View Full Version : Potting soil advice (newbie)
BIM1229
05-27-2014, 11:41 AM
Hey everybody,
I have been using this forum as a resource for sometime now however I couldn't seem to find an adequate response to my question. So I decided to poll the experts. I understand the basics of the types of soil bananas need to thrive, well draining, rich in organic matter, etc... However I was wondering if someone could provide me with and ingredient list of how they make their soil or a pre-bagged that people have had success with, or how to amend sed pre-bagged soil.
I previously followed some instructions I found online suggest 1/3 small rocks, 1/3 sand, and 1/3 high quality soil (I used roots organic). However the mix looks too sandy to me and although their has been growth of the plant it is not as fast as I would have expected (however I am new to banana cultivation). Btw that mix was for a java blue I purchased on line with one offshoot. Additionally I have (all supposed sterile tissue clones) a dwarf cavendish, a dwarf double Mahoi, dwarf red, truly tiny, and Orinoco in a cactus mix I found at the local garden center that I supplemented with extra perlite. It is hard to judge the growth of these bananas because they were sent too me contaminated with spider mites (never order from Florida hills) s/he refused to refund the plants as well.
Either way I am about ready to transplant the tissue clones and wanna give my bananas the best environment to grow. Hence I am looking for the best soil mix possible for potted banana plants. Also if the mix I used for the lager plant should be changed please advise.
Btw I live in a northern climate usda hardiness. Zone 6-7 depending on the source so I plan on bringing the ladies inside for the winter. Also I have been using fabric pots in hopes of increasing air circulation to the root zone(25 gal. For the big girl and I plan on using 5 gal. for the smaller plants until they are more established.
Thanks in advance for all of the help,
Bryan
P.s. I hope I posted this under the right category I apologize if I didn't.
2woodensticks
05-27-2014, 12:18 PM
I,myself use cheap potting or top soil then I add perlite and black cow composted manure..i use more perlite..better drainage, easier to regulate water..all depends what I am planting..
sunfish
05-27-2014, 04:18 PM
Pure peat moss, pearlite added -- good drain -- good growth
raygrogan
05-28-2014, 01:45 PM
This is for taro and the occasional banana pup before it gets planted out.
I start with a 5 gal bucket of the best soil I can find. Then sift it thru a tennis racket. Then add the following fertilizers and amendments: ("oz" = volume, like 4 oz is a half cup)
Fert – in HI spring 2014 my standardized mix was
3 oz of 10-20-20
1 oz Ironite
4 oz dolomite
Iowa – well, no more dolomite (at least I haven't seen) I could add a little epsom salt (Mg sulfate).
3 oz 6-24-24
1 oz Ironite
.5 oz Epsom salts (so in PB jar by eye, half as much as Ironite)
I usually re-pot the taro after about 2 months, to a bigger pot. A typical progression is start in 1 cup, then to a quart, then to 3 gal. Each time the roots are not disturbed, just surrounded by the new dirt. When I don't re-pot it starts heading for maturity and sometimes I see deficiencies like K.
For the final re-pot before it gets dropped into water to mature I add a tsp of a high K fert like 10-5-29 near the bottom of the new pot. After about 2 mos I top up with more dirt mix with added calcium nitrate at 4 oz per gal. That is the last fert they get.
I can use soil like this for a few reasons that might not apply to your bananas. Since my biggest pot is 3 gal weight is OK. I wouldn't want to be moving 25 or even 5 gal of wet dirt. Also I have ready sources of dirt. And taro does not mind "wet feet". Good luck. If you test a few different methods please post your results.
Tortuga
06-02-2014, 01:45 PM
I am using a mixture of mostly Kellogg All Natural Garden Soil for Flowers and Vegetables mixed with steer manure and composted chicken manure. This seems to drain really fast, although the soil stays moist for a long time. I have mine (an impostor blue java and a dwarf red) in pots topped with about an inch of wood mulch.
I haven't seen any growth on them since they were planted which was almost 2 weeks ago now. I have been checking on them daily and only watering when the soil starts to dry out. Don't want to leave them with soggy feet. My plan is to bump them up to a 20-25 gal container when they fill out the ones they are in now, but I'm wondering if I need to do something to get them jump started.
Please help!
austinl01
06-02-2014, 03:50 PM
Bananas hate pots. Plant them in the ground if you possibly can. Mine grew terribly last year with very good potting soil in their containers.
Abnshrek
06-02-2014, 04:12 PM
Bananas hate pots. Plant them in the ground if you possibly can. Mine grew terribly last year with very good potting soil in their containers.
My Banana's like pots.. :^)
Iunepeace
06-02-2014, 04:49 PM
I'm wondering if you could expound on that Abnshrek? To add to what the OP posted, I just came back to my country after being away in school for awhile and I admit I left my bananas to fend for themselves while away, not they're not doing much at all; they sometimes put out buds but all the naners dry up, so sad :(
Because of this (and my inherent inclination towards "efficiency") I'm thinking of just digging up a few of the smaller varieties and just growing them in some pots I have lying around. I have a couple shorter varieties that hover around 5 feet or less even in ground so I'm thinking they should be okay. My questions are what size pot (smallest preferably) could I grow them in with reasonable success? I'm in the 10th or 11th growing zone so growing season is not an issue. Also I pretty much an trying to fund my growing venture on a college student salary (i.e. mostly nothing lol) so any cheap fertilizers/growing methods would be appreciated. And lastly I would love to be able grow some taro as well (popular in cuisine here) so I'm wondering if those three gallon pots grow large enough taro to be consumed and if the soil he was referring to that he grows them in was just normal soil from the yard or something that he added the fertilizer to?
Thanks in advance for you guys' responses, I gave you a lot to chew on ^__^
P.S. The gardening center nearby doesn't have large quantities of perlite readily available to buy in bunk if I remember correctly. Can I use anything else/something natural to fluffen the soil/improve drainage? They do have the cow manure stuff so that would be fine :D Now to find a good summer job to fund my gardening exploits....
Abnshrek
06-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I have Banana's that I do not want to subject to the Winter Elements so I keep them in Pots.. When I put a Banana in a Pot I usually put it in the shade so it doesn't loose its leaves for 2 weeks so it can grows roots. Once I see movement they get moved into sun.. My Dirt Mix is Black Cow, Perlite, and Peat.. I coat my root ball and soil near rootball w/ Mycorrhizae for a better root system.. I use Fish Emulsion, Fruit Fuel, and Potassium Sulphate in my initial watering, and I don't water again till I see growth/ Vertical movement.. How's that? :^)
sunfish
06-02-2014, 06:56 PM
Pure peat moss, pearlite added -- good drain -- good growth Bump :woohoonaner:
Pancrazio
06-02-2014, 07:59 PM
Cheap potting soil here, mixed with pumice. I keep all my plants in pots during winter, some in a cold frame, some other inside the house in an heated room.
Never had any problem, related to the potting mix.
Also keep in mind that there's some degree of substitution between good potting soil and good cultivation. You can stay on the cheap side with potting soil if you pay a lot of attention to watering, fertilization, etc.
Tortuga
06-02-2014, 10:18 PM
So it sounds like I need o get these guys out of the direct sunlight until they get their root structure established, is that right? I've got them in some 3-5 gallon (not sure, they are recycled from other trees I bought) pots now, which I assumed would be best for them straight out of the mail-order package.
They've been going for about 2 weeks and the original leaves are browned a bit. Am I too late or can they still be saved?
raygrogan
06-03-2014, 12:20 AM
Iunepeace - taro - yes, absolutely to eat! Delish! You can see some pix and tips here https://picasaweb.google.com/114685571384513740781 Soon I will put up more on the dirt mixing, going from small pots to large in several steps, etc. Almost any method will work. The dirt I start with changes depending on where my construction contacts are digging foundations, but generally good to medium top soil or just below. Since I add good nutrients I lean more toward good "structure" and weed-free than rich.
Abnshrek
06-03-2014, 09:16 AM
For starting out new plants I prefer to use sand & small rocks, no ferts, and later add compost to the watering.
Although many commercial banana growers start with a high Phos fert like 0-50-0.
What happened w/ the grass clippings?
raygrogan
06-03-2014, 11:24 AM
Great roots, and perfect timing to re-pot / set out before they start getting crowded. Good idea for new plants to emphasize air vs soggy over-fertilized soil. I just did 5 pups my way and 1 rotted, 4 did fine, so clearly borderline.
Iunepeace
06-03-2014, 12:12 PM
I like how this thread is blowing up with activity! You guys are posting some incredibly useful info and a relatively novice grower like myself appreciates it!
Abnshrek, thanks for your broken-down process of how to pot up bananas! The shade and only-initial watering sound like really good ideas, gonna try those. I already have some Black Cow and some Fish Emulsion so a start at least :)
Ray, thanks for the reply about the taro. I haven't had luck growing it in the ground so here's to a good container experience! I clicked on your link and Whoa Nelly! You have an incredible wealth of step-by-step visual gardening processes, logging, and info in those albums. Thank you for taking the time to make all those descriptions. I just breasted the cusp of them and already was drawn in :)
My mom offered to take me to get some seaweed today so I'm wondering can I just use that to add xyz to the soil? I remember reading that it contains a lot of minerals, it's pretty decent as mulch and breaks down, and there's a sure lot of it in regular supply lol. What do you guys think?
from the sea
06-04-2014, 03:27 AM
i use seaweed all the time, that is what a lot of the dirt here in the keys is anyways
Iunepeace
06-04-2014, 09:39 AM
i use seaweed all the time, that is what a lot of the dirt here in the keys is anyways
Thanks, I'm glad to hear you do. Is there anything special I should do with it or some way I should prep it before adding to the soil? I know some people claim it's too salty for plants. Also best method of application in your experience. I seem to recall it breaks down after a while :)
merce3
06-04-2014, 05:19 PM
i use peat moss, perlite, black cow and some organic potting soil they have for $5 at home depot.
BIM1229
06-05-2014, 01:20 PM
I tend to agree with the previous statement regarding acidic soil. It seems to me that the majority of people use some form of peat based soil mix. Most peat moss is innately acidic especially as it decomposes releasing all of the delicious nutrients our bananas love :). Also through my personal experience I have discovered that peat has a very interesting characteristic of changing its pH depending on how wet or dry it is. (This also appears to be true of most soils however the pH swings do not seem to be a drastic as they are in peat moss). Ultimately this serves to seriously complicate the problem because when one attempt to pH the soil are the looking for the pH when it is dry or when it is wet. At this point most will say well get a pH meter or test kit and then suggest to follow some protocol involving digging up a soil sample and then testing a soil water dilution. However this tells you nothing as well because there are so many confounding factors it is impossible to differentiate what is the soil pH and what is the effect of the water dilution. Recall that pH is a measure of the concentration of free hydrogen Ions in solution however this is not always the case depending on how you define an acid or base, Arrhenius (concentration of free H+, Brønsted-Lowry (acids are proton donors and bases are proton acceptors), or Lewis (acids are electron pair acceptors and bases are electron pair donors). This confounds soil analysis results because each type of tester is based on a different Acid-Base Definition color kits are usually based on the Arrhenius definition while electric/analog meters are based on the Lewis definition. Therefore unless you know how they analyzed the soil when they made the claim bananas like acidic soil you really don't know if you are assessing the free Hydrogen Ion concentration (Arrhenius) or the Ionic Composition of the soil (Lewis).
Either way the point I was trying to make was that when I first began Gardening I attempted to optimize everything I could based on the best scientific information I could find and spent way too much time trying to adjust the pH to exactly 6.8 because that was what the literature said and I usually ended up killing my plants in the process. Eventually I realized that Gardening like everything else is both an art and a science. Thus, one must learn to read the plants and interpret what they are telling you and use the science to confirm it. For example if your plants are showing weird "nutrient deficiencies" (which personally I believe are to an extent acid base issues but that is a discussion for another time) and the leaves look deformed you probably have some form of an acid base problem and it would be large enough to detect on any type of meter. Or if you are growing in dirt or beds use a meter initially to get in the general pH range. But after that let the plants do their thing.
In summary learning to read your plants through experimentation is way more reliable than the most expensive and well thought out pH/Nutrient/Light/ Moisture test anyone could ever preform. So don't stress the pH and try to learn from the people who have been doing it forever and having success such as my new friend Abnshrek who saved my nanners. Huge Props I look forward to learning as much as I can from you and the rest of the experienced Gardeners on this website. You contributions are invaluable to us noobs. I’ll post some pics soon when I have a chance.
Hope this Helps,
Bryan
P.S. I apologize for any spelling/grammer areas as you have probably deduced I am a scientist not a writer.
Iunepeace
06-05-2014, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the replies. I found a bag of Black Cow my parents had kept in the corner of the porch while I was away; checked it yesterday and it still looks like black gold (happy day) and I do believe I saw a baby centipede crawling in it so its still organism-suitable. Will be using that in the bottom of some containers to feed my upcoming plants :)
As to the peat moss as I understand it it is not a renewable resource so I hesitate to use it (although the argument could be made that perlite isn't either) along with the pH issues mentioned by Mr. Bryan. I am glad to see that most of your mix is the same thing I would use when trying to create a good growing medium. Anyone know if it's okay to grow something in a container using 100% compost?
Thanks for the detailed exposition on acidity and its relation to soil testing and growing habits. I have learned through much trial and error myself that it is indeed best to just try to grow things and pay attention to the response of the plants in their growing situation to determine what the soil may or may not need. I am curious as to what your new growing methods are since you mentioned a change from an almost purely scientific approach to a more naturalistic method somewhat facilitated by Abnshrek's advice :)
Lastly do any of you have any recommendations for easy crops? By easy I mean plants that do not require very rich soil/large amounts of nutrients (i.e., watermelon and corn) to put out reasonable yields. Such plants would be able to grow fairly well in less than stellar so that is sometime amended (i.e., pigeon peas, sweet potatoes, carrots). Thanks in advance for the plant suggestions! :D
from the sea
06-05-2014, 06:58 PM
i ether rinse with freshwater real quick then use as mulch or put it in a trash barrel and fill with water and let it rot, and use it water my plants and trees
Iunepeace
06-05-2014, 08:00 PM
Sounds similar to myself; I do remember a long time ago putting seaweed in a bucket with some water and it having liquefied after a few weeks. Is the freshwater rinsing very heavy? I was thinking of just laying it out on the grass and running over it with the hose
Also what's the dosage/dilution you use when watering with the liquid seaweed? :)
from the sea
06-05-2014, 08:40 PM
thata about as much as i rinse, i dilute the liquid 50/50
frankielove
06-11-2014, 08:25 AM
Lunepeace, I try to substitute coir for peat moss when I can. I believe that it's much more eco-friendly. It tends to be more pricey, but that could just be my location. I usually have to get it from the hydroponic store. I think the compressed brick forms are cheaper.
I'm new to bananas also, so I'm not sure about the pH.... I should test it. I have one SDC in a coir mixture and another in peat. I suppose it's a bit of an experiment. I live in a cold climate, so my main concern is getting a good -draining mixture and avoiding rot. I grow a lot of cactus and got really swept away by getting the perfect mix, but now I try not to overthink it. Drainage is my main concern. I guess what I'm saying is you can make it as simple or involved as you want. Add sunshine and fertliizer and you sound have success, right? Especially where you live!
Tortuga
06-11-2014, 01:32 PM
Lastly do any of you have any recommendations for easy crops? By easy I mean plants that do not require very rich soil/large amounts of nutrients (i.e., watermelon and corn) to put out reasonable yields. Such plants would be able to grow fairly well in less than stellar so that is sometime amended (i.e., pigeon peas, sweet potatoes, carrots). Thanks in advance for the plant suggestions! :D
It really depends on what you want it for, what you're planting it near, etc. Are you looking for a companion crop for bananas? Are you looking for something that puts out a lot of food? Or just something that will grow very well in poor soil?
If your soil is bad I'd recommend a combination of plants so that some will build soil nutrient while others are producing food.
Carrots and Radishes are two of the easiest to grow root crops that I've ever found, with radishes growing pretty quickly. Squash are also good, especially zucchini. I'd recommend planting 2 zucchini and building a small trellis for them to climb up. then after you harvest you'll have a bunch of material to chop up and use as green mulch to help build the soil.
Using any kind of legume will also help build nitrogen in the soil, but I recommend a ground cover between and around your food crops combining white and crimson clover, vetch, cowpea, and here and there some lupine (lupine grows a bit larger so don't try to plant too much). These can all be chopped and dropped regularly to help build soil, and each time they're cut back they will leave behind pockets of accessible nitrogen for your other plants.
You can also plant tomato in poor soil, you'll just have to monitor the water to make sure they don't get too wet or too dry (depending on your soil).
I'd recommend just saving a couple of egg shells the next time you make eggs and crushing those up, then sprinkling a couple of small pieces in with each plant you put in to provide some calcium.
You can also try to plant some deep rooting plants like horseradish or comfrey to mine nutrients from much farther below and bring them to the surface, then just chop the greens and drop them on the surface to make the nutrients and minerals available for shallower rooted plants. Be careful with comfrey, though, as it has a tendency to spread and take over if you don't have the area densely planted.
If you have a bit more space and want something larger to be a central item to this little ecosystem, I'd recommend a Moringa Oleifera tree. These grow quite well in crappy soil and provide very nutritious leaves and seed pods in abundance. The tree will not make excessive shade, so you can still grow a lot of crops underneath its canopy. Plant plenty of the ground cover mix around this tree to prevent competition and to increase soil fertility over time.
Hope this helps
Iunepeace
06-11-2014, 03:26 PM
Wow; more than helpful Tortuga! Thank you so much! :ha:
Tortuga
06-11-2014, 04:12 PM
Permaculture is a wonderful thing. I have a very tiny patch of dirt that was rock hard and basically useless. I tore it up a bit with a pic ax but only a couple inches deep. Then I piled on a big bag of compost, a bag of steer manure, and some goat manure I'd gotten from a friend. I threw in a hand full of mycorhizea spores, some radish, carrot, kale, collard green, lettuce, broccoli and clover seeds. I threw some red onion starts down over the dirt area, mixed up the compost/seed mixture and laid it about 2 inches thick across the top. The clovers came in first, followed shortly by everything else. I left the radishes and onions in the ground to break down and help build the soil while eating the radish greens. I cut most of the leafy greens as they were ready, leaving the roots behind to break down and become soil. Some greens I chopped and dropped, some I let go to seed to provide the next crop. I now have a rotation of greens and root vegetables that are always growing. When grasses grow up I just make sure they don't (a) block the food crops; or (b) go to seed. Otherwise I let them grow then chop and drop them as mulch.
I have more worms than I know what to do with and my soil is building all the time.
Iunepeace
06-11-2014, 04:59 PM
Beautiful story; almost made me tear up a bit :'D
skiarun
08-18-2014, 07:12 PM
I grow my banana plants in big pots on the patio (I've got no yard).
I mix my own soil and have had good results so far, though a few of the pups I transplanted recently have had a bit of transplant shock from very hot weather.
I use a lot of Kellogg's Grow Mulch and Cactus Mix (half and half). I also mix in a good deal of compost and manure. To keep water draining well I use a LOT of Pumice or Perilite (perhaps a 5th of the amount of soil). I've tossed in some course sand here and there too as well as some small rocks at the bottom of the huge containers.
I've become a fan of beneficial fungi, so, at planting I mix in a generous amount of mycorrhizal fungi (this can be either used directly as the white powder or found in organic fertilizers such as Dr. Earth, or other brands). There might be some really strange looking mushrooms growing from the pots every morning for a while....but that is a very good sign, not a disease. Ignore the mushrooms.
I also toss in a banana peel (chopped up) at least once a month. I often cover it with some cow or chicken manure.
Well, my soil is not scientific or exacting....it's more art than recipe.
In warm weather I use either bark mulch or grow mulch around the plant to retain more water (I live in very dry San Diego).
If my banana plants start to develop brown spots on the base then I know I have been over watering.
Some folks tell me I will never get bananas growing in a pot like this....but, my 6 month old Orinoco is now 7 feet tall and has put off 4 pups. I have every reason to believe I will be swimming in bananas next year (I hear it takes up to 9 months for bananas to develop once the flower shows up).
I also resurrected my Jamaican Red banana plant from the dead.
I'd planted it in the ground at a friend's yard.
It was NOT thriving there even though I'd prepared the soil well.
So, I dug it up and pulled off all the dead bits (nearly everything) and potted it.
Now it is very beautiful and nearly 3 feet tall. It liked the pot more than the ground.
Hopefully it will make pups so I can try the ground planting again without risking my only good Jamaican Red plant.
I loved reading that you were growing your bananas in pots.
We container farmers are a minority.
Let me know how your bananas are doing and what sort of soil has been working for you.
Your banana pal,
Mary
San Diego apartment farmer
Iunepeace
02-09-2015, 03:25 PM
Very nice Mary! We certainly are a minority but the rest don't know what they're missin' ;)
Here is my Super Dwarf Cavendish being grown in a container from summer 2014 to January of this year (started it in a 5 gallon as a pup and upped to 15 at the end of summer):
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57476&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57476)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57477&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57477)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=57478&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57478)
I admit I've been a bit irregular with fertilizing but the naner has still grown very well. I just picked up some Ammonium Sulfate (with my hard tap water I need as much acidification as I can get) and will try to keep up a better regimen and see how they respond. Also have some slow-release Sunniland 6-4-6 Citrus Avocado & Mango fertilizer that I will add a couple tablespoons of to the container. How are your bananas? :)
emeoba69
06-05-2015, 12:44 PM
Question. Ive searched with the search function but haven't found any replies. Sorry if this is a retread/
I recently have been using what's known as "Al's Gritty Mix" for my succulents, Aloe and Jades mostly. It contains and equal mix of Granite grit, Turface, and pine bark fines. He suggest adding Foliage Pro as an amendment. Here's a link to someone speaking with him about it when making the soilless mix for some container lemon trees:
Al's Gritty Mix -- A Learning Experinece (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1382584/als-gritty-mix-a-learning-experinece)
I was wondering if this would be a good mix, at least in part, for container banana trees? I have plenty of peat moss and perlite for the soil mix recommended here a lot. But I have a lot of the gritty mix ingredients laying around and wondered if maybe adding 50% gritty mix/50% peat moss: perlite (or what ever might make a good ratio) would be good for fast draining? Ive seen plenty suggestions that use cactus mix, which this really is minus any sand.
Ive also used Al's 5-1-1 mix for my tomatoes and peppers. Which is 5 parts pine fines and one part peat moss and perlite each. Anyone suggest this?
I just got a banana tree from my great uncle and would like to pot up from the 5 gallon he gave me to 15. I do not know the species.
What says everyone?
Richard
06-05-2015, 04:05 PM
Question. ...
Hi there!
It'd be helpful if you'd add your location to your profile (http://www.bananas.org/member-emeoba69.html) -- just click on "User CP (http://www.bananas.org/usercp.php)" at the left of the blue bar near the top left of your screen.
Also, we're very interested to know what kind of bananas you're growing ... ornamental? ... fruiting? ... name given by seller?
Are you growing indoors? outdoors?
Those things will help greatly with advice about soil.
And if you'd like to introduce yourself in the Member Introductions (http://www.bananas.org/f11/) thread, lot's of folks are sure to welcome you!
emeoba69
06-05-2015, 04:16 PM
Hi there!
It'd be helpful if you'd add your location to your profile (http://www.bananas.org/member-emeoba69.html) -- just click on "User CP (http://www.bananas.org/usercp.php)" at the left of the blue bar near the top left of your screen.
Also, we're very interested to know what kind of bananas you're growing ... ornamental? ... fruiting? ... name given by seller?
Are you growing indoors? outdoors?
Those things will help greatly with advice about soil.
And if you'd like to introduce yourself in the Member Introductions (http://www.bananas.org/f11/) thread, lot's of folks are sure to welcome you!
Sorry I added my location. Cincinnati Ohio.
I don't know the specific cultivator my great uncle has been growing them for a few years and gave me one. He didn't know. From what he said they do produce fruit with proper care.
Im growing them in a container outside and will be over wintering them. I'd like to produce fruit if possible but they are mainly ornamental.
Richard
06-05-2015, 06:26 PM
Our local expert for your area (cincinnana (http://www.bananas.org/member-cincinnana.html)) is sure to chime in soon. If not, send him a PM.
Snarkie
06-14-2015, 01:03 PM
I use any kind of cheap potting mix, add a considerable amount of powdered pumice (Stall Dry) and use a dilute MiracleGro solution once a week. I also soak the roots initially, in a rooting stimulant. Works like a charm. Bananas naturally grow in very sandy soils, so don't worry about how sandy it may appear to you.
To answer a previous poster's note on variable pH in peat moss: As the peat gets wetter, it releases more of the tannins which mix with water to create tannic (no Spelchek, I didn't mean Titanic) acid. I'm not fond of peat in banana soils because it tends to hold moisture. Great for redwoods but horrible for bananas.
siege2050
06-15-2015, 09:24 AM
Whatever you do, if you bring in your bananas in the winter, dont use water absorbing crystals, or soil like the miracle grow moisture formula unless you are veryyyyy careful with watering, or you will get rot big time because of reduced light, heat, etc.
cincinnana
06-20-2015, 04:00 PM
To answer a previous poster's note on variable pH in peat moss: As the peat gets wetter, it releases more of the tannins which mix with water to create tannic (no Spelchek, I didn't mean Titanic) acid. I'm not fond of peat in banana soils because it tends to hold moisture. Great for redwoods but horrible for bananas.
You must be speaking about my post...LOL.
Where did you get the info from that says peat moss is bad for bananas?
And you have been growing bananas/plants for how long?
I need to convert you!:)
Snarkie
06-20-2015, 05:00 PM
Any medium that contains tannins will leach it into water. This is how tea is made. As the peat dries out, it releases less tannin, increasing the pH. When it gets wet again, it releases more tannins, decreasing the pH.
Peat is used to hold water in the soil, which is why it is added to light soils. Here in NC, where our dirt is nothing but red clay, adding peat would be like grinding up a Shamwow and adding it to the mix. Bad idea. That is why I don't use it in my banana soil. I do, however, use it along with sawdust in my redwood mixes because they like acidic soils of 4.5 and wet, well-drained soils.
While it is true that I am new to bananas, the laws of science do not change. I suppose if you are growing a banana in river sand, you would need to add peat to retain moisture. In clay, however, it is a bad idea.
cincinnana
06-20-2015, 06:44 PM
While it is true that I am new to bananas, the laws of science do not change. I suppose if you are growing a banana in river sand, you would need to add peat to retain moisture. In clay, however, it is a bad idea.
Sorry I disagree; peat moss is an awesome amendment in the soils.
Peat moss is an great organic when mixed with clay; while I agree it does temporarily change soil ph, it is somewhat negligible.
I mix/till organics in the gardens all the time .
When you are an experienced grower of plants in containers/ground .....you can change the laws of science and you (I) do it on a daily basis. You(snarkie) do it all the time as you state is your posts; and I do it as well .
So the comment that peat moss is "bad for bananas" is just incorrect advice.
PEAT IS AN AWESOME MEDIUM/MIX to grow your plants in.
And a peat moss based mix is is good for the plant in the ground or a container.
If one chooses to use sand as a medium to amend the soil, great do what works.
I will sometimesl use 8 cf a year on average and do not have a growth issue with it.
.https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3896/15032407102_d9dcfa7a8f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oUn1UN)
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Snarkie
06-21-2015, 11:32 AM
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and use what works the best for each of us. :nanadrink:
TropicalUpNorth
05-23-2020, 07:51 PM
Whatever you do, if you bring in your bananas in the winter, dont use water absorbing crystals, or soil like the miracle grow moisture formula unless you are veryyyyy careful with watering, or you will get rot big time because of reduced light, heat, etc.
I realize this is a very old post, but I am wondering what people here think of using this Moisture Control soil as part of a mix for my bananas & ensetes.
Possible ratios:
1 part Miracle-Gro Moisture Control
1 part screened perlite (1/4" screen)
1 part screened pine bark
1 part Miracle-Gro Moisture Control
1 part screened 1/4" hardwood lump charcoal
1 part screened NAPA Floor Dry (amorphous diatomaceous earth)
1-2 part screened perlite
1-2 parts screened bark
I also have some pea gravel I could screen, as well as chicken grit leftover from making Al's Gritty Mix that I could add.
These will ALL be containerized on a Minnesota patio and brought inside from mid September through Mid May.
1 large ensete will be in 55 gallon tote. I might have to repot it in September in order to have it inside.. is that advisable?
The other large ensete is going to have to make do with a smaller pot. The bananas will be thrown in 22"? Patio planters with decorative annuals.
I do not want them to ever flower (don't think I have to worry about that here lol!) But I wouldn't mind if they grew taller or "leafier" :08:
Thanks in advance!
TL;DR: Is Miraclegro Moisture Control OK for indoor bananas if it is 33% or less of soil mix?
kathy.cales
05-30-2020, 08:43 PM
I use Expert Potting Soil. It is cheaper than Miracle grow and I also put Jobs plant feeder spikes. 12 inch pot I use 2. My plants are growing and making babies like crazy!oh and I keep burying cut up banana peelings in the dirt about 3,2 inch pieces every two weeks. I 'm not an expert My 1st year growing bananas. But I will share what I do.
edwmax
05-31-2020, 07:59 AM
I realize this is a very old post, but I am wondering what people here think of using this Moisture Control soil as part of a mix for my bananas & ensetes.
Possible ratios:
1 part Miracle-Gro Moisture Control
1 part screened perlite (1/4" screen)
1 part screened pine bark
1 part Miracle-Gro Moisture Control
1 part screened 1/4" hardwood lump charcoal
1 part screened NAPA Floor Dry (amorphous diatomaceous earth)
1-2 part screened perlite
1-2 parts screened bark
I also have some pea gravel I could screen, as well as chicken grit leftover from making Al's Gritty Mix that I could add.
These will ALL be containerized on a Minnesota patio and brought inside from mid September through Mid May.
1 large ensete will be in 55 gallon tote. I might have to repot it in September in order to have it inside.. is that advisable?
The other large ensete is going to have to make do with a smaller pot. The bananas will be thrown in 22"? Patio planters with decorative annuals.
I do not want them to ever flower (don't think I have to worry about that here lol!) But I wouldn't mind if they grew taller or "leafier" :08:
Thanks in advance!
TL;DR: Is Miraclegro Moisture Control OK for indoor bananas if it is 33% or less of soil mix?
DON'T! .... Bananas like fresh water. The corm and pstem store a large amount of water for dryer times so there is no reason to use moisture control crystals in the pot. Thus the potting soil needs to be near dry before watering to promote healthy root growth.
Fast draining potting soil is a MUST. My course bark mix will drain water from 18-24 pots 20 to 30 sec. after pouring on top.
NAPA Floor Dry (oil dry, cat litter, ect....) is a dense clay and absorbs water the same as the moisture crystals. This moist tends to promote bacterial growth and root rot. The banana stores its pwn water. This is not recommended.
Just stick to a 50%-50% mix of commercial potting soil & perlite (vermiculite or course pine bank) and you nana plants will be ok.
Now the large ensete, why bring these in during the winter? Are not these also called 'snow bananas' and very cold hardy? ... You can easily setup a temp hoop house over these during the winter and uncover in the early spring. ... And can be used to protect other smaller plants too.
TropicalUpNorth
06-01-2020, 04:03 PM
DON'T! .... Bananas like fresh water. The corm and pstem store a large amount of water for dryer times so there is no reason to use moisture control crystals in the pot. Thus the potting soil needs to be near dry before watering to promote healthy root growth.
Fast draining potting soil is a MUST. My course bark mix will drain water from 18-24 pots 20 to 30 sec. after pouring on top.
NAPA Floor Dry (oil dry, cat litter, ect....) is a dense clay and absorbs water the same as the moisture crystals. This moist tends to promote bacterial growth and root rot. The banana stores its pwn water. This is not recommended.
Just stick to a 50%-50% mix of commercial potting soil & perlite (vermiculite or course pine bank) and you nana plants will be ok.
Now the large ensete, why bring these in during the winter? Are not these also called 'snow bananas' and very cold hardy? ... You can easily setup a temp hoop house over these during the winter and uncover in the early spring. ... And can be used to protect other smaller plants too.
Thank you so much for your reply :-) I ended up using a lot of bark because it was going to be too expensive to use all the perlite I had planned on. ($5 versus $20 for the same volume) I added a little lime with bark based on what I read online about pH. Hope they don't die, but if they do, I'll learn from it.
Regarding planting outside... I am a renter and live in a townhome complex, we aren't allowed to plant anything in ground -- patio containers only. :-(
Some musa are fairly cold hardy, but that's when planting in ground. Last year it got to -31F at my place.
Ensetes are cold hardy to 8 or 9a (depending on where you look) when planted in ground. North of that people dig them up and bring inside for winter.
Musa basjoo are very cold hardy, with the Missouri Botanical Garden suggesting zone 5-10, surviving temps of -10 if they are well mulched. However, according to them, if they are container plants they must be brought inside in zone 5-8. Container soils freeze quickly.
Our extreme frost depth is 42", but typically ranges 22-30". We are USDA zone 4b. I would love to know if there are Minnesotans that grow bananas & leave in ground over winter with the aid of a hoop house. That would be really cool.
I am planning on eventually moving west, to Oregon, so I'll have to learn a whole new way of growing. :-D but maybe someday,in ground bananas! :-D
Again thank you so much for replying, I will try not to overwater these guys. That's a great tip!
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