plants (22F) with highs in the low 40's. I might pot mine up earlier and then move in and out of the garage until it gets too cold. I've got my doly.

It would be interesting to know...if a person was looking for size (height/girth) the FOLLOWING summer...would

A. cutting back and leaving in the ground
B. digging up and leaving inside warm house (leaves intact)
C. digging up corm and leaving in cold area

be the best method if all plants were equal size before experiment...say 6ft Basjoos??? :)

My guess would be B even if neglected in a cooler room with little light (my d Cavendish did just fine in this situation.)

mudcat25
08-16-2007, 07:57 PM
Frank

I have dug one up and potted it for the winter, about a 3ft plant. I kept it in a basement with temps of about 55, 4ft plant lights (cheap shop lights), not much water. Ended up with maybe 2-3 new leaves. My mats that I cut to ground level this year outgrew that tree by far. Not sure if it is because of the larger mats in the ground compared to the smaller corm of the indoor plant or the methods used.

lwabirds
08-16-2007, 10:11 PM
mudcat,
do you cover the plants with tarps or any thing after you mulch them and cut them down?

frankthetank
08-16-2007, 11:56 PM
Thats very interesting. I wonder if its the shock of replanting in the spring? I noticed my Basjoo's this spring sat for a good month and did nothing or almost nothing, before they started going. The weather was perfect or near perfect for most of it???

Can you refrigerate a corm?

mudcat25
08-17-2007, 07:03 PM
Iwabirds,
All I do is put about 8in of mulch over and around my mat after I cut them down. Has worked for a few years now. I'm hoping to try the cage method on one mat this year and try for a couple of more feet.

Frank,
Not to sure why I had the results that I did but I know that plant will stay in the ground this year! I did try to overwinter one bareroot in my basement. I would definitely not suggest that way. My p-stem looked like a dry corn stalk however the corm did survive. As for refrigerating a corm, no idea how it would work.

lwabirds
08-17-2007, 10:08 PM
mudcat,
how far down (inches) do you cut them?

frankthetank
08-17-2007, 10:51 PM
Here is the bananas in question for me...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/franktank232/basjoo/basjoaug17.jpg

mudcat25
08-18-2007, 12:51 PM
Iwabirds,
I cut them to ground level. They have made it to 6ft of p-stem. I've never tried leaving some p-stem.

microfarmer
08-21-2007, 11:00 AM
Has anyone ever tried to protect the psuedostem with a high R-factor fiberglass insulation? I may try this in conjunction with bags of leaves.
:coldbanana:



Fiberglass insulation, if it gets wet, will stay wet for a long time and would tend to rot a Pstem...unless you put the insulation in a plastic sleeve first to keep out the moisture.

Tangy
08-21-2007, 11:54 AM
"Has anyone ever tried to protect the psuedostem with a high R-factor fiberglass insulation? I may try this in conjunction with bags of leaves."

Fiberglass insulation, if it gets wet, will stay wet for a long time and would tend to rot a Pstem...unless you put the insulation in a plastic sleeve first to keep out the moisture.


thats a good point and if I try it, I will try to keep them dry.

The second part of my question pertained to root cellars. Does anyone here know if that would be a good way to store other varieties?

Thanks-:2201:

frankthetank
08-21-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm reading about grape growing and came across this piece of info.

In the Eisert Vineyard in MN, the vines are pinned to the ground with wire wickets and completely covered with corn straw. During the winter of 1976, when outside air temperatures registered -43F, the temperature under the mulch was -8F.

They use a method that allows them to keep the vine close to the ground and then they cover it for winter. 35F warmer under the mulch, not bad?

sandy0225
08-22-2007, 11:32 AM
I think our weather here is similar to yours. We are in a little microclimate of Indiana that doesn't get a lot of snow in the winter always, but when the cold weather comes, it can get to -20 degrees. Sometimes with no snow cover at all! So it kills lots of things.
I lost several basjoo last winter, ones that were two years old mostly. I think the reason is this, right after we covered the bananas, it got really warm, unusually so, and stayed that way on and off until December. With lots of rain. My fish pond overflowed on a couple of them. I didn't uncover mine, but I think now that I should have. I think that caused them to rot. Then after December, it got unusually cold in January and February with not hardly any snowfall at all. Then it got really warm in March, up to around 60-70 degrees a few times and things started to grow and leaf out, and so then it snowed about 18",that melted and then it got back down to -5 in early April with no snow. That did in lots of things. No peaches, no apples, no pears, cherries, in this area at all this year.

This year, I'm thinking of mulching a couple of them a little differently to see how it works, I'm thinking circling around the cut off stem with the large trash bags of leaves, leaving a hole in the middle about three feet across with the stem in the center of the hole, then filling the hole with loose unbagged leaves, then fastening a tarp across the top of the whole thing to help shed excess water. I'm thinking that I might need some kind of a short teepee in the center over the cut off pseudostem. Like one made of bamboo or sticks or etc, maybe with a tin can over the top to keep it from poking through the tarp, to keep the leaves from compacting around the pseudostem and maintaining more air spaces over winter. I don't think it would take a lot of time to do that around a couple of clumps of basjoo, and it would work well around a larger clump because I could vary the size of the circle to include all the pups....
Whatcha think?

frak23
08-31-2007, 12:53 AM
Hi! Has anyone here heard of winterizing a banana tree with bubble wrap? I read it online a while ago. I think it was in the Northwest Palms website. Someone in Canada used bubble-wrap to completely wrap his basjoo for winter. He claims that it works. He said you don't need to dig out the banana tree or cut the pseudostem...just the leaves. I wonder if this works with other bananas like Ice Cream, Misi luki, Orinocos...etc.:2740:

Found the website: http://www.cloudforest.com/northwest/forum/17302.html

mrbungalow
08-31-2007, 06:58 AM
I guess I would narrow it down to three simple rules for overwintering basjoos:

1. Keep them well insulated Build as wide and tall structure as you can afford. Hay is tried and tested, and is what lets' me overwinter bananas in Norway. Here, I use a structure of about 1 meter (>3 feet) in diameter.
2. Keep the clump dry Cover the structure with something that keeps the hay/insulation dry. A sheet of plastic tied around shoulc be sufficient.
3. Dont' uncover before stable spring weather has arrived. Insulation works both ways. If you have a day in February with 60degrees F, don't uncover the structure. Inside it will be nice and cold. Don't wake the sleeping bear! ;-)
:coldbanana:

frankthetank
08-31-2007, 05:25 PM
Still not sure what i'm doing. I'm scared of a -25F winter killing my precious! I still think i'm going to dig and store the corm in the basement or just pot them all up and bring them inside. Once i get a nice collection i would be more apt to just let them be outside. I really want to redo where they are situated anyways.

Mrbungalow-

Quite a climate you live in. A little digging from past winter shows you at a low of 15F (-9C) on 02/11. The warmest temp was 78F? this summer. Wow. I suppose you are constantly blasted by the north Atlantic sitting right there on the coast. Actually a pretty temperate place to live...although you currently sit @ 46F! (heck i'm going down to 53F tonite after a high of 81F).

mrbungalow
09-01-2007, 04:45 AM
Frank: I understand the dilemma a little too well. As I stated earlier I would discourage anyone trying to store the corm of Musa basjoo or other temperate species in the basement. The basement of a house is relatively warm. Even at 50 degrees the Basjoo will be fit for fight and want to start growing.

I also understand your concern with the arctic blasts and prolonged subfreezing temperatures. But if you insulate and mulch enough, the inside of your wrapped structure will absorb heat/radiation from the earth and stay at about 32 degrees F or just above, wich is perfect for musa basjoo. I am sure a physics-teacher can explain the U-values of insulation better than me! If you really want to be sure they don't freeze, wrap heating-cables around the trunks, set to be turned on at a few degres above freezing.

I am not guaranteeing your basjoo will survive outside, but I think it's your best bet. I wouldn't be saying all this if I didn't think they would make it. I have heard of and seen examples of success in Chicago and Canada. Also, this is your only chance to get a truly large plant next summer. If you have a pup or two, why don't you take these inside as insurance?

And yes, the climate here is pretty temperate. I think Bergen is the warmest place in the world at this latitude (we are on the same latitude as the south tip of Greenland and Alaska). Still, it's no tropical paradise since it rains like there's no tomorrow here. Apart from Bananas, Windmill-palms, monkey puzzles, Gunnera manicata, and Cordylines thrive here. Bergen is also known as the Rhododendron capitol in Scandinavia.
We are not so battered by the Atlantic as you may think, that's because the coastline is uneven and has many islands, fjords, and mountains wich take the worst beating. Here today there's no wind but plenty of rain!

frankthetank
09-01-2007, 11:06 AM
I've got 3 Basjoo pups (in pots, coming inside this winter), and as long as they don't DIE! i'll leave atleast one corm in the ground :) We have plenty of time, at least 4-6 weeks before the first frost...

sandy0225
09-06-2007, 09:01 PM
I haven't had any luck in preserving any height on mine. One year one of them did overwinter right to the stump height I'd cut though, it just pushed right out of the trunk just like it had just been cut off a few days ago. But that was only one year, and apparently a mild winter.
Usually I cut mine down low to around 12-18 inches and pile the bags of leaves around and over the top of the stem.
I haven't tried making a cage--because it probably wouldn't work here, and I'm way too busy in the fall anyway.
We get low temps to -21 or -22 every three or four years. Just often enough that you can't keep nice things. When we get that, it seems it always happens when we have no snow, or just about 1/2 inch that doesn't help at all.

frankthetank
09-07-2007, 08:44 AM
First cold blast of the season coming in the next week. Some spots could go into the 30's. I'm going to be covering my SDC, but i think the Basjoo's should be OK.

I'm wondering if piling snow (when it does fall) all around the banana area (deep) would help insulate? I think if you mounded it good, it would create a "banana igloo" ? Tempting.

mrbungalow
09-07-2007, 09:11 AM
I haven't tried making a cage--because it probably wouldn't work here, and I'm way too busy in the fall anyway.

I think you are wrong. Go for the cage! Utilize hay instead of leaves, and a raincover to keep it dry. This will do wonders for you. Building such a structure will only take an hour of your time, at most.

Erlend

ekoboat
09-08-2007, 11:37 AM
I protected mine with a straw cage and covered with a plastic tarp, the stems were cut back to 3 feet. My low last winter was about 5 degrees. I had enough protection that they grew all winter, except for about 2-3 weeks when we had a ice storm. I had to lift the tarp and cut off the new growth every couple of weeks. You can see they are growing in March. The last photos were taken in May. That is a 6ft fence behind them. I plan to protect all of my bananas the same way this winter. My other album has photos from August.
You can see the photos at http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559134962MKwWKF:coldbanana:

sandy0225
09-10-2007, 06:02 AM
Thanks for the info. I'm going to make a cage for a few of them and see what it will accomplish height-wise in the spring. It doesn't look that hard. You guys ever have problems with mice or voles in those cages? We seem to have a lot of them because of the cornfield out back.

I think the hardest part around here will be keeping a tarp on top of it. We have to run inflation on our greenhouses constantly because of the wind. Without it, we can't even keep plastic on top. Seven to ten times each spring and again in the fall we get 50 mile per hour winds, and with a big open field and highway behind our property there's no chance of stopping or slowing that wind.

I would think that if you used a good cover like a cage or bags of leaves, and then piled snow over the top of it, you would get even better protection with snow being the insulator that it is.

Every time it snows, I shovel snow all around the bottom edges of the greenhouse to help insulate, too. I don't know if it really helps all that much, but it makes me feel better! Besides I miss being outside in the winter, since I spend 6-8 hours outdoors at least the rest of the time.

mrbungalow
09-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Here's the Canadian guy who inspired me:
http://www.tropic.ca/K-L-M-N/Musa%20Basjoo%20Winter%20Protection.htt

Erlend

cactus6103
09-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Great article on wrapping up your banana plants for the winter. It's hard to think about that when it is 95 and sunny! Red

D_&_T
09-10-2007, 11:47 PM
I hear that, its been in upper 70's or in 80's...............calling for possible frost this weekend here in northern Indiana!! little pots just move inside over night, but the 20 gal will have to cover. any suggestions?

Dan & Tara

frankthetank
09-11-2007, 09:57 AM
DT- I also may have to deal with frost, but i plan on just covering mine with some blankets for now. Its suppose to warm right back into the 80's again, so i would rather protect them for one night and maybe have another 2 or 3 weeks of growth...even though i doubt even some light frost would even harm them?

D_&_T
09-11-2007, 11:11 AM
Thanks Frankthetank,

yea I agree about keeping out as long as can. Its just easier to move little ones in over night, there are 1 to 3 gal size, one in 20 gal is mom and 2 two pups with mom over 8 foot. the last couple new leaves are still standing straight up:0489:

Dan

Inoneear
09-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Hey Erlend ,Ray's a great guy and man would I love to have his back yard!!!

frankthetank
09-12-2007, 11:40 AM
Dropped to 40F here last night. I didn't protect the Basjoos but brought everything in containers inside. They seem fine. I've got one more night (friday) to keep an eye on (in case of frost).

buzzwinder
09-12-2007, 05:26 PM
Here in northern illinois it has been down in the low forties at night, a little nerve racking but besides Friday forecast of 38 the next week looks ok, lows 48-55 highs in the 70's low 80's, I have several plants in small planters that are easy to move. But My DC is in a pot that weighs about 175 lbs. trying to figure out what to do for overwintering as this is my first Banana I got n April, and has three healthy growing plants :basketballnaner:

frankthetank
09-12-2007, 06:30 PM
I use a dolly to move around a super Dwarf Cavendish i have in a 20gallon pot. It makes easy work of it to move in and out of the garage, probably until mid October when it finally comes inside for good. This is the time of year when a hoop house would be great.

buzzwinder
09-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Thanks, I may have to stop by HD or Menards on the way home from work tomorrow, really want to get these through the winter :2686:

Crazy_canuck
09-14-2007, 09:36 AM
WOW, frost already! I live in Canada and our first frost date is around Oct. 15th. I wish you the best of luck in over wintering, and beating the frost! I will be in your situation next month!

PAJ53
09-14-2007, 12:29 PM
When I lived in norther Indiana 30 years ago I had a farm and put the Banana I grew there in a winter hot bed I dug a trench with a back hoe 9 to 10 feet deep and four foot wide and put in moist fresh cow manure in the bottom 18 inches to two ft deep and covered it with straw then set the bare root plants on on the straw layer and then put a bail of peat around the roots of the bananas and covered the hole with a couple of old sliding glass doors on the times that it got really cold (-20 deg F ) I covered the glass door with plywood and bales of straw. The layer of cow manure was usually made enough heat to keep the temp to above 60 at night in the hole and allow slow growth all winter; when spring cam I just lifted them out with the back hoe and dug out the peat and cow manure and straw and used it for potting mix and pushed the hole back shut with the backhoe. It is very important not to let water run in to a hot bed and in some locations a sump pump may be needed to keep the hole dry. in the late winter I started my bedding plants under the glass in the hot bed for a early start to the garden. If I was going to do this today I would add supplemetal lighting the days up there are just too short in Dec and January Up north.

D_&_T
09-14-2007, 12:40 PM
what part of northern IN did you live in the 70's?
we live in Wabash county:2747:
Dan & Tara

PAJ53
09-14-2007, 12:51 PM
RE: D_&_T --North West Allen county EeL River Township between Huntertown and Churubusco From -- Philip

Tangy
09-29-2007, 09:23 AM
Has anyone ever tried a "Wall O Water" to protect their plants?

http://www.weauction4you.com/images/wow/wow3.jpg

microfarmer
09-29-2007, 11:54 AM
I can see that working for small plants and protection for the lower Pstem, corm, and pups, but I don't think they make them very tall (over 36") to protect the upper Pstem of the full size plants. If you have dwarf varieties, they may help if you blanket the canopy with some kind of cover.

Njoynit
09-29-2007, 07:03 PM
Well,I'm going to be the weird one here today.But have enjoyed reading how all ya'll overwinter your Basjoo's.

I live in SE Texas zone 8b.normally I just cut& compost my leaves& don't even mulch my plants.I have never had them bloom.My biggest one is now going on 5 years& 9 feet and actually had the most stem loss last year(but is still taller than the others)I'm wanting to relocate this one large banana (includeing pups...its set 5 this year so far)cause its in the way of my brugmansias& actually shades the backside of my brugmansia in the late afternoon.So my thoughts we're to connect the 2 beds my banana is in between this winter while its cooler outside and will sweat less in the process.

1.I could winter in my GH but are times the temps rise in it durring the winter cause we still feel the heat from the sun in winter and even have a good bit of highs in the 60s even a few 80s in Jan/Feb.
But I do have room in the GH(was my main request that I have plenty of ceiling space for hanging baskets and knew my banana might be going here.)But I worry about the temps durring the day.sometimes its reached 115 in the winter in the afternoons...with the doors open.wetting the floor helps some.

2. I can winter in kitchen cause have vaulted ceilings.And I wintered my dwarf cavendish& lil prince in this room last year,just by sitting them in front of french doors.

3. my house is on blocks so I could opt for the yankee method and place under house or stick in hubbys garage.

I've no idea why its never bloomed,but someone on GW told me about 2 years ago that if it set alot of pups it was getting ready to bloom.I'm sure it gets plently of fertilizer as is between 3 brugmansias.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/njoynit/Brugmansia/Sept122007backshotofseedlingwhisker.jpg

Here's some input I've noticed here in Tx up in Tyler which is a zone 7b I believe.Is a lady in town.When freezes are forcast I've seen her bananas wrapped in waterheater blankets?(looks like foiled covered insulation on both sides)she ties this around plants and then wraps plastic around outside with enough sticking up to fold over the top to keep dry.she has a centry plant that has a cage built like a box covered in plastic but has christmas lights underneath for adding a lil heat.

some years ago...When Paul James was at his old house he had a guest on his show that showed wintering banana plants under house,just like Frank in Knox/Nash does.I do think the guy lived in NY.But he wrapped roots in burlap,but did wash roots off and let them dry out for a week.

saltydad
10-05-2007, 12:47 AM
I see some recommend using leaves and others straw or hay. This will be my 1st winter with a Basjoo w/3 pups, a velutina w/3 pups, 2 Trachycarpus fortunei, a sabal minor McCurtain and a Rhapidophyllum hystrix. I was planning on using small cages after cutting the banana p-stems to around 12" and using leaves (tulip poplar) from my yard. Do you all suggest using hay or straw instead? Maybe both? Reasons? And I guess the reason for some using bags of leaves is so they stay dry? Thanks!

sunsetsammy
10-05-2007, 01:21 PM
After many trials, I would discourage anyone trying to overwinter basjoo "under the house" or "in the basement". Erlend

I think its very interesting to consider all the different conditions that people have to deal with in terms of overwintering their plants. Every area is different and with it's own challenges.

I live on Vancouver Island and while our winters can be on the mild side we have to deal with heavy rain and cold wet conditions. I have seen others in my area winter their Basjoos using the cage method however I think it really depends on the location and more specifically the water table of each microsite. Some areas with good drainage most of the year will become almost swampy in the winter months. Taking a walk in my backyard during the winter feels like walking on a wet sponge. My feet sink into the soil and puddles form where I have just stepped.

While building a cage and waterproofing it with a tarp may keep the surface around the base of the plant dry, I think that water would come up from underneath. I have limited experience but cold and wet doesn't sound good for any banana. Last year I dug all of my Basjoos (except one) and stored them in an unheated shed. We did have a colder than usual winter but every one of them survived and came back larger than last year. The one plant I left in the ground as an experiment was in my front yard where drainage is better. It wasn't protected at all and the stem that I left turned to mush and I ended up cutting it at ground level. The plant survived but grew very slowly all summer and didn't get much larger than the year before.

I guess it really depends on how warm/cold it is under your house.

Tangy
10-28-2007, 10:18 AM
First frost likely tonight or tomorrow night! Time to get busy.

Tropicallvr
10-29-2007, 07:16 PM
Has anyone you know of overwintered in zone 4? I'm in Montana now, and am close to 4b, but close to 5a. Is heat cable the only way to leave them outside, or would enough straw do the trick?
Thinking about trying Daj Giant, and sikkimensis X paradisica next winter if they get big enough.
Thanks.

Tangy
10-31-2007, 01:26 PM
Here's the Canadian guy who inspired me:
http://www.tropic.ca/K-L-M-N/Musa%20Basjoo%20Winter%20Protection.htt

Erlend

Lots to think about there at the link you provided. Thanks. I had wondered about the possibility of burying the entire plant before. I just read in that link:

"Musa Basjoo is protected over winter by digging a trench as long as the
stalk you want to protect. Cut, dig and fall or roll the plant into the trench and cover with and deep layer of soil, leaves or mulch. In Spring dig-up and prop the tree back up ready for a new year."

I think they said it was done like that in Italy. I think I am going to try it.

mrbungalow
10-31-2007, 02:19 PM
I think its very interesting to consider all the different conditions that people have to deal with in terms of overwintering their plants. Every area is different and with it's own challenges.

I live on Vancouver Island and while our winters can be on the mild side we have to deal with heavy rain and cold wet conditions. I have seen others in my area winter their Basjoos using the cage method however I think it really depends on the location and more specifically the water table of each microsite. Some areas with good drainage most of the year will become almost swampy in the winter months. Taking a walk in my backyard during the winter feels like walking on a wet sponge. My feet sink into the soil and puddles form where I have just stepped.

While building a cage and waterproofing it with a tarp may keep the surface around the base of the plant dry, I think that water would come up from underneath. I have limited experience but cold and wet doesn't sound good for any banana. Last year I dug all of my Basjoos (except one) and stored them in an unheated shed. We did have a colder than usual winter but every one of them survived and came back larger than last year. The one plant I left in the ground as an experiment was in my front yard where drainage is better. It wasn't protected at all and the stem that I left turned to mush and I ended up cutting it at ground level. The plant survived but grew very slowly all summer and didn't get much larger than the year before.

I guess it really depends on how warm/cold it is under your house.

Your words make perfect sense, and I know all about the "footstep-puddles"! We have them here too from october til early march. You should however, avoid planting these kinds of plants in such locations. Or atleast build a mound or raised bed.

You can look all over the world but it's hard to find a place with more rain than Bergen, where I live. I guarantee it rains more than Vancouver! When we speak of rain, we are not beat by any location at our latitude, probably only tropical locations.
I would have to say siting is critical for survival of these types of exotic plants, and siting is part of the equation to overwinter them successfully. If you plant a banana in a "lawn-lake" it will rot & die, no way around it - as would many other plants.

Having said that, Musa Basjoo continues to amaze me; It tolerates more than I would ever think. Last year (as an experiment) I left 2 plants in the rain outside enclosed in a wire cage with straw - no tarp/plastic! These plants were on a slight slope, but with saturated soil nontheless. Even though the straw/hay got soaked and we had several subfreezing nights, the plants survived and came back fine with much of the stem (musa helen lost stems however, but came back from the ground!). (Having said that, the ones with additional plastic-cover looked better and had a few inches more of stem.)
In comparison, all the ones I have taken inside, put in the basement, or set in the garage have either died, rotted, or gotten seriously "leggy".

It seems to me, the more we "fuss" with musa basjoo moving plants inside & out, uprooting them and putting them in crawlspaces, and stressing it, the worse it performs. I would leave this treatment to the more tender banana-types. Even though described as a fast plant, I have noticed Musa basjoo seems to be one of the slowest growing banana-species, and needs time to spread roots and settle in. When we uproot and move them, you loose alot of growth the next season.

I know of a guy in Saltspring Island, BC who has large, majestic m. basjoos, and only protects them with bubble-wrap.

My best tip, and humble opinion is therefore to avoid planting in waterholes, leave m. basjoo in its' place, and protect according to wich zone you are in.

frankthetank
11-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I just had too much invested in my plants to try to winter them over in a spot that could get to -25F. It sucks because some years we'll have good snowcover throughout the year and others we won't have a good snowcover until March (snowcover=more insulation). Next year i won't bother and i'll leave them. I should have more then enough pups to bring inside to continue my "patch". Digging them up isn't for me. I did it this year and i won't do it again, unless i have a banana that i know won't make it, like my SDC's.

Tropicallvr
11-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Here in Montana when I was a kid we built a pump house out of straw bale, to keep the water from freezing. Now that I am a banana man I figure that I could buy extra straw bales to account for the extra cold it gets here, maybe double the amount of straw that those zone 6ers use?
Maybe I just have a new case of zone denial.

frankthetank
11-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Only thing you'd have to worry about is frost getting into the ground around the banana. Thats the issue i can see here. In snowbelt areas to the north and east, the ground never freezes, but here it isn't always the case. I might bury a temp probe this winter under a couple of bags of leaves on the lawn and just see what it does. I've got a digital wireless thermometer with one of those 10ft probe attachments that i could use for this.

Tropicallvr
11-02-2007, 10:07 AM
That makes a whole lot of sense. Root temp is the main factor in growth in spring, so it makes sense it would be for survival in winter.
They sell some stuff that looks like extension cords in the jungle seeds catalog that would work for burying, but it might be the same stuff people use to wrap around their pipes.
Anyways, thanks for the tips!

frankthetank
11-02-2007, 10:14 AM
If a person was a diehard or just had some laying around, 1 inch foam board (the pink stuff) buried lengthwise (they come in 4x8 foot sheets) all around the banana bed would surely stop frost from coming through if you covered the top of the bed well. Its the same system they use on newer homes around here. After they pour basement walls, they insulate the EXTERIOR with foam board. Then you can frame and inuslate your basement walls with fiberglass batts. I believe people also use this method when they build greenhouses. A couple feed down, the ground never gets below 50F (around here).

D_&_T
11-02-2007, 09:04 PM
believe around here they us 1.5 or 2" foam board, but that been sometime since I have done concrete. couple winters ago we had frost line driven 4 foot down, a lot of sub zero temps with no snow to insulate the ground was freezing water and sewer lines

sunsetsammy
11-07-2007, 09:16 PM
I would have to say siting is critical for survival of these types of exotic plants, and siting is part of the equation to overwinter them successfully. If you plant a banana in a "lawn-lake" it will rot & die, no way around it - as would many other plants.

Hello Mr. Bungalow. Most of the year my lawn is fine. Its just those 2-3 months in the winter when it becomes swampy. I've considered building raised beds but I have SO many bananas now and more pups on the way.


In comparison, all the ones I have taken inside, put in the basement, or set in the garage have either died, rotted, or gotten seriously "leggy".

It seems to me, the more we "fuss" with musa basjoo moving plants inside & out, uprooting them and putting them in crawlspaces, and stressing it, the worse it performs. I

When we uproot and move them, you loose alot of growth the next season.

I know of a guy in Saltspring Island, BC who has large, majestic m. basjoos, and only protects them with bubble-wrap.

My limited experiences have been quite different. All the Basjoo's I've stored in the shed nearly doubled in size this summer and each has put out 3-5 pups that rival the mother plant's size from the previous summer. If they grow any faster I'm going to have to start a nursery. LOL :) I'm not saying one "should" dig up Basjoo, but just stating my experiences.

I've seen a few people in the area with enclosures built to protect their Basjoos but I've yet to see anyone leave them out unprotected. I've heard of others on Vancouver Island doing this and I have no doubt that the plants survive.

I am curious though. With a large plant, when the stem freezes to the ground how quickly does it come back in the spring? Does the plant grow larger each season. How long will it take for the plant to match it's previous seasons growth? My experiment last year with leaving one outside didn't produce much more height than last year. Maybe a couple inches taller at most.

The plants that I dug and replanted took off right away and 4-6 weeks later were looking very full and the bonus no loss of stem.

Anyway good discussion and I'd love to hear more of other's experiences.

Sam

mrbungalow
11-08-2007, 02:37 AM
That pretty much sums up what us in the north are trying to achieve: Stems increasing in height/size year after year, and eventually flowering.

Bananas grow fast, so now I am beeing a little detail-freak: A dug banana will spend lots of energy in the spring rebuilding its' rootmass. I want to address the problem of unwanted growth and distorted roots. The cells of Musa Basjoo are active at relatively low temperatures, and start growing at below 50 degrees F. The last thing you want is a suspended banana growing. (The reason why I don't store them in the garage or shed) The disturbed roots may also be a reason for all the pups you said came up. Bananas tend to pup when "picked on", pulling out even more energy from the corm. I am not saying my way is the only way here, If storing plants in a shed works well for you, then that's super. And the "digging and put in the shed method" is definately a proven winner for other types, such as Orinoco.

I still firmly believe in letting the plants stay in "their place" and not distorting the root-mass. Undisturbed roots should make for better growth in the spring. True, it's probably impossible to leave bananas unprotected all winter, but with some chicken fencing, hay, and about an hours work next years' growth will be secured.

sandy0225
11-14-2007, 03:25 PM
Well, I'm trying something a little different this year. A little "tweak" on my plastic leaf bag mulching trick. Here's what I did:

I cut the plants back to about 2 feet tall, or a little less, just a little bit higher than my big bags of leaves. Then I took 5-6 bags of leaves and put them around the stem, leaving a hole in the middle about 2 feet across where the stem is. Then I opened up a couple bags of dry leaves and loosely placed them around the stems in the center of the opening, and then mounded them up over the top of the cut stems. So there's a big circle of bags, and a BIG mound of leaves in the middle. Then I took cheap blue plastic tarp and fastened it over the entire thing. So now it looks like I have a huge blue puffball in the yard, in several locations.
NOTE TO SELF: NEXT YEAR SPRING FOR THE BROWN TARPS!!!!
I think it will be my most successful mulching job ever, what do you think?

the flying dutchman
11-14-2007, 06:06 PM
I have seen complete foam houses, even with a door in it to protect a
banana:)
Your method will work for sure but someone should invent something so
that it looks natural in the garden in the winter. I have not seen that yet.
So, come on you creative guys and gals:)

:0491:


Ron

Tangy
11-16-2007, 12:27 PM
Well, I'm trying something a little different this year. A little "tweak" on my plastic leaf bag mulching trick. Here's what I did:

I cut the plants back to about 2 feet tall, or a little less, just a little bit higher than my big bags of leaves. Then I took 5-6 bags of leaves and put them around the stem, leaving a hole in the middle about 2 feet across where the stem is. Then I opened up a couple bags of dry leaves and loosely placed them around the stems in the center of the opening, and then mounded them up over the top of the cut stems. So there's a big circle of bags, and a BIG mound of leaves in the middle. Then I took cheap blue plastic tarp and fastened it over the entire thing. So now it looks like I have a huge blue puffball in the yard, in several locations.
NOTE TO SELF: NEXT YEAR SPRING FOR THE BROWN TARPS!!!!
I think it will be my most successful mulching job ever, what do you think?

Sandy I think I did something similar to yout techinique.

I recommend a camoflague tarp......

Frost damage showing

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/mikemoran/DCP_0001-1.jpg

before chop

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/mikemoran/DCP_0004.jpg

after chop

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/mikemoran/DCP_0006.jpg

bags of leaves in place- 8 bags for 4 plants

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/mikemoran/DCP_0008-1.jpg

tarp in place

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/mikemoran/DCP_0010.jpg


I could not help it, I brought in my biggest basjoo and dwarf cavendish several weeks ago, so they are not in the photo. I had one small basjoo which after cutting off the leaves, i buried it entirely for an experiment.


:nanadrink: :nanadrink:

Viking
01-07-2008, 04:32 AM
I'm in the UK, and have always built a sort of hut around mine. I cut them back to about 36". I've got some wooden trellis which I staple hortuculturaral fleece to, tie four sections together, fill that with barley straw and then place a waterproof peaked roof over the whole thing. It ends up looking like a small Japanese building in the corner of the garden, but it's kept my basjoo alive for the last five years, even through a -7C frost.

ryanmarc
01-07-2008, 04:47 AM
"Has anyone ever tried to protect the psuedostem with a high R-factor fiberglass insulation? I may try this in conjunction with bags of leaves."

Fiberglass insulation, if it gets wet, will stay wet for a long time and would tend to rot a Pstem...unless you put the insulation in a plastic sleeve first to keep out the moisture. I wouldnt reccomend using fiberglass insulation, use straw, its cheaper and much more natural.

mskitty38583
01-07-2008, 09:07 AM
straw will also break down and it can be composted in the spring time. or you can pull it away from your nanas and just compost it where it lies. the bags of leaves can also be composted with the straw. less work on you and your trees will have compost.:exercise: :nanaruns: