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View Full Version : My Ae Ae mat update.


bananimal
03-16-2014, 02:50 PM
Last fall I did 2 things to prevent the pup damp off that happened last season.

Pegged the main mama and shut off all irrigation to that area. The pegs shut off the growth of the mama which died off later when the short frost hit us. Theory being energy transfers to the suckers. Six pups surfaced and 2 are tall right now. Last seasons follow up is still hanging in there - right side of pic.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55769&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55769&ppuser=820)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55768&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55768&ppuser=820)

Richard
03-16-2014, 04:09 PM
... Theory being energy transfers to the suckers ...

I think "resources" would be a better description than "energy". :bananas_b

cincinnana
03-16-2014, 04:45 PM
I do not fully understand pegging, is this common practice to force growth to the pups?
Does it cause a slow death to the main stem or are you just starving it for the benefit of the pups without the true shock of just cutting it off.

mm4birds
03-16-2014, 06:43 PM
Did the main plant fruit or was this done because you thought it wouldn't make it through the winter? Also why peg as opposed to cutting the main plant down to 3-4 feet (would this not have the same affect? Why not just leave the main plant to produce more energy through the leaves which would stimulate growth of the corm?

PR-Giants
03-16-2014, 06:56 PM
By pinning the main plant, you're just preventing it from maturing and producing new leaves. The current leaves will continue to collect energy for their normal life expectancy and the corm and roots will continue to grow. It's a simple and extremely effective way of producing more pups without having to use the resources of the main corm.

This system prevents the problems associated with decapitation and false-decapitation.


I do not fully understand pegging, is this common practice to force growth to the pups?
Does it cause a slow death to the main stem or are you just starving it for the benefit of the pups without the true shock of just cutting it off.

I think "resources" would be a better description than "energy". :bananas_b

bananimal
03-16-2014, 08:19 PM
There were no leaves anymore. I said frost right? The pegged mama corm then did it's thing and shot the pups. I'll be digging out the 5 and 3 foot ones and pot them up. The remaining surface pups, as well as those still below, will be lifted together with the mama corm and go in a big pot. May get 6 to 10 more. Will probably plant it in a higher elevated location. The follow on will be on it's own to fruit in late summer.

Man ----- I lost 16 pups last winter --- not happening again!

The clever pegging idea came from a member just south of me. :bananas_b

PR-Giants
03-16-2014, 10:31 PM
There were no leaves anymore. I said frost right? The pegged mama corm then did it's thing and shot the pups. I'll be digging out the 5 and 3 foot ones and pot them up. The remaining surface pups, as well as those still below, will be lifted together with the mama corm and go in a big pot. May get 6 to 10 more. Will probably plant it in a higher elevated location. The follow on will be on it's own to fruit in late summer.

Man ----- I lost 16 pups last winter --- not happening again!

The clever pegging idea came from a member just south of me. :bananas_b

I'm almost sure that I said "normal life expectancy of the leaves", right?

What's normal after a frost?

... and southeast is more accurate.

Are you still getting positive growth on the smaller pups?

If not, you probably want to change your plans.

cincinnana
03-17-2014, 09:29 AM
By pinning the main plant, you're just preventing it from maturing and producing new leaves. The current leaves will continue to collect energy for their normal life expectancy and the corm and roots will continue to grow. It's a simple and extremely effective way of producing more pups without having to use the resources of the main corm.

This system prevents the problems associated with decapitation and false-decapitation.


I am intrigued by this method. Is there a maturity or size limitation for this to work and does your plant already have to be pupping?
Will this method force it to pup if no pups are visibly present?
I have done the decapitation method with positive results but I would like to try this hobbling method also.

Abnshrek
03-17-2014, 09:39 AM
I think Dan's use of this Method is spot on.. Other than a bent stem from a weather system or big corm weak mother for some reason.. and not wanting a sub-standard harvest.. I think Azomite or rooting hormone do the job.. :^)

mm4birds
03-17-2014, 11:17 AM
how do you peg a plant? any videos or literature on this technique?

bananimal
03-17-2014, 08:01 PM
I am intrigued by this method. Is there a maturity or size limitation for this to work and does your plant already have to be pupping?
Will this method force it to pup if no pups are visibly present?
I have done the decapitation method with positive results but I would like to try this hobbling method also.

No to the first question. Yes to the second. As long as the mama corm isn't rotting. That's what I wanted to find out! Doesn't look like it. When I get the whole corm dug up I'll count the buds. And do surgery on any rot. The 2 big pups will be severed before I lift the main corm. To protect their roots.

bengal tiger nanas
03-17-2014, 08:26 PM
No to the first question. Yes to the second. As long as the mama corm isn't rotting. That's what I wanted to find out! Doesn't look like it. When I get the whole corm dug up I'll count the buds. And do surgery on any rot. The 2 big pups will be severed before I lift the main corm. To protect their roots.

and if the corm is rotting?what do you do?

cincinnana
03-17-2014, 08:32 PM
No to the first question. Yes to the second. As long as the mama corm isn't rotting. That's what I wanted to find out! Doesn't look like it. When I get the whole corm dug up I'll count the buds. And do surgery on any rot. The 2 big pups will be severed before I lift the main corm. To protect their roots.
Cool Thx ......more ? to follow.

bananimal
03-17-2014, 11:39 PM
and if the corm is rotting?what do you do?
Cut away or scoop out any rot. Like when a dentist drills out tooth decay -- stops when he gets to healthy material. If the majority of the corm mass is solid it will be fine when potted. I also sprinkle mycorrhizae powder on the roots. And add worm castings to the mix.

Richard
03-18-2014, 12:32 AM
Cut away or scoop out any rot. If the majority of the corm mass is solid it will be fine when potted. I also sprinkle mycorrhizae powder on the roots. And add worm castings to the mix.

And add a teaspoon of potassium sulfate.

bananimal
03-18-2014, 07:41 AM
And add a teaspoon of potassium sulfate.

Good tip thanks. Still have some 0-0-50 potassium sulfate ultra fines from Diamond K left over. I usually use it to force bloom faster.

PR-Giants
03-18-2014, 10:52 AM
I am intrigued by this method. Is there a maturity or size limitation for this to work and does your plant already have to be pupping?
Will this method force it to pup if no pups are visibly present?
I have done the decapitation method with positive results but I would like to try this hobbling method also.

It was originally explained to Dan as a concept and very little thought was put into the idea.

"Insert 2 small pins at 90 degree angles that pass through the center shaft at nearly the same level."

I prefer to have the actual experience before giving advice, so I used my aeae to run the initial experiment. I regretted doing it immediately after inserting the first pin, the damage was slight but obvious and after about a half minute of profound thought the technique was replaced with a less evasive method. The original method is still very effective when implemented properly but clearly driving large stakes completely through the pseudostem would cause excessive damage.

Some the leaves on my aeae are still good and the corm is still producing healthy roots 5 months after being pinned.

PR-Giants
03-18-2014, 10:54 AM
Cut away or scoop out any rot. Like when a dentist drills out tooth decay -- stops when he gets to healthy material. If the majority of the corm mass is solid it will be fine when potted. I also sprinkle mycorrhizae powder on the roots. And add worm castings to the mix.

The "scoop da rot" method has the potential of working, but with the Hawaiian varieties I'd recommend confirming the actual cause of the rot first. If you don't have the proper equipment on site then send a sample out for a professional analysis. You might find that with the correct diagnosis it's easier to prevent the rot than it is trying to stop it. Adding worm castings will only exasperate the problem.

mm4birds
03-18-2014, 06:27 PM
I prefer to have the actual experience before giving advice, so I used my aeae to run the initial experiment. I regretted doing it immediately after inserting the first pin, the damage was slight but obvious and after about a half minute of profound thought the technique was replaced with a less evasive method. The original method is still very effective when implemented properly but clearly driving large stakes completely through the pseudostem would cause excessive damage.
what is the less evasive (invasive) method you are using?

cincinnana
03-18-2014, 08:07 PM
It was originally explained to Dan as a concept and very little thought was put into the idea.

"Insert 2 small pins at 90 degree angles that pass through the center shaft at nearly the same level."

I prefer to have the actual experience before giving advice, so I used my aeae to run the initial experiment. I regretted doing it immediately after inserting the first pin, the damage was slight but obvious and after about a half minute of profound thought the technique was replaced with a less evasive method. The original method is still very effective when implemented properly but clearly driving large stakes completely through the pseudostem would cause excessive damage.

Some the leaves on my aeae are still good and the corm is still producing healthy roots 5 months after being pinned.
Thx for the answer.... More ? To follow...

bananimal
03-18-2014, 08:52 PM
The rot problem only happened in a few cases. Usually with just potted corms that were in the pot 2 years or longer. With the return of warm weather rot is no longer an issue.

PR-Giants
03-19-2014, 10:26 PM
The rot problem only happened in a few cases. Usually with just potted corms that were in the pot 2 years or longer. With the return of warm weather rot is no longer an issue.

Man ----- I lost 16 pups last winter --- not happening again!

In the tropics corm rot is especially bad with the Hawaiian varieties and waiting for the return of warm weather is not an option.

The aeae corm you sent me last March was severely rotted and continued to rot. I tried many of the methods on the Org and at best some seemed to only slow the progression. I was losing and clearly running out of time and like Winston Churchill said "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing after they've tried everything else.", so I had a sample analyzed.

This is a photo about 50 days after I received it, as you can see the rot was getting very close to the growing point.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=52738 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=52738)

Hammocked Banana
03-21-2014, 12:02 PM
What were the results of the analysis?

bananimal
03-24-2014, 08:38 AM
Side note --- Keith's grass barrel method saved this Ae mat and I have healthy pups this year.

Funny thing though - I changed out the blades on my lawn tractor to GATOR MULCHING BLADES. They chop up the grass so fine there isn't much to rake up. Unless I let the lawn go to 6 inches. lol:08:

The Gator Mulcher - The best mower replacement blade (http://www.gatorblade.com/)

The trailing fins at the rear of the blades suspend the grass longer in the deck. What gets ejected is much finer that a standard blade and returns to the soil.