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Cikas33
09-07-2014, 02:01 PM
I got Musa Pisang Ceylon.:08:
I think I'm the first to have this banana in Dubrovnik ( ordered from Germany ). ( June 3. 2014 )

http://s27.postimg.org/fay6xjspf/P6020636.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/gaoht97v7/P6020637.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/dppg6jugf/P6020638.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/gp3isz6a9/P6020639.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/gs5wxts59/P6020640.jpg

Cikas33
09-07-2014, 02:07 PM
It grows very fast even in pot. ( June 18. 2014 ):08:

http://s27.postimg.org/6yycphesz/P6170640.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/5cwkkc2lv/P6170641.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/g7im00b3n/P6170642.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/ar6qxcxg7/P6170643.jpg

Cikas33
09-07-2014, 02:16 PM
Waiting to be planted in the ground. ( July 12. 2014 )

http://s26.postimg.org/5v6ncdtc9/rsz_p7120010.jpg

http://s26.postimg.org/pr2mrxadl/rsz_p7120011.jpg

Planted in the ground, finally. Shows some sun damage, our mediterranean sun is quite strong. ( July 27. 2014 ):08::08::08:

http://s26.postimg.org/hcgnvod6x/rsz_p7210019.jpg

http://s26.postimg.org/xovaz5gw9/rsz_p7210020.jpg

Cikas33
09-07-2014, 02:27 PM
Withstands direct sunlight better and better as times goes. ( August 5. 2014 )

http://s26.postimg.org/74ef1pv49/rsz_p7310065.jpg

http://s26.postimg.org/o6793t9zd/rsz_p7310066.jpg

Begins to grow rapidly and get fat in stem. ( August 21. 2014 )

http://s24.postimg.org/jwskhn99x/rsz_p8120092.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/40ghke9pz/rsz_p8160078.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/iilwzwccp/rsz_p8160079.jpg

Cikas33
09-07-2014, 02:36 PM
I like the color of the stem. ( August 29. 2014 )

http://s3.postimg.org/sd6f6lifn/rsz_p8240073.jpg

http://s13.postimg.org/etq41wmbb/rsz_p8240074.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/x48m1dsjh/rsz_p8240075.jpg

Starts to outgrow my Archontophoenix alexandrae. ( September 4. 2014 ):08:

http://s24.postimg.org/7lmlwacv9/rsz_p9040077.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/ap6zts61z/rsz_p9040083.jpg

bananimal
09-07-2014, 09:07 PM
This is the first picture I've seen that matches up with the coloration of the leaf midribs of my Pisang Klotek. Maybe that's what it is more commonly called. Will look further into this - hvala Cikas!

Nicolas Naranja
09-10-2014, 08:35 PM
Just a few weeks away

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x455/NicolasNaranja/IMG_20140910_175924_zpsvoshgsbh.jpg (http://s1182.photobucket.com/user/NicolasNaranja/media/IMG_20140910_175924_zpsvoshgsbh.jpg.html)

Cikas33
09-11-2014, 12:16 PM
Wow, that's a lot of fruit.
I hope that my will be like that someday.

Cikas33
10-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Musa Pisang Ceylon is recovering from the storm with strong winds we had on September 22.

Few days ago..

http://s29.postimg.org/z9udg0lsn/rsz_pa010152.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/noei5soqx/rsz_pa010153.jpg

And today ( October 7. )

http://s30.postimg.org/ppcjarv29/rsz_pa070144.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/s0duufdjr/rsz_pa070145.jpg

http://s11.postimg.org/uanxnqiar/rsz_pa070146.jpg

Cikas33
10-17-2014, 01:15 PM
Small update ( October 16. ):08:

http://s30.postimg.org/ii53onltt/rsz_pa120149.jpg

PR-Giants
10-18-2014, 12:04 PM
October 18:08:

If you're lucky your Mysore might look like this.

:woohoonaner:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56930 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56930)

Cikas33
10-18-2014, 12:59 PM
Wow that is a huge banana bunch.:eek:
Looking great.:bananas_b

Cikas33
10-20-2014, 06:09 PM
Update ( October 20. ):08:

http://s15.postimg.org/k581s0cor/rsz_1pa180142.jpg

Cikas33
10-24-2014, 11:28 AM
First pup finally ( October 24. ):08::08::08:

http://s27.postimg.org/w5vkdpxub/rsz_pa240140.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/5imhb82yd/rsz_pa240142.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/r3h1efs19/rsz_pa240143.jpg

http://s10.postimg.org/jmhu6xzhl/rsz_pa240151.jpg

Cikas33
11-08-2014, 01:35 PM
On the weather in the Mediterranean these days influences hurricane, which formed here. That is very, very strange formation for Mediterranean.

But my Musa Pisang Ceylon survived just fine strong winds we had these few days, and growing strong ( November 8. 2014. ).

http://s30.postimg.org/v77ebsrf5/10437767_856138777750672_2845799178947975773_n.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/c31t5gwsj/rsz_pb080154.jpg

Cikas33
11-17-2014, 12:33 PM
With each new leaf, my Musa Pisang Ceylon have more pronounced variegata characteristics.
Strange...( November 17. 2014. )

http://s8.postimg.org/5vddabzc5/rsz_pb170153.jpg

Also pup is biger now.:08:

http://s27.postimg.org/bwpzp4jr7/rsz_pb170151.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/k4suivqrb/rsz_pb170152.jpg

Richard
11-17-2014, 05:35 PM
Mine produces pups on a regular basis. I don't have any leaf variegation though. The diameter near the base is 6" and the pstem is around 6'.

PR-Giants
11-17-2014, 06:42 PM
Your variegata looks like BSV or CMV.

If allowed it will continue to become more pronounced.



With each new leaf, my Musa Pisang Ceylon have more pronounced variegata characteristics.
Strange...( November 17. 2014. )

http://s8.postimg.org/5vddabzc5/rsz_pb170153.jpg

Cikas33
11-17-2014, 07:02 PM
Musa Pisang Ceylon is improved Musa Mysore for the reason.
It is immune to BSV.

robguz24
11-17-2014, 07:06 PM
Looks just like the BSV on all my Mysores.

PR-Giants
11-17-2014, 07:10 PM
It is immune to BSV.

Good Luck with that thought.

Cikas33
11-17-2014, 07:11 PM
Looks just like the BSV on all my Mysores.

This is not Mysore.

Musa Pisang Ceylon is different cultivar ( within Mysore subgroup ). Designed specifically to be resistant to BSV.

PR-Giants
11-17-2014, 07:13 PM
Looks just like the BSV on all my Mysores.

Do you keep the plants or destroy them?

PR-Giants
11-17-2014, 07:15 PM
This is not Mysore.

Musa Pisang Ceylon is different cultivar. Designed specifically to be resistant to BSV.

Really? :woohoonaner:

Cikas33
11-17-2014, 07:16 PM
Really? :woohoonaner:

Yes, really.:08:

The Improvement and Testing of Musa - Google Knjige (http://books.google.hr/books?id=brjfUhutOK4C&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=musa+pisang+ceylon+AND+bsv&source=bl&ots=uWynzrEXX6&sig=JUlForgFTBoAQ2K15dPABt5czu0&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)

http://core.kmi.open.ac.uk/download/pdf/12104267.pdf

http://iita.titaninternet.co.uk/cms/details/virology/pdf_files/440-448.pdf

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FMikhail_Pooggi n%2Fpublication%2F7949557_Characterisation_of_Banana_streak_Myso re_virus_and_evidence_that_its_DNA_is_integrated_in_the_B_genome _of_cultivated_Musa%2Flinks%2F53da1bc10cf2a19eee882360&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&usg=AFQjCNEguBsGtlfPlyaL1Vfp_eko82FEaQ&sig2=dbMbtOG1tauki-sXZnWrqQ&bvm=bv.79908130,d.bGQ

Richard
11-17-2014, 09:19 PM
Could be nitrogen deficiency, alkaloid mineral overload, water stress, or natural variation.

robguz24
11-17-2014, 10:13 PM
Do you keep the plants or destroy them?
I keep them. Seems to be pretty minor and exclusive to the Mysores. I'd get PC or PK instead if I could get my hands on them.

Richard
11-17-2014, 11:04 PM
... I'd get PC or PK ...

?? We're talking about Pisang Ceylon here, which PC or PK are you referring to??

PR-Giants
11-18-2014, 08:01 AM
It's a virus, go beyond just looking at the color and pattern of the variegata.

Could be nitrogen deficiency, alkaloid mineral overload, water stress, or natural variation.

Nicolas Naranja
11-18-2014, 09:59 AM
Even if it isn't BSV it could still be CMV. If you have squash or dayflower you could easily get it.

Cikas33
11-18-2014, 10:43 AM
I do not know what causes variegation on my Musa Pisang Ceylon.

But it can not be BSV. The main purpose of ''Pisang Ceylon'' cultivar is to be resistant to BSV.

I do not have squashes or dayflowers in my garden. That garden where bananas are planted is for decoration only. Other plants there are mainly palms, aroids, yucca species, cycads, strelitzia species ect..

This is older photo of my upper garden ( plants are much bigger now ).

http://s30.postimg.org/5jgwgqhyp/rsz_p9160129.jpg

I actually like variegata look of my ''Pisang Ceylon''.

It grows fast, it is healthy, it looks great. I am pleased.:08:

Cikas33
11-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Mine produces pups on a regular basis. I don't have any leaf variegation though. The diameter near the base is 6" and the pstem is around 6'.

Mine also has very thick base. It is hard to capture that on photos, on photos everything looks smaller.

Mine only has one pup so far ( I hope for more ). I really like the look of ''Pisang Ceylon'' ( very colorful variety ).

My favorite musa variety of all I have.:08:

http://s28.postimg.org/x6lfbjc4t/rsz_pb050161.jpg

Richard
11-18-2014, 11:35 AM
It's a beautiful garden. :)

robguz24
11-18-2014, 12:02 PM
?? We're talking about Pisang Ceylon here, which PC or PK are you referring to??
I meant Pisang Ceylon and Klotek, which I thought were both supposed to be BSV free and nearly the same at Mysore.

PR-Giants
11-18-2014, 01:09 PM
Even if it isn't BSV it could still be CMV. If you have squash or dayflower you could easily get it.

I would suspect CMV, but there's a high demand for both of those viruses in the hobby market. Many hobbyists really enjoy the variegata look and will frequently pay over $100 on eBay, to add either infection to their collection. :08:

Cikas33
12-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Small update ( December 8. ):08:

http://s23.postimg.org/bmctqkt6z/rsz_pc080156.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/lspyzu3c7/rsz_pc080157.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/fanq157w1/rsz_pc080155.jpg

Julian
12-11-2014, 12:48 AM
This is not Mysore.

Musa Pisang Ceylon is different cultivar ( within Mysore subgroup ). Designed specifically to be resistant to BSV.

Who is the designer? It does not come with BSV but I am wondering if you can still catch it?

Cikas33
12-12-2014, 12:40 PM
Who is the designer? It does not come with BSV but I am wondering if you can still catch it?

No, because it is resistant. It is immune to the BSV.

Plan was to replace all Musa Mysore with Musa Pisang Ceylon. :)

CountryBoy1981
12-12-2014, 03:11 PM
No, because it is resistant. It is immune to the BSV.

Plan was to replace all Musa Mysore with Musa Pisang Ceylon. :)

Resistant does not equal immune.

Cikas33
12-12-2014, 03:17 PM
Resistant does not equal immune.

It is the same.

Hammocked Banana
12-13-2014, 11:42 AM
Resistant means that is generally less susceptible to getting the disease. Immune means it could never get it.

Cikas33
12-13-2014, 11:59 AM
Resistant means that is generally less susceptible to getting the disease.
Immune means it could never get it.


Immunity by definition is a disease resistance. immune is the same as resistant. :)

Immunity, resistance of an organism to infection or disease

Immunity ( immunitatem ) is a word of latin origin, and basically means resistance

Hammocked Banana
12-13-2014, 12:32 PM
Immunity means resisance, but resistance does not necessarily mean immunity.

Richard
12-14-2014, 01:33 AM
Immune - Merriam Webster (http://i.word.com/idictionary/immune)

: not capable of being affected by a disease

: not influenced or affected by something

: having special protection from something that is required for most people by law

PR-Giants
12-14-2014, 11:49 AM
Who is the designer? It does not come with BSV but I am wondering if you can still catch it?


BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

Cavendish can catch BSMysV, which is severe compared to BSVCav.

PR-Giants
12-14-2014, 11:57 AM
Immunity means resisance, but resistance does not necessarily mean immunity.

I agree, there are different levels to resistant.

HR - Highly Resistant

PR - Partially Resistant

I've never seen "Partially Immune" written in any journals. :ha:

Cikas33
12-14-2014, 01:54 PM
Immunity means resisance, but resistance does not necessarily mean immunity.

Immune - Merriam Webster (http://i.word.com/idictionary/immune)

: not capable of being affected by a disease

: not influenced or affected by something

: having special protection from something that is required for most people by law

As an medical technician and someone who is studying biology in college, I know what immune means. :)

Immunity, resistance of an organism to infection or disease

Resistent = immune

Partially resistant ( Half resistant ) = Partially Immune

When I speak about Pisang Ceylon, this specific cultivar can not be infected with BSV.

More about Pisang Ceylon in this articles.


The Improvement and Testing of Musa - Google Knjige (http://books.google.hr/books?id=brjfUhutOK4C&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=musa+pisang+ceylon+AND+bsv&source=bl&ots=uWynzrEXX6&sig=JUlForgFTBoAQ2K15dPABt5czu0&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)

http://core.kmi.open.ac.uk/download/pdf/12104267.pdf

http://iita.titaninternet.co.uk/cms/details/virology/pdf_files/440-448.pdf

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FMikhail_Pooggi n%2Fpublication%2F7949557_Characterisation_of_Banana_streak_Myso re_virus_and_evidence_that_its_DNA_is_integrated_in_the_B_genome _of_cultivated_Musa%2Flinks%2F53da1bc10cf2a19eee882360&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&usg=AFQjCNEguBsGtlfPlyaL1Vfp_eko82FEaQ&sig2=dbMbtOG1tauki-sXZnWrqQ&bvm=bv.79908130,d.bGQ

Cikas33
12-14-2014, 01:56 PM
I agree, there are different levels to resistant.

HR - Highly Resistant

PR - Partially Resistant

I've never seen "Partially Immune" written in any journals. :ha:

Actually "Partially Immune" is a term that exist in biology and medicine.:waving:

BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

Cavendish can catch BSMysV, which is severe compared to BSVCav.

It is not.:03:

It is integrated in the genome of Musa Mysore. Musa Pisang Ceylon is free of that virus in its genes. That is one of the major difference between Mysore and Pisang Ceylon.

Musa Pisang Ceylon is developed specifically to be resistant. It has been tested in laboratories. All deliberate attempts to cause infection of BSV on Musa Pisang Ceylon in the laboratories were unsuccessful. So it is proven that Pisang Ceylon can not be infected.

Musa Pisang Ceylon is improved cultivar from Musa Mysore. In Asia, they intend to replace all Mysore with Pisang Ceylon.

Julian
12-14-2014, 03:05 PM
Musa Pisang Ceylon is developed specifically to be resistant. It has been tested in laboratories. All deliberate attempts to cause infection of BSV on Musa Pisang Ceylon in the laboratories were unsuccessful. .

Who developed it. Can you post your resource for this info? I would be interested.

Cikas33
12-14-2014, 03:17 PM
Who developed it. Can you post your resource for this info? I would be interested.


I've already put articles about Musa Pisang Ceylon in this post. :)

http://www.bananas.org/254878-post47.html

PR-Giants
12-14-2014, 06:33 PM
Actually "Partially Immune" is a term that exist in biology and medicine.:waving:


OK, it may be a term that exist in biology and medicine.:waving:, but it still isn't a term I've seen written in any journals about bananas.:08:



It is not.:03:

It is integrated in the genome of Musa Mysore. Musa Pisang Ceylon is free of that virus in its genes. That is one of the major difference between Mysore and Pisang Ceylon.


:2787::woohoonaner::2787:

Read the links that you posted and you will see that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.



The Improvement and Testing of Musa - Google Knjige (http://books.google.hr/books?id=brjfUhutOK4C&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=musa+pisang+ceylon+AND+bsv&source=bl&ots=uWynzrEXX6&sig=JUlForgFTBoAQ2K15dPABt5czu0&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)

http://core.kmi.open.ac.uk/download/pdf/12104267.pdf

http://iita.titaninternet.co.uk/cms/details/virology/pdf_files/440-448.pdf

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FMikhail_Pooggi n%2Fpublication%2F7949557_Characterisation_of_Banana_streak_Myso re_virus_and_evidence_that_its_DNA_is_integrated_in_the_B_genome _of_cultivated_Musa%2Flinks%2F53da1bc10cf2a19eee882360&ei=f41qVPq4IMGBywOe4YCgAg&usg=AFQjCNEguBsGtlfPlyaL1Vfp_eko82FEaQ&sig2=dbMbtOG1tauki-sXZnWrqQ&bvm=bv.79908130,d.bGQ

Julian
12-15-2014, 04:10 AM
I've already put articles about Musa Pisang Ceylon in this post. :)

http://www.bananas.org/254878-post47.html

That's a bit much to read through. Lazy, yeah… Could you just say developed Ceylon? Thank you

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 08:57 AM
OK, it may be a term that exist in biology and medicine.:waving:, but it still isn't a term I've seen written in any journals about bananas.:08:


That really does not matter anything.





Read the links that you posted and you will see that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

Really!?

http://s3.postimg.org/4ucq1qcdv/Screen_Shot005.png

Julian
12-15-2014, 10:39 AM
http://s3.postimg.org/4ucq1qcdv/Screen_Shot005.png[/QUOTE]

Does not sound like anyone designed it.

siege2050
12-15-2014, 01:11 PM
Resistant and immune are two different things, I have Double Knock Out roses that are resistant to Black Spot disease, yet every year they do get a little Black Spot. They just look better, and dont defoliate as bad as other roses do. I could tell your banana was virused in the earlier posts before you mentioned the variegation. Its very disappointing to get a virused plant, I know I have bought Cannas that have been virused and had to discard them. Pisang Ceylon may be resistant to this virus, but factors like being stressed, and weakened can make it susceptible to being infected, because it is not fully immune, just resistant. Some plants can be carriers of a virus with the virus dormant. When the plant is stressed by cold or some other factor, the virus surfaces even though the plant never had symptoms before. I have seen this with Cannas, and also with colocasia with feathery mottle virus. Nobody is trying to put down your plant, but you need to be aware of it. If you have other bananas in your collection they may also be infected if the two plants have common pests, or you use the same cutting tools on them. I am not saying to destroy it, but at least dont use unsanitized cutting tools on it and then others in your collection. And be aware that during this time, sucking insects may spread the virus to your uninfected bananas. Good luck.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 01:53 PM
Resistant and immune are two different things, I have Double Knock Out roses that are resistant to Black Spot disease, yet every year they do get a little Black Spot. They just look better, and dont defoliate as bad as other roses do. I could tell your banana was virused in the earlier posts before you mentioned the variegation. Its very disappointing to get a virused plant, I know I have bought Cannas that have been virused and had to discard them. Pisang Ceylon may be resistant to this virus, but factors like being stressed, and weakened can make it susceptible to being infected, because it is not fully immune, just resistant. Some plants can be carriers of a virus with the virus dormant. When the plant is stressed by cold or some other factor, the virus surfaces even though the plant never had symptoms before. I have seen this with Cannas, and also with colocasia with feathery mottle virus. Nobody is trying to put down your plant, but you need to be aware of it. If you have other bananas in your collection they may also be infected if the two plants have common pests, or you use the same cutting tools on them. I am not saying to destroy it, but at least dont use unsanitized cutting tools on it and then others in your collection. And be aware that during this time, sucking insects may spread the virus to your uninfected bananas. Good luck.

Like I said, Resistant and immune is the same.

You are speaking about partial immunity or partial resistance. :)

Animals and plants with partial immunity or partial resistance can get diseases in weakened form.

Pisang Ceylon is immune. It can not get that virus. There is no recorded case of Pisang Ceylon with BSV. Deliberate attempts to cause infection were unsuccessful

That is the whole point of that cultivar and main difference from Mysore.

Like I said biology and medicine is my field. :)
http://s10.postimg.org/t60uwh2ft/Screen_Shot005.png

''Immune'' is only official term for plant and animal disease resistance.

Your roses are not resistant, they are just partially resistant if they show symptoms of the disease.

siege2050
12-15-2014, 02:05 PM
There are a lot of people that would argue with you about your idea of resistance and immunity lol. But lets move on to the next possibility. Perhaps it is not a Pisang Ceylon, how similar are standard Mysore to Pisang Ceylon, can they be mistaken? Maybe you were sold a Mysore instead, it happens all the time with bananas. I ordered a Dwarf Cavendish once, and it is most definitely a Super Dwarf instead.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 02:14 PM
Some more.:08:

http://s13.postimg.org/v1cw7iwhz/Screen_Shot011.png

Richard
12-15-2014, 02:15 PM
It's also a beautiful plant that grows well here 5 miles from the cool Pacific coast in zone 10b. It's not as stocky as Namwa and needs a bit more support, but otherwise trouble-free in my location.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 02:20 PM
There are a lot of people that would argue with you about your idea of resistance and immunity lol. But lets move on to the next possibility. Perhaps it is not a Pisang Ceylon, how similar are standard Mysore to Pisang Ceylon, can they be mistaken? Maybe you were sold a Mysore instead, it happens all the time with bananas. I ordered a Dwarf Cavendish once, and it is most definitely a Super Dwarf instead.

It is not my idea. It is something that I learned on college.
But it seems that some people are confused with these terms.

Pisang Ceylon and Mysore look identical. Their difference is not in appearance, but in resistance.

I bought my banana from a trusted vendor.

Richard
12-15-2014, 02:24 PM
I'd like to hear more from people about their experiences growing the plant and their perception of the taste of the fruit.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 02:36 PM
It's also a beautiful plant that grows well here 5 miles from the cool Pacific coast in zone 10b. It's not as stocky as Namwa and needs a bit more support, but otherwise trouble-free in my location.

I agree. It is very beautiful musa. I like that bronze color of Pisang Ceylon.
It looks very different from other musa cultivars I have.

PR-Giants
12-15-2014, 02:59 PM
:2787::woohoonaner::2787:

Read the links that you posted and you will see that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.


Really!?

http://s3.postimg.org/4ucq1qcdv/Screen_Shot005.png

Don't be silly. :waving:

That paper was written over 20 years ago. :lurk:

Look through your links for a paper titled


"Characterisation of Banana streak Mysore virus and evidence

that its DNA is integrated in the B genome of cultivated Musa"



"We did not include cv. ‘Mysore’ in our Southern hybridisation assay, but based on the results obtained using

cv. ‘Pisang Ceylan’

a member of the Mysore subgroup of cultivars, it is likely that BSMysV DNA is also integrated in the genome of cv. ‘Mysore’."



Benham E. L. Lockhart : Department of Plant Pathology : University of Minnesota (http://plpa.cfans.umn.edu/People/Faculty/BenhamELLockhart/)

Southern blotting was named after Edward M. Southern who developed this procedure at Edinburgh University.

PR-Giants
12-15-2014, 03:11 PM
When you see FHIA-07 & 09, you should realize you chart is old. :ha::ha::ha:


Like I said, Resistant and immune is the same.

You are speaking about partial immunity or partial resistance. :)

Animals and plants with partial immunity or partial resistance can get diseases in weakened form.

Pisang Ceylon is immune. It can not get that virus. There is no recorded case of Pisang Ceylon with BSV. Deliberate attempts to cause infection were unsuccessful

That is the whole point of that cultivar and main difference from Mysore.

Like I said biology and medicine is my field. :)
http://s10.postimg.org/t60uwh2ft/Screen_Shot005.png

''Immune'' is only official term for plant and animal disease resistance.

Your roses are not resistant, they are just partially resistant if they show symptoms of the disease.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 03:29 PM
When you see FHIA-07 & 09, you should realize you chart is old. :ha::ha::ha:

It is not important how old it is or not.

It is a valid genetic test. Test showed that Pisang Ceylon is negative. It is free of BSV in its genome.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 03:34 PM
Another genetic test...

http://s9.postimg.org/x69pfcn3j/Screen_Shot004.png

PR-Giants
12-15-2014, 06:31 PM
It is not important how old it is or not.

It is a valid genetic test. Test showed that Pisang Ceylon is negative. It is free of BSV in its genome.

Actually it is important because the testing procedures became more accurate.

You keep posting charts based on the old test results done by Dr. Ben Lockhart (http://plpa.cfans.umn.edu/People/Faculty/BenhamELLockhart/), who is also credited with improving the testing procedure and published a paper a decade later confirming that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.



:2787::woohoonaner::2787:

Read the links that you posted and you will see that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.


Really!?

http://s3.postimg.org/4ucq1qcdv/Screen_Shot005.png

Don't be silly. :waving:

That paper was written over 20 years ago. :lurk:

Look through your links for a paper titled


"Characterisation of Banana streak Mysore virus and evidence

that its DNA is integrated in the B genome of cultivated Musa"



"We did not include cv. ‘Mysore’ in our Southern hybridisation assay, but based on the results obtained using

cv. ‘Pisang Ceylan’

a member of the Mysore subgroup of cultivars, it is likely that BSMysV DNA is also integrated in the genome of cv. ‘Mysore’."



Benham E. L. Lockhart : Department of Plant Pathology : University of Minnesota (http://plpa.cfans.umn.edu/People/Faculty/BenhamELLockhart/)

Southern blotting was named after Edward M. Southern who developed this procedure at Edinburgh University.

Cikas33
12-15-2014, 08:20 PM
Actually it is important because the testing procedures became more accurate.

You keep posting charts based on the old test results done by Dr. Ben Lockhart (http://plpa.cfans.umn.edu/People/Faculty/BenhamELLockhart/), who is also credited with improving the testing procedure and published a paper a decade later confirming that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.




Nope, my charts came from 3 different sources.:waving::drum:

That chart above is from 2000. Done by ''International Institute of Tropical Agriculture'' ( from Nigeria ) with assistance of Jonathan H. Crouch.:08:

Chart before that one is from 2003. Belgium research.:goteam:


So all testing confirmed that Pisang Ceylon does not have parts of BSV in its genome, but one that used tissue culture plant in one hybridization process ( and it is also stated that tissue culture plants can easily be contaminated with BSV genes in the process of creating them, so all new synthetic hybrids have BSV in genes ). Also that article from 2005. is not about Pisang Ceylon, but about Mysore ( to explore why this cultivar is so susceptible to BSV ). That whole sentence was pulled out of the contest by you ( as stated in article all Mysore bananas are sick, it was impossible to find healthy one, but Pisang Ceylon is healthy, so that plant is used in hybridization process ).
Also acording to that 2005 article BSV genese are in genome of all musa hybrid cultivars with ''B'' chromosomes ( so according to them all AAB, AABB, AAAB, ABB musa cultivars have parts of BSV genome integrated in their genome ).

And what is the most important, Pisang Ceylon is immune to BSV. In all tests it never express BSV.:bananas_b

Also, as I can see, this debate is not going anywhere. I would like to return on the topic. And that is progress of my Musa Pisang Ceylon... thank you..:03:

PR-Giants
12-18-2014, 11:05 AM
Also, as I can see, this debate is not going anywhere.

Don't be silly, this was never a debate. :waving::goteam::goteam::ha::ha::ha:

The debate ended a decade ago when they discovered that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

That's why you've been unable to find current data to support your beliefs and have had to resort to using the old data.

:ha::ha::ha:


Nope, my charts came from 3 different sources.

At least you were able to realize that your sources used the old testing procedure. :goteam::goteam:



That whole sentence was pulled out of the contest by you ( as stated in article all Mysore bananas are sick, it was impossible to find healthy one, but Pisang Ceylon is healthy, so that plant is used in hybridization process ).

Nothing I wrote was taken out of context.

Their reasoning for not using a cv 'Mysore' does not change the fact that the

cv 'Pisang Ceylan' tested positive for having the BSMysV integrated in it's genome.

How you interpreted "as healthy plants were not available" is comical. :ha::lurk::08:

All cv 'Mysore' bananas are not sick.

The Mysores in their possession had already expressed symptoms.



http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57150 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57150)



thank you..:03:

:waving::waving::waving: de nada :waving::waving::waving:

Cikas33
12-18-2014, 11:39 AM
Don't be silly, this was never a debate. :waving::goteam::goteam::ha::ha::ha:
The debate ended a decade ago when they discovered that BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.
That's why you've been unable to find current data to support your beliefs and have had to resort to using the old data.
:ha::ha::ha:
At least you were able to realize that your sources used the old testing procedure. :goteam::goteam:
Nothing I wrote was taken out of context.

Their reasoning for not using a cv 'Mysore' does not change the fact that the

cv 'Pisang Ceylan' tested positive for having the BSMysV integrated in it's genome.
How you interpreted "as healthy plants were not available" is comical. :ha::lurk::08:
All cv 'Mysore' bananas are not sick.
The Mysores in their possession had already expressed symptoms.



http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57150 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57150)
:waving::waving::waving: de nada :waving::waving::waving:

I agree, it is not debate when one persons constantly trolls topics and impose just their opinion on others.
I already said what I had to say, and I stand behind each of my statements.

So there is no need for me to repeat everything all over again to person that hears only itself.
So yes..:waving::waving::waving:

PR-Giants
12-18-2014, 08:00 PM
I agree

If you had stopped there, you would have been correct.

I doubt you're really a biologist, but if you are then you gotta be the world's dumbest biologist.

Try to understand this.

It is common knowledge in the scientific community that the BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

I speak with many banana scientists on a regular basis and when I have a question I call an expert. I've spoken with some of the scientists that wrote the papers you're quoting from and what I wrote is not my opinion, it's just the facts.

Cikas33
12-18-2014, 09:39 PM
If you had stopped there, you would have been correct.

I doubt you're really a biologist, but if you are then you gotta be the world's dumbest biologist.

Try to understand this.

It is common knowledge in the scientific community that the BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.

I speak with many banana scientists on a regular basis and when I have a question I call an expert. I've spoken with some of the scientists that wrote the papers you're quoting from and what I wrote is not my opinion, it's just the facts.

Now you started to insult to. Very classy of you.:nanadrink:

I really do not care do you belive me or not. I do not belive anything you said without a proof.:waving:

To something be proven scientific fact, one research is not enough. Research must be repeated at least in one different laboratory with a different team of scientists. If different team receives the same results, then we can speak about facts.

In science everything must be repeated to be confirmed.

You there have only one test, not confirmed with other laboratory.
All other tests had different result. For example test done in Belgium only one year earlier.

Also that test did not even confirmed that Mysore has BSMysV is integrated in the genome ( they did not even use Mysore ). Also that test did not even show that BSMysV genome as a whole is integrated in musa genes, only small portions ( fragments ) of BSMysV genome.

Also like I said they used Tissue culture plants ( method that is the main cause for BSV spreading ):lurk:

As for Mysore. All Mysore plants are sick. All of them have episomal ( dormant ) BSV in cells. But not all of them express BSV symptoms. And not all of them equally strong symptoms.
A healthy, uninfected Musa Mysore does not exist.

http://s2.postimg.org/ynzw9fzwp/Screen_Shot004.png
http://s21.postimg.org/96iwt5cw7/Screen_Shot006.png

But I'm glad you finally realized and learned that Musa Mysore and Musa Pisang Ceylon are two different cultivars.:08:

harveyc
12-18-2014, 10:37 PM
Please be civil in the discussions on this and other topics.

Also, consider if your post is really accomplishing anything more at this point or just entrenching further to continue arguing. Points seem to have been made already and no progress seems likely, so it appears to just drop it.

Also, definitely no name-calling. Got it?

Cikas33
12-19-2014, 11:52 AM
They are looking good considering that Christmas is just around the corner ( December 19. ):woohoonaner:

http://s10.postimg.org/rlehdekqx/rsz_pc190161.jpg

http://s11.postimg.org/4rpr9gob7/rsz_pc190153.jpg

http://s13.postimg.org/c7urlj57r/rsz_pc190154.jpg

PR-Giants
12-19-2014, 01:01 PM
'Goldfinger' has BSV in it's genome because it is an AAAB. Every single B genome tested so far has BSV sequences, even wild M. balbisiana. Every single edible banana with a B genome also has it. There are even some integrated virus sequences in M. acuminata. It is more a matter of if it is expressed or not.

As of 2014, it is still common knowledge in the scientific community that the BSMysV is integrated in the genome of the Pisang Ceylan.




In science everything must be repeated to be confirmed..

The tests have been repeated and confirmed many times over the past decade.




A healthy, uninfected Musa Mysore does not exist.

But I'm glad you finally realized and learned that Musa Mysore and Musa Pisang Ceylon are two different cultivars.

I grow the 'Pisang Ceylan', 'Mysore', and other cultivars in the Mysore subgroup, all of them have been healthy and none have ever expressed symptoms, but they all still have the BSMysV integrated in their genome.

PR-Giants
01-12-2015, 07:34 PM
Pisang Ceylon is immune. It can not get that virus. There is no recorded case of Pisang Ceylon with BSV. Deliberate attempts to cause infection were unsuccessful


Like I said biology and medicine is my field. :)



2015 Update

I had a follow up conversation this morning with the virologist that conducted the tests in many of those studies. The main discussion pertained to the FHIA-21, but I did ask "can a tissue cultured Pisang Ceylan express BSMysV ?"

Answer : "It can and it has."



The more generations you get beyond the tissue culture event, the lower your risks become.

When purchasing a banana with a B genome, a pup is a better choice than a tissue culture, in regards to Banana Streak Virus.


I am very happy with the bunch produced by the Mysore pup I received. :08:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57091 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57091)

Cikas33
01-13-2015, 08:24 PM
Any actual proof of that?
We only have your word.

I only belive in proofs. And there is no a single recorded case of Pisang Ceylon with BSV.
In fact, all tests showed that Pisang Ceylon never express BSV. Pisang Ceylon does not have episomal BSV in cells.

In other hand all Mysore plants have episomal ( dormant ) BSV in cells. That is not the same as parts of BSV genes in musa genes. Mysore has both parts of BSV in genes and episomal ( dormant ) BSV in cells.
It means that all Mysore have actual virus in cells ( not just genes ). So all Mysore are sick. Because all of them are the same sick clone.
Just not all of them equally strong in expressing symptoms. Just like Herpes simpleks in humans. Most humans have Herpes simpleks virus. But they express symptoms only when immune system is weakened.

BSV is not lethal for Mysore. In most cases it only reduce yield for 5-30%.
So it is only problem for commercial growers.

Your Mysore is also sick ( like all other ). Just not expressing symptoms strong. If there are no obvious symptoms, it does not mean that plant is not sick ( contaminated ).

Cikas33
01-13-2015, 08:44 PM
Two different things...


Episomal latency refers to the use of genetic episomes during latency. In this type, viral genes are stabilized floating in the cytoplasm or nucleus as distinct objects, both as linear or lariat structures. Episomal latency is more vulnerable to ribozymes or host foreign gene degradation than provirus latency.


Proviral latency
A provirus is a virus genome that is integrated into the DNA of a host cell.

Advantages include automatic host cell division results in replication of the virus's genes, and the fact that it is nearly impossible to remove an integrated provirus from an infected cell without killing the cell.[

Disadvantages include the need to enter the nucleus (and the need for packaging proteins that will allow for that) and increased difficulty in maintaining the latency.

Musa Mysore has both.


Episomes

In prokaryotes, plasmids which are capable of integrating into the chromosome are called episomes. The integrative plasmids may be replicated and stably maintained in a cell through multiple generations, but always at some stage they exist as an independent plasmid molecule.

You are confusing two different things.


According to research. Most Musa types have parts of BSV genes in their genes. But only small number of them have Episomal virus in cells. Episomal virus is the problem in Mysore, not parts of BSV in Mysore genes. Because there is still no proof that parts of BSV genes in Musa genes can cause actual BSV ( parts of BSV genes are only that, parts, not whole genome ). Only theories exists.

But Episomal BSV will cause BSV symptoms, it is only matter of time.

PR-Giants
01-14-2015, 11:40 PM
If your Pisang Ceylon was really a Magical Mysore, wouldn't you expect the United States Tropical Agricultural Research Station to distribute the Pisang Ceylon to the farmers instead of the Mysore that tested positive to BSV.

Don't let common sense influence your beliefs.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57083 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57083)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57082 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57082)

Richard
05-12-2015, 08:51 PM
Flag leaf on my Pisang Ceylon!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57812&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57812)

Richard
05-29-2015, 11:49 AM
... and here's the flower bud, heading out over the roof :2141:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57955&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57955)

Lau
05-29-2015, 04:32 PM
Very nice. :goteam:

Richard
05-31-2015, 03:21 PM
Cross-tied my Pisang Ceylon so the emerging bud will avoid the roof top.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57971&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57971)

Hammocked Banana
05-31-2015, 05:24 PM
Looks like there is some significant flex on that bottom strap. Would hate for it to break over away from the house either.

PR-Giants
05-31-2015, 06:03 PM
Looks more Wile E. than MacGyver.

Next time ask for help in the Main Banana Discussion (http://www.bananas.org/f2/) and then wait for an experienced members of this site to chime in.
:lurk:



Cross-tied my Pisang Ceylon so the emerging bud will avoid the roof top.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57971&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57971)

Richard
05-31-2015, 06:25 PM
Looks like there is some significant flex on that bottom strap. Would hate for it to break over away from the house either.
Me either. Both straps have flexibility.

Looks more Wile E. than MacGyver.
Next time ask for help in the Main Banana Discussion (http://www.bananas.org/f2/) and then wait for an experienced members of this site to chime in.

:ha: :08: :0489: :ha: :rollerbananadone: :2748: :ha: :2783: :nanablowskisses: :ha: :nanerwizard: :bananas_j :ha:

Richard
09-18-2015, 11:59 PM
Just removed the bunch from my Pisang Ceylon and hung in the garage to ripen.
:woohoonaner:

Mark Dragt
09-19-2015, 12:11 AM
Just removed the bunch from my Pisang Ceylon and hung in the garage to ripen.
:woohoonaner:

That's great Richard! Let us know how they taste. How is the other bunch coming along?
:08:

crazy banana
09-19-2015, 02:01 AM
Just removed the bunch from my Pisang Ceylon and hung in the garage to ripen.
:woohoonaner:

After only 4 month? Remarkable.

Richard
09-19-2015, 04:08 PM
That's great Richard! Let us know how they taste. How is the other bunch coming along?
:08:

The other bunches :)
I ate the Brazilians last week. The temple and namwah's still have a way to go.

Mark Dragt
09-20-2015, 10:39 AM
The other bunches :)
I ate the Brazilians last week. The temple and namwah's still have a way to go.

That's just great! I am crossing my fingers and hoping for a bunch or two next year.
:08:

Going Bananas
09-21-2015, 03:49 PM
This is the first picture I've seen that matches up with the coloration of the leaf midribs of my Pisang Klotek. Maybe that's what it is more commonly called. Will look further into this - hvala Cikas!

I agree!:bananas_b
The pseudotem and unopened new leaf looks
like a carbon copy of the PKlotek.
Richard you have one as well?
Does the PCeylon taste like a PKlotek?

venturabananas
09-22-2015, 12:51 AM
Does the PCeylon taste like a PKlotek?

Yes, the are indistinguishable in flavor and plant appearance to me. I planted each of these two varieties in a single hole and they are so similar that now, a few years down the road, I can no longer figure out which p-stem is from which plant. If they truly are different varieties and not just different local names for the same plant (which is what I suspect), the difference between the two is very subtle.

crazy banana
09-22-2015, 02:31 AM
Yes, the are indistinguishable in flavor and plant appearance to me. I planted each of these two varieties in a single hole and they are so similar that now, a few years down the road, I can no longer figure out which p-stem is from which plant. If they truly are different varieties and not just different local names for the same plant (which is what I suspect), the difference between the two is very subtle.
I grow Pisang Ceylon as well as Pisang Klotek under the same conditions.
My observations:
1) Pisang Klotek easily grows taller than 15' before flowering compared to Pisang Ceylon which consistently flowers around 10' to 12'
2) Pisang Klotek is probably the slowest grower in my yard, Pisang Ceylon can grow from spear pup to inflorescence in one season
3) Pisang Klotek does not produce many pups while my Pisang Ceylon mat constantly produces pups
4) Pisang Klotek produces bigger bunches (more fruits) but smaller fruits than the Pisang Ceylon

I agree that probably it would be hard to distinguish both varieties by their p-stems, leaves or inflorescences (have to take a closer look) and both are equally delicious.

venturabananas
09-22-2015, 01:05 PM
I grow Pisang Ceylon as well as Pisang Klotek under the same conditions.
My observations:
1) Pisang Klotek easily grows taller than 15' before flowering compared to Pisang Ceylon which consistently flowers around 10' to 12'
2) Pisang Klotek is probably the slowest grower in my yard, Pisang Ceylon can grow from spear pup to inflorescence in one season
3) Pisang Klotek does not produce many pups while my Pisang Ceylon mat constantly produces pups
4) Pisang Klotek produces bigger bunches (more fruits) but smaller fruits than the Pisang Ceylon

I agree that probably it would be hard to distinguish both varieties by their p-stems, leaves or inflorescences (have to take a closer look) and both are equally delicious.

I think we'd need a proper well-replicated experiment to really figure out if there is a difference between the two cultivars, and neither of us are doing that. Most of the differences you have noted in your yard don't occur in mine. Both flower at 15-16', the bunches and fingers are essentially the same size, if there is any difference in pupping (back when I could tell which plant they were coming from, PK was a faster pupper).

The range of differences you've noted are consistent with differences between mats of a single variety grown in different places in my yard. Please don't think that I question your observations -- I don't. I just think we need more replication to reach any reliable conclusions about any differences between these two varieties.

Going Bananas
09-23-2015, 04:28 PM
VB
How do you know that your PCeylon
did not die and the whole mat is 100% PK?

Ive seen CBs yard and the mats are over 20 feet apart.
PKs are very tall, slow growers and rarely pup
judging from the size of the mats@ CBs yard.
Since I already have the PK, no need to get the PC.

Thank you CB & VB.

venturabananas
09-23-2015, 11:18 PM
VB
How do you know that your PCeylon
did not die and the whole mat is 100% PK?


Because I kept track of the original p-stem and first couple of pups of each variety.

00christian00
07-06-2017, 05:25 PM
I got Musa Pisang Ceylon.:08:
I think I'm the first to have this banana in Dubrovnik ( ordered from Germany ). ( June 3. 2014 )


Hi, how did this go? Did the plant grow well?
I am thinking of purchasing one from Germany as well, but the picture I got showed the same sign as yours so I am a little worried to buy it.
Could it be that it's just a Mysore and it's really a BSV?
Maybe the seller is in good faith but who sent him the original plant didn't send him a Ceylon.

Edit
This is the plant I would like to buy:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=61955&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=61955&ppuser=26046)