View Full Version : SH 3640 Taste Report
servatusprime
07-20-2014, 10:08 AM
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5648_zpsb30c1fa1.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5648_zpsb30c1fa1.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5646_zps3ca30bd3.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5646_zps3ca30bd3.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5649_zps581617ea.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5649_zps581617ea.jpg.html)
TEXTURE- It’s a little hard to describe. While eating, the fruit feels smooth but the chew is somewhat brittle, so you get these smooth “chunks” on the initial bite. It blends to be a little creamy as you continue to chew. The banana feels more dense with no fluff, but not as dense as a namwah. The slightly brittle nature decreases as the fruit continue to ripen. This characteristic is a little odd, but it’s probably one of those things most people wouldn’t take the time to notice.
FIRMNESS – More firm than a grocery store Cavendish.
SWEETNESS- Sweet and mellows a bit as it gets riper. I wouldn't eat more than 2-3 at a time when it is actually ripe. The window when it’s sweeter isn't long.
TARTNESS- When fully yellow it can be a bit tart, but as it gets some brown spots the acidity lessens and you can eat it when its “just right”. This seems to be a variety where you've got to time the stage of ripeness to consume fresh out of hand. Nowhere near as time sensitive as pisang raja, but you’ll need to make some mental notes for the next harvest.
RIPENESS- Wait till its fully yellow, otherwise is can be a bit vegetal. I would wait for some brown spots. But you also don’t want to go too far either because it starts reminding me of a potato.
FLAVOR- When timed right, there is a lot of intense flavor in this little banana. When yellow you there is a strong presence of apple, cherry and lime with a hint of typical banana flavor. As it continues to ripen the tart and bright flavors diminish and you experience more of a classic banana flavor with coconut. This is a banana that you have to time the ripeness on to eat it out of hand. Before ripeness there is a vegetal taste and while perfectly ripe you don’t notice it (maybe a hint) because of the overpowering flavors, but as it ripens the fruity flavors diminish, the potato flavor becomes present and increases somewhat in intensity. It’s a little weird eating a mix of tropical fruity flavor and potato. My wife didn't care for it. So far it’s her least favorite out of the yard.
No attempt at cooking green (I just don’t like nanners that way). I like eating these ripe. I did try grilling them like I do with plantains. There were good that way, but I rather eat a plantain from the grocery.
OTHER: The fingers tend to split, so pay attention. It peels fairly easily so that’s nice. Not sure why it’s called “High Noon”. (Maybe it has something to do with eating it at the right time)
GROWING IT: It is a beautiful plant that grows fast and is hardy in my yard. It holds it leaves better than the other verities I grow. Its leaves also seem to be “tougher” as they are a little harder to cut off. I do notice the beginnings of sigtoka now and then, but I just chop off those leaves. Getting well rooted pups has been a little more challenging on this one compared to other varieties. It seems that I have to wait until the pups are a bit bigger. Also I didn't need to support the bunch which is a plus.
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5664_zpsd0764ab5.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5664_zpsd0764ab5.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/DSC010311280x960_zps82116cdc.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/DSC010311280x960_zps82116cdc.jpg.html)
OVERALL RATING: 7 I’m not completely satisfied in terms of fruit. I’ll let it grow for a while longer and see if the fruit characteristics improve with the next bunches. My wife wasn't crazy about it, and I can’t eat these all by myself especially with a smaller "ripe window". It is a beautiful plant that grows well so that is helping its score.
SUGGESTED USE: Eat it out of hand if you can get the timing right. I imagine if you like a more savory cooking banana you might enjoy this one. I guess I would label it a dual purpose banana with an emphasis on cooking. But I am not as much of a fan of savory bananas. Give me the sweet ones!!
JCA433
07-20-2014, 05:56 PM
I have read such positive reviews of SH 3640 over the past two years so this taste report is a bit of a shock. I planted SH 3640 this spring and it will be a long time before harvest. Hopefully the next bunch will have better flavor.
servatusprime
07-20-2014, 07:31 PM
I have read such positive reviews of SH 3640 over the past two years so this taste report is a bit of a shock. I planted SH 3640 this spring and it will be a long time before harvest. Hopefully the next bunch will have better flavor.
You and me both!! I searched and begged for this plant with the hope of an awesome but not widely grown variety. I will say that for a little while there was a great flavor explosion. I imagine some might say a little too intense and as it continued to ripen I thought it would improve, but I was mistaken. When the flavors were intense,that was the time to eat it as the vegetal/potato flavors were most overpowered.
I would also like to point out, that although you can taste the vegetal/potato flavors, its not so strong that you want to get out butter and sour cream. Keep in mind that when anyone is describing a taste experience be it wine, coffee or in this case bananas, you are trying to describe every note of flavor that rolls across the palate. Additionally everyone is going to have a slightly different experience which complicates maters. For this banana bunch, the vegetal/potato flavor was much more off putting to my wife. Not too surprising, since she has a bigger sweet tooth than I do. ;)
This variety is by no means awful, but I did have higher expectations. We shall see what the next bunch brings. I hope it works out really well for you.
Julian
07-20-2014, 07:50 PM
How would you compare it to the Goldfinger that you have?
Julian
07-20-2014, 07:56 PM
Seems like Australia was really progressive in trying different varieties out. Besides Cavs, Pomes and Namwa are sold commercially. FHIA 18 and 3640 did not make the cut, but Australia did commercialize Goldfinger. Goldfinger seems to be a fading variety. You would think with Pome being the second most bought variety in Australia that the FHIA versions could have been accepted?:2738:
PR-Giants
07-20-2014, 10:06 PM
Give me the sweet ones!!
Ninos are common in Florida.
servatusprime
07-21-2014, 09:43 AM
How would you compare it to the Goldfinger that you have?
Overall I like Goldfinger more. Here's is a link to my taste report: http://www.bananas.org/f2/goldfinger-taste-report-20686.html
servatusprime
07-21-2014, 09:47 AM
Ninos are common in Florida.
I think Going Bananas has it. I haven't seen it around here at my local nurseries or know of someone growing it. If I replace another mat, I'll keep that variety in mind. Thanks.
BrianOC714
07-21-2014, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the taste report.
robguz24
07-21-2014, 01:25 PM
I had some a couple years ago at a banana festival that were labeled as "likely" SH-3640 and I thought it was one of the best I've had. However, now growing the plant and having been told by Coconut Chris that it was Nang Phaya, I realize I probably have never tried SH-3640 after all. Would still love to grow it if I could find it.
It's interesting that people seem to be reacting to this review that it isn't all that good after all. To me, your objective description of the flavors make it sound very good and interesting, and makes me want to grow it even more. Any banana that you want to eat 2-3 at a time is good as far as I'm concerned. There are many types I've had that I rarely want more than 1 of, including several types I grow.
servatusprime
07-21-2014, 02:39 PM
It's interesting that people seem to be reacting to this review that it isn't all that good after all. To me, your objective description of the flavors make it sound very good and interesting, and makes me want to grow it even more. Any banana that you want to eat 2-3 at a time is good as far as I'm concerned. There are many types I've had that I rarely want more than 1 of, including several types I grow.
I think most people expected a review where I am exploding with unbridled excitement :2709:for the SH3640 based on what other people's comments have been in the past. Inadvertently I think my review might be discouraging to some. It is an interesting and good variety. I do think its more for the enthusiast rather than a mainstream casual gardener. (or for someone that doesn't think about using produce at its peak for the intended method of consumption)
In regard to 2-3 at a time, I'm just a hungry guy. http://www.sfdm.scad.edu/intranet/student/sfdmcontent/Hungry_Hungry_Hippos.jpg
Nicolas Naranja
10-04-2014, 03:55 PM
I tried one this week that was ripe on the bunch. Not impressed at all. It is the fruit version of Heidi Montag, beautiful without any substance
NANAMAN
10-04-2014, 07:04 PM
I think Going Bananas has it. I haven't seen it around here at my local nurseries or know of someone growing it. If I replace another mat, I'll keep that variety in mind. Thanks.
I don't think what you have pictured is SH-3640 . Those bananas look to be about 5-6 inches long. That picture also has persistent male flowers, which the SH-3640 does not have. The shape, length, and description of taste are all wrong for the 3640.
Look in my photo gallery:Bananas and Fruit 2010 pg. 3 I'm still growing this mat because it is an excellent banana.
Nicolas Naranja
10-04-2014, 07:35 PM
Back left with the spots...not terrible
Middle all the way left...awful
http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x455/NicolasNaranja/20141004_200808_zps3npykdpt.jpg (http://s1182.photobucket.com/user/NicolasNaranja/media/20141004_200808_zps3npykdpt.jpg.html)
servatusprime
10-05-2014, 07:55 AM
I don't think what you have pictured is SH-3640 . Those bananas look to be about 5-6 inches long. That picture also has persistent male flowers, which the SH-3640 does not have. The shape, length, and description of taste are all wrong for the 3640.
Look in my photo gallery:Bananas and Fruit 2010 pg. 3 I'm still growing this mat because it is an excellent banana.
Here's a current picture for you of a ripening bunch
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/80047962-A8C8-4D8F-AF46-9049EF871312_zpstfrn4nkr.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/80047962-A8C8-4D8F-AF46-9049EF871312_zpstfrn4nkr.jpg.html)
I'm not an expert yet but I think the other photo shows some transitional flowers. The current photo doesn't show persistent male flowers. In regard to finger length, it was the first bunch from the mat and did most of its ripening through the dry season. I would think that this might have something to do with the length. The next bunch should have bigger fingers.
The plant should be legit. I got it from a respected forum member from the other coast of Florida. However if it is a mixup please let me know what it could be.
I'm not sure what to say about the taste. For my reports I try to describe every flavor no matter how minute. I try to approach it like a coffee or wine review. Two people could be having the same actual eating experience, yet describe it differently. If anything my descriptions overemphasize the notes of flavor, but this is normal for other taste reviews like the aforementioned coffee and wine.
venturabananas
10-05-2014, 03:28 PM
I don't think what you have pictured is SH-3640 . Those bananas look to be about 5-6 inches long... The shape, length, and description of taste are all wrong for the 3640.
I don't know what the defining characteristics for SH-3640 are, so I can't weigh in on what those pictured in this thread are, but I would note that fruit shape, length, and, to some extent, flavor are strongly affected by climate and growing practices.
PR-Giants
10-08-2014, 08:53 AM
I don't know what the defining characteristics for SH-3640 are, so I can't weigh in on what those pictured in this thread are...
There's a guide online that you can download.
Identification and characterization guide for FHIA banana and plantain hybrids
PR-Giants
10-08-2014, 09:01 AM
I don't think what you have pictured is SH-3640 . Those bananas look to be about 5-6 inches long. That picture also has persistent male flowers, which the SH-3640 does not have. The shape, length, and description of taste are all wrong for the 3640.
I agree.
A bad thing about these "Taste Reports" are when/if they're done on a misidentified cultivar or a poorly developed bunch.
No data is better than bad data.
A grower should not make a decision based on the org, but instead use it as a direction on what to research.
A large and extensive study of 15 synthetic hybrids was recently done in Puerto Rico.
Best Dessert Banana - SH-3640
Best Cooking Banana - FHIA-23
FWIW, out of the synthetic hybrids I've tasted, the SH-3640 was the best dessert banana and there has not been a close second.
Nicolas Naranja
10-08-2014, 09:30 AM
If the definition of best is tasteless, the SH-3640 would win. I had full sized well developed fruit. It is a shame because the fruit is beautiful and the texture is great.
robguz24
10-08-2014, 11:12 AM
I don't know what the defining characteristics for SH-3640 are, so I can't weigh in on what those pictured in this thread are, but I would note that fruit shape, length, and, to some extent, flavor are strongly affected by climate and growing practices.
Very true. Even in my own yard, I will get DBs that flower totally shaded that give 3" bananas and the ones in full sun with roots going into my watered lawn area can be 8" with quite a bit of variation in shape too.
venturabananas
10-08-2014, 01:02 PM
There's a guide online that you can download.
Identification and characterization guide for FHIA banana and plantain hybrids
Yes, I do have that guide. I haven't found it as helpful as I'd like, in that either their defining characteristics are not typically shown in the photos folks post, or that some of the characteristics they use (e.g., amount of red in the leaf sheaths) are so environmentally variable that when you compare from one growing site to another, the same variety might look pretty different. I'm not saying it isn't useful for some varieties, but, for example, I'm not convinced I could distinguish FHIA-01 from FHIA-18 just by using it.
PR-Giants
10-09-2014, 06:39 AM
Yes, I do have that guide. I haven't found it as helpful as I'd like, in that either their defining characteristics are not typically shown in the photos folks post, or that some of the characteristics they use (e.g., amount of red in the leaf sheaths) are so environmentally variable that when you compare from one growing site to another, the same variety might look pretty different. I'm not saying it isn't useful for some varieties, but, for example, I'm not convinced I could distinguish FHIA-01 from FHIA-18 just by using it.
I've found the guide to be incredibly helpful and if you're not confident with using the morphological characters that can be influence by the environment then just use the characters that are stable.
It is fairly easy to distinguish the FHIA-01 from the FHIA-18 by just using this guide.
The guide states, that the FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time.
Now by just using that short description. try to see if you can distinguish FHIA-01 from FHIA-18.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56882 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56882)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=39057&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=39057&ppuser=7760)
JCA433
10-09-2014, 11:31 AM
My SH 3640 has calcium deficiency so I expect my bunch will really disappoint! The leaves are twisted and bent but it is not very severe. I am over fertilizing and must adjust!
venturabananas
10-09-2014, 03:32 PM
I've found the guide to be incredibly helpful and if you're not confident with using the morphological characters that can be influence by the environment then just use the characters that are stable.
It is fairly easy to distinguish the FHIA-01 from the FHIA-18 by just using this guide.
The guide states, that the FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time.
Now by just using that short description. try to see if you can distinguish FHIA-01 from FHIA-18.
That's a great observation of a difference between those two varieties, but not one that the guide mentions. I'll remember that distinction for the future. The guide does mention those characteristics of the FHIA-01 bud, but it says nothing about the the FHIA-18 bud (and doesn't include a photo of it). Without you mentioning it, I wouldn't have got that info from the guide. Thanks.
PR-Giants
10-12-2014, 07:24 AM
That's a great observation of a difference between those two varieties, but not one that the guide mentions. I'll remember that distinction for the future. The guide does mention those characteristics of the FHIA-01 bud, but it says nothing about the the FHIA-18 bud (and doesn't include a photo of it). Without you mentioning it, I wouldn't have got that info from the guide. Thanks.
There was no observation done for you, you did everything on your own... well, you and your trusty FHIA Guidebook.
Thanks for showing the folks that by reading a short description in your FHIA Guidebook about the FHIA-01 bud,
"the FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time."
you were easily able to distinguish the FHIA-01 from the FHIA-18 without the need of any description or photo of the FHIA-18. With this knowledge you've acquired you will be able to distinguish the FHIA-01 from most of the others bananas in the world. :woohoonaner:
Congrats & Cheers
:goteam: :nanadrink: :waving:
PR-Giants
10-12-2014, 07:28 AM
My SH 3640 has calcium deficiency so I expect my bunch will really disappoint! The leaves are twisted and bent but it is not very severe. I am over fertilizing and must adjust!
It seems like our situations are kinda similar, my SH 3640 also has a calcium deficiency but I expect to get a super huge massive monster bunch! :woohoonaner:
The leaves are twisted and bent but not severely. I am not over fertilizing and so no need to adjust! :08:
venturabananas
10-12-2014, 03:48 PM
There was no observation done for you, you did everything on your own... well, you and your trusty FHIA Guidebook.
Thanks for showing the folks that by reading a short description in your FHIA Guidebook about the FHIA-01 bud,
"the FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time."
you were easily able to distinguish the FHIA-01 from the FHIA-18 without the need of any description or photo of the FHIA-18. With this knowledge you've acquired you will be able to distinguish the FHIA-01 from most of the others bananas in the world.
My point was that nowhere does the guide say that ONLY FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time. It says that FHIA-01 has revolute bracts that lift one at a time whereas SH-3640 has revolute bracts that lift in pairs. It makes no mention of what the bracts of most of the other varieties do, or their bud shape, including FHIA-18. You've seen enough of the other varieties to know that their buds look different and their bracts behave differently from FHIA-01, but the guide didn't tell you that.
PR-Giants
10-20-2014, 08:56 AM
Identification for FHIA banana (http://www.bananas.org/showthread.php?p=253294&posted=1#post253294)
PR-Giants
10-22-2014, 08:55 AM
The SuperHuge-3640
It's amazing, these fingers are over 6" long before the bract even falls.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56952 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56952)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56951 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56951)
:woohoonaner:
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5648_zpsb30c1fa1.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5648_zpsb30c1fa1.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5646_zps3ca30bd3.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5646_zps3ca30bd3.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5649_zps581617ea.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5649_zps581617ea.jpg.html)
TEXTURE- It’s a little hard to describe. While eating, the fruit feels smooth but the chew is somewhat brittle, so you get these smooth “chunks” on the initial bite. It blends to be a little creamy as you continue to chew. The banana feels more dense with no fluff, but not as dense as a namwah. The slightly brittle nature decreases as the fruit continue to ripen. This characteristic is a little odd, but it’s probably one of those things most people wouldn’t take the time to notice.
FIRMNESS – More firm than a grocery store Cavendish.
SWEETNESS- Sweet and mellows a bit as it gets riper. I wouldn't eat more than 2-3 at a time when it is actually ripe. The window when it’s sweeter isn't long.
TARTNESS- When fully yellow it can be a bit tart, but as it gets some brown spots the acidity lessens and you can eat it when its “just right”. This seems to be a variety where you've got to time the stage of ripeness to consume fresh out of hand. Nowhere near as time sensitive as pisang raja, but you’ll need to make some mental notes for the next harvest.
RIPENESS- Wait till its fully yellow, otherwise is can be a bit vegetal. I would wait for some brown spots. But you also don’t want to go too far either because it starts reminding me of a potato.
FLAVOR- When timed right, there is a lot of intense flavor in this little banana. When yellow you there is a strong presence of apple, cherry and lime with a hint of typical banana flavor. As it continues to ripen the tart and bright flavors diminish and you experience more of a classic banana flavor with coconut. This is a banana that you have to time the ripeness on to eat it out of hand. Before ripeness there is a vegetal taste and while perfectly ripe you don’t notice it (maybe a hint) because of the overpowering flavors, but as it ripens the fruity flavors diminish, the potato flavor becomes present and increases somewhat in intensity. It’s a little weird eating a mix of tropical fruity flavor and potato. My wife didn't care for it. So far it’s her least favorite out of the yard.
No attempt at cooking green (I just don’t like nanners that way). I like eating these ripe. I did try grilling them like I do with plantains. There were good that way, but I rather eat a plantain from the grocery.
OTHER: The fingers tend to split, so pay attention. It peels fairly easily so that’s nice. Not sure why it’s called “High Noon”. (Maybe it has something to do with eating it at the right time)
GROWING IT: It is a beautiful plant that grows fast and is hardy in my yard. It holds it leaves better than the other verities I grow. Its leaves also seem to be “tougher” as they are a little harder to cut off. I do notice the beginnings of sigtoka now and then, but I just chop off those leaves. Getting well rooted pups has been a little more challenging on this one compared to other varieties. It seems that I have to wait until the pups are a bit bigger. Also I didn't need to support the bunch which is a plus.
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_5664_zpsd0764ab5.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_5664_zpsd0764ab5.jpg.html)
http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/DSC010311280x960_zps82116cdc.jpg (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/DSC010311280x960_zps82116cdc.jpg.html)
OVERALL RATING: 7 I’m not completely satisfied in terms of fruit. I’ll let it grow for a while longer and see if the fruit characteristics improve with the next bunches. My wife wasn't crazy about it, and I can’t eat these all by myself especially with a smaller "ripe window". It is a beautiful plant that grows well so that is helping its score.
SUGGESTED USE: Eat it out of hand if you can get the timing right. I imagine if you like a more savory cooking banana you might enjoy this one. I guess I would label it a dual purpose banana with an emphasis on cooking. But I am not as much of a fan of savory bananas. Give me the sweet ones!!
servatusprime
10-22-2014, 10:35 AM
:woohoonaner:
Yes your plant is bigger and I'm jealous......I'm merely a mortal and not a banana god.
What you can grow is always impressive, keep up the great work.
PR-Giants
10-23-2014, 09:41 PM
"Others such as SH-3640.10, or ‘High Noon’, have recently been shown to have excellent eating qualities and research has shown that a significant population of Australian consumers prefer it over Cavendish and Lady Finger in blind taste tests (Daniells et al., 2013)."
servatusprime
10-24-2014, 09:07 AM
Thanks Keith,
I hope my second bunch tastes better. (currently filling in) I know so many people speak highly of this variety.
P.S. I'm sorry if my previous post in this thread sounded snarky.
PR-Giants
10-25-2014, 09:39 AM
P.S. I'm sorry if my previous post in this thread sounded snarky.
Relax, snarky is nothing.
Many of my posts are sarcastic.
Anyway,
I think what you're doing with these "Taste Reports" is absolutely amazing.
I would never have known what an undersized SH-3640 tasted like, and
the "Goldfinger Report", now that was my favorite.
Aren't you growing the Goldlikefinger from Going Bananas.
What you do is always impressive, keep up the great work.
Photo gallery - Going Bananas (http://going-bananas.com/goingbananasphotogallery.htm)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56957 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56950)
edzone9
10-25-2014, 06:39 PM
I have 2 3640's in my yard, should fruit next year, one I got from Don at GB and the other From Bananimal ( Dan ) Both are impressive looking plants, they just started to pup I removed one and planted it in a 15G pot, the pups due take a while to take off..
Can't wait to taste the fruit next year !:08:..
Ed
servatusprime
10-25-2014, 09:32 PM
Aren't you growing the Goldlikefinger from Going Bananas.
I got my goldfinger as a tissue culture plant from Echo Nursery. I imagine their source was agri-starts.
PR-Giants
10-27-2014, 09:27 AM
I got my goldfinger as a tissue culture plant from Echo Nursery. I imagine their source was agri-starts.
I've gotten plenty of goldfinger tissue cultures from agri-starts and some looked like yours, but none ended up being the real goldfinger.
Your SH-3640 looks different than mine, your flowers are yellow & purple and mine are yellow & white, even the buds are different. It seems like the source was the only thing the same. :ha:
Was the peduncle on your SH-3640 hairless or hairy?
Check your GF also.
My SH-3640
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56954 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56954)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56966 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56966)
Your SH-3640
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55585&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55585&ppuser=9375)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55665&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55665&ppuser=9375)
servatusprime
10-27-2014, 06:21 PM
I've gotten plenty of goldfinger tissue cultures from agri-starts and some looked like yours, but none ended up being the real goldfinger.
Your SH-3640 looks different than mine, your flowers are yellow & purple and mine are yellow & white, even the buds are different. It seems like the source was the only thing the same. :ha:
Was the peduncle on your SH-3640 hairless or hairy?
Check your GF also.
I'll have to get a ladder this weekend and check. From the ground I'm not seeing anything, but if I get up who knows. As a conciliation, here is a photo comparing the two p-stems. SH-3640 on the left, FHIA-1 on right.
Well if what I have ends up not being goldfinger from some reason I'll still be happy. I really like it as I indicated in my taste report. I have to admit I'm not sure what else it really could be.
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/B6A645FE-2687-4504-B5DE-2FE533938AB9_zpsq1wudrz4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/B6A645FE-2687-4504-B5DE-2FE533938AB9_zpsq1wudrz4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo B6A645FE-2687-4504-B5DE-2FE533938AB9_zpsq1wudrz4.jpg"/></a>
robguz24
10-27-2014, 07:53 PM
I've gotten plenty of goldfinger tissue cultures from agri-starts and some looked like yours, but none ended up being the real goldfinger.
Makes me wonder if mine was the real thing. It started life at agristarts and many traits seemed to fit, but who knows.
PR-Giants
10-28-2014, 05:16 AM
Makes me wonder if mine was the real thing. It started life at agristarts and many traits seemed to fit, but who knows.
All bananas have many similar traits, but not all bananas are Goldfingers.
Focusing on the many traits that seem to fit, will lead to many different bananas being called a Goldfinger.
Focusing on the traits that don't fit, will help eliminate many bananas that aren't Goldfingers.
I have to admit I'm not sure what else it really could be.
If it's not a Goldfinger, then it's something other than a Goldfinger.
Identifying a banana by phenotype is done by simply eliminating what it isn't.
If you have 2 different bananas that are both named Goldfinger, then you can be sure that one is not a Goldfinger, but that does not ensure that one is a Goldfinger.
servatusprime
10-28-2014, 06:45 AM
All bananas have many similar traits, but not all bananas are Goldfingers.
Focusing on the many traits that seem to fit, will lead to many different bananas being called a Goldfinger.
Focusing on the traits that don't fit, will help eliminate many bananas that aren't Goldfingers.
If it's not a Goldfinger, then it's something other than a Goldfinger.
Identifying a banana by phenotype is done by simply eliminating what it isn't.
If you have 2 different bananas that are both named Goldfinger, then you can be sure that one is not a Goldfinger, but that does not ensure that one is a Goldfinger.
Agreed. I'll have to go through the list of phenotype traits for goldfinger. I've done that at a quick glance and it seems to generally fit, but I haven't done it in detail. (Which is what I would need to do to be more certain) I wish I took more detailed photos of the flower to review, I might have to wait until next bud emergence which won't be fore some months.
However I do wonder how much my growing conditions are affecting the phenotype expression. As I understand, the insitu growing conditions influence such things to varying degrees and wonder if this explains some of the differences you and I are seeing with the SH-3640. If this is the case, it may by extension also explain variations in my other varieties with the "text book" descriptions.
PR-Giants
10-28-2014, 11:01 AM
However I do wonder ...
Here's a SH-3640 photo from a highly respected member that grows near you, maybe he can help you.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56130&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56130&ppuser=820&sl=b)
servatusprime
10-28-2014, 11:17 AM
Here's a SH-3640 photo from a highly respected member that grows near you, maybe he can help you.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56130&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56130&ppuser=820&sl=b)
Why...........that looks exceptionally like mine ;)
PR-Giants
10-28-2014, 11:34 AM
Why...........that looks exceptionally like mine ;)
Good luck with that. :ha::ha:
servatusprime
10-28-2014, 12:03 PM
Here's a SH-3640 photo from a highly respected member that grows near you, maybe he can help you.
I would agree that we should have very similar weather patterns, but I would be very surprised if we have the same soil.
If I assume that the two varieties currently in question in my yard are FHIA hybrids (let's hope that's a safe assumption) and consulting the FHIA identification guide I believe I can rule out:
1. All plantains are out.
2. FHIA 17, 23, and 25 since the two varieties I have both have hanging rather than perpendicular bunches.
3. FHIA 2 can be ruled out since both of my varieties have clean rachis
4. FHIA 18 can be ruled out because I don't recall a thin purple line on the petiole.
So I think out of the FHIA possibilities that I could likely obtain in the hobby trade I'm left with FHIA-1 and SH-3640.
PR-Giants
10-28-2014, 03:58 PM
If I assume that the two varieties currently in question in my yard are FHIA hybrids (let's hope that's a safe assumption)
It's strange that you're not even considering offtypes. TC labs worldwide invest time & money to keep their source material accurate and production of offtypes low. Your TC lab does not.
If your source material is an offtype, there's a good chance you won't be producing Goldfingers. :lurk:
Also, there are many Goldfinger, other FHIA, & SH offtypes intentionally in TC production.
servatusprime
10-28-2014, 04:07 PM
It's strange that you're not even considering offtypes. TC labs worldwide invest time & money to keep their source material accurate and production of offtypes low. Your TC lab does not.
If your source material is an offtype, there's a good chance you won't be producing Goldfingers. :lurk:
Also, there are many Goldfinger, other FHIA, & SH offtypes intentionally in TC production.
You make good points and yes I was not considering offtypes. The SH-3640 should be correct given the source (unless he had one too many beers while digging up the pup and picked the wrong one) or it's an offtype from his mat which i suppose is possible.
I'll admit I don't know much about offtypes in TC production and I should educate myself. I only made a guess that the source is agristarts, I'll contact the nursery to confirm. If I have foolsgoldfinger (patent pending), I'm still happy with it. It's attractive, productive, and tasty.
The research continues.......
servatusprime
10-28-2014, 09:05 PM
After doing a little looking, it seems that offtypes can contribute to a fair amount of variability in a variety. So what do you do with that? I guess you could be a purist and say only the "real deal" with a confirming DNA test will do or throw out what you got if its qualities are undesirable.
From what I've read so far (not a vast amount) it seems that the change in an offtype is not predictable and not necessarily detrimental. The change could be very minor and essentially have the desired variety. Of course on the other hand, the change could be so significant that some one wants to declare it a new variety all together.
Unless you have a significant meaningful change, I don't see a reason to say that it isn't the intended variety. (For some reason I can't help but think of dog breeds like a Jack Russel Terrier which has significant variability in appearance characteristics yet they are all the same breed according to the experts)
I'll do some more looking, but so far I'm not convinced that I don't have a FHIA-1 and SH-3640 in my yard. I'm not looking to prove myself right, so if I'm wrong or botanically misguided, let me know. I'm keeping my goldfinger or foolsgoldfinger or what ever it is because I like it. (If I have a new variety I'll have to come up with a better name and become famous)
PR-Giants
10-29-2014, 08:20 AM
I'm keeping my goldfinger or foolsgoldfinger or what ever it is because I like it.
Once you have a plant the name becomes less relevant for you. The name is really only useful when conveying information with others so that each party knows they are talking about the same cultivar.
In a "Taste Report" it's really only important to get the taste correct, which actual cultivar you're tasting probably is less important.
After doing a little looking
Look at these SH-3640 photos and find the SH-3640 that looks different than the others. You can use a Jack Russel Terrier for assistance, if you don't have a Jack Russel Terrier then use any dog, but be sure to call it a Jack Russel Terrier.
Hopefully this helps, Good Luck!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55476 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55476)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55665&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55665&ppuser=9375)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56945 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56943)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56130&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56130&ppuser=820&sl=b)
servatusprime
10-29-2014, 12:06 PM
I tried asking my dog, but he is only half Jack Russel, so he's no help.
Thanks for the side by side comparisons. I'm gonna look through my computer and see if I have better photos from my yard. I think that one is a little dark and therefore a little more difficult to evaluate.
I do see some similarities and differences. The coloring of your plant seems to be very similar to the TARS photo, where as mine and Bananimal's has red in the p-steam and at the edges of the petioles. The bell shape of your flower seems similar to Bananimal's (a little more elongated) whereas mine seems more similar to the TARS photo. Also the length of the fingers relative to the girth seems to be a little longer in your plant with the other three being more similar to each other. The petals of the flowers in mine do seem a bit purple, but I wonder if that has anything to do with the lighting. Like I said I"ll see if I can find another photo or two and compare the two flowers I've had since planting this mat.
Is there anything in the climate/soil that can influence some of these things such as color? I believe I've heard of that here on the forum before, but I haven't researched it for myself yet.
That's what I see, but I'm just a novice. Hope I'm not irritating you. I would like to think our supplier sent us both the same plant.
PR-Giants
10-30-2014, 07:41 AM
Start at page 22
Descriptors for banana (http://www.bioversityinternational.org/uploads/tx_news/Descriptors_for_banana__Musa_spp.__326.pdf)
servatusprime
10-30-2014, 09:46 PM
Before I start making a matrix of attributes, would you mind answering my question in my earlier post? The one regarding climate/soil affecting color and perhaps other characteristics. And for that matter can't there be allowance for some level deviation and still be considered the same variety?
I've heard people talk about climate/soil variation in general on the forum, although in my wanderings on the internet I haven't found an abundance of information on the topic (e.g. science paper). I might just be looking in the wrong places though.
In the meantime, here is a few more photos I was able to dig up from the first flower this mat produced. Unfortunately, I don't have any for the second flower. (My life at that time was chaotic)
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg"/></a>
Have a great night.
PR-Giants
10-31-2014, 11:12 AM
It's not an SH-3640.
Read Descriptors for banana (http://www.bioversityinternational.org/uploads/tx_news/Descriptors_for_banana__Musa_spp.__326.pdf)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50497 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50497)
http://www.bananas.org/f2/banana-flower-photo-database-2165.html
Before I start making a matrix of attributes, would you mind answering my question in my earlier post? The one regarding climate/soil affecting color and perhaps other characteristics. And for that matter can't there be allowance for some level deviation and still be considered the same variety?
I've heard people talk about climate/soil variation in general on the forum, although in my wanderings on the internet I haven't found an abundance of information on the topic (e.g. science paper). I might just be looking in the wrong places though.
In the meantime, here is a few more photos I was able to dig up from the first flower this mat produced. Unfortunately, I don't have any for the second flower. (My life at that time was chaotic)
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3263JPG_zpsc40badeb.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3259JPG_zps3eca6c77.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg"/></a>
Have a great night.
servatusprime
10-31-2014, 12:00 PM
Ok. I'll read it and get back to you. You know a lot more about this stuff than I do.
Where did that photo come from by the way? It looks like a great reference.
PR-Giants
11-01-2014, 09:32 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=54141 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=54141)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50635 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50635)
<a href="http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/servatusprime/media/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/servatusprime/IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_3665JPG_zps4ddc40af.jpg"/></a>
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