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Richard
11-06-2013, 04:01 PM
After 2 years of discussions, trial formulations, and testing I have ... one pound of 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel! The remainder (several tons) will hopefully arrive by Christmas and I'll offer it for sale in 5 & 25 pound bags.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55115&size=1

Abnshrek
11-06-2013, 04:11 PM
Is it water Soluble or Granular? :^)

Richard
11-06-2013, 04:57 PM
Is it water Soluble or Granular? :^)

It's water soluble and appears to be very stable in ordinary tap water.

Abnshrek
11-06-2013, 05:29 PM
(several tons) will hopefully arrive by Christmas and I'll offer it for sale in 5 & 25 pound bags.

Something to looks forward to after the Holiday.. You would've said New Years would've a new resolution for my banana's.. :^)

Olafhenny
11-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Hi Richard,

I am afraid that, if you want to put emphasis on greater fruit production 16-08-24 is not
the way to go. While for any part of the plant you need all three components, as a rule
of the thumb, which I have repeatedly posted here, you need to pronounce:
• Nitrogen for leaves and plant mass development
• Phosphates for bloom and fruit
• Potassium for root and plant strength

Do not take my word for it, but look in here: TinyURL.com/27tn754

QUOTE excerpt:
• The first number in a fertilizer formula is the nitrogen content.....
Nitrogen is
used by plants for producing leaf growth and greener, lusher leaves.
• The second number in a fertilizer formula is the phosphorus content.....
Phosphorus
is used by plant to increase fruit development and to produce a strong root system.
• The third number in a fertilizer formula is the potassium (potash) content.....
Potassium is used by plants for flower color and size. It is also important to the strength
of the plant.
UNQUOTE

With 16-08-24 you are de-emphasizing fruit development.
Best,
Olaf

Richard
11-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Hi Richard,
I am afraid that, if you want to put emphasis on greater fruit production 16-08-24 is not
the way to go. ...


Olaf,
The source you have quoted has overgeneralized the situation. For fruit production in most plants, 2:1:3 is exactly the ratio to obtain maximum production -- provided the combination of minors, micros, and everything else in the environment is excellent as well.

cincinnana
11-07-2013, 11:03 PM
It's water soluble and appears to be very stable in ordinary tap water.
From all of us.....Thank you for your advice, It is water soluble and very stable in ordinary tap water:woohoonaner:
........and it does not contain hidden micro nutes such as b.s. and h.s. and azomite:08:

Richard
11-07-2013, 11:45 PM
I sent the sample to A & L Western Labs (http://www.al-labs-west.com/) for testing. I should have the results back next week and we'll go from there.

Richard
11-19-2013, 11:38 PM
Woohoo! I have lab tests in hand and we are going into production! When I have product in hand I'll send out another note and it will be available online. :08:

Richard
11-27-2013, 04:59 AM
Looks like I'll have inventory by Christmas.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55276&size=1

dana mastro
11-27-2013, 05:15 AM
ever thought of adding trace minerals so u can have 2 in 1! just a thought I think trace minerals is essential in all happy gardens

sunfish
11-27-2013, 01:17 PM
ever thought of adding trace minerals so u can have 2 in 1! just a thought I think trace minerals is essential in all happy gardens

These ones ?


eight micronutrients: boron (B), chlorine (Cl), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), manganese (Mn), molybdenum (Mo), zinc (Zn) and nickel (Ni) (1987).

Abnshrek
11-27-2013, 01:38 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55276&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55276)

dana mastro
11-27-2013, 02:55 PM
Calcium-phosphate (Ca-p) instead of (Ca)
Sulfur trioxide (SO3)
Phosphorous pentoxide (P5O5)
And I saw that you had the basic magnesium but could also include a profound break down other materials like
Magnesium oxide (MgO) OR Manganese oxide (Mn2O3)

I might not know much about bananas but im pretty good in chem. and these elements I just realized they were all water soluble some I described cannot be water soluble so I definitely understand why their not there in the first place but you can mix up two together to make the perfect fertilizer most of these elements I described can be in rock dust such as azomite besides the (Ca-P) but I think simply mixing the two will be such a good boost profitable for you and its a WIN WIN situation you put a little extra time we get an incredible product :woohoonaner:

GreenFin
11-27-2013, 04:52 PM
Looks like I'll have inventory by Christmas.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55276&size=1
Congrats, Richard! :bananas_b Gotta respect the time and effort you put into this, hope it takes off for you!

Richard
11-27-2013, 04:54 PM
... to make the perfect fertilizer ...

I'm very happy with the 3 years and $7k I invested in the research and development of this formula. If someone thinks they can do better, then I invite them to do so!
:)

crazy banana
11-27-2013, 07:36 PM
I'm very happy with the 3 years and $7k I invested in the research and development of this formula. If someone thinks they can do better, then I invite them to do so!
:)

To make that all worth while: can I be your official first customer? :08:😉 can pre-pay
Mail, drop off or pick-up ...
Happy Thanksgiving!

GreenFin
11-27-2013, 09:51 PM
Richard, do you recommend your Fruit Fuel for hydroponic use? If so, does it provide a 'complete diet' for bananas or would it need something to complement it?

Richard
11-27-2013, 10:06 PM
Richard, do you recommend your Fruit Fuel for hydroponic use? If so, does it provide a 'complete diet' for bananas or would it need something to complement it?

It's for plants grown in biologically active soil. For annual fruits (including bananas) grown hydroponically in inert media, check this out:
Hydroponic Annual Fruit (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/retail-hydroponic-annual-fruit.html)

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 09:57 AM
JISA / Agriculture fertilizers :: Agronutrients :: Fertilizers for agriculture Cristaljisa 16-8-24 (http://www.fertilizantesyabonos.com/english/products/npk-soluble-fertilizers/cristaljisa-16-8-24)

so this guy did the same. has the same product but with
Potassium oxide
Phosphorus pentoxide
Ammoniacal nitrogen 9% instead of 4.4%

so this guys did pretty much what I was saying
and he can use it as a Foliar application! more like 3 in 1 ! so sorry you wasted 3 years of your life and 7 k just to make a less working product than the leading fruit enhancing fertilizers :( maybe you should go back to chemistry class. because people who have used this product have also grown the worlds largest tomato's so you cant say his stuff is garbage.....

(K2O2) and tripe super phosphates are the two main ingredient's for a larger production in fruit (makes the flowers bigger to make them produce bigger and better with more lycopene. (sweeter tastier)

here's the formula for nitric a nitrogen compound that will enhance all fruit productions by 16% and what miracle grow company try's to always get there hands on to make super products! its always at a limited supply and so little companies like your self can never get your hands on it 4 NO + O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO2

so straight to the point......my teacher is professor Griffiths and he works at the U of I in Moscow and made it very clear to me he said and I quote "its like baking bread with no yeast" :moosenaner: so your product is not bad it will work but don't be thinking your the first person to do this.....im just saying jisa has worked harder and that's been doing it for 15 years rather than 3. so putting 7k is nothing compared to over 30k in what you call research. If I were you I would have spent that money to get into college.

Abnshrek
11-28-2013, 10:07 AM
Boy you sure can tell its not summer no more.... Growing fruit isn't comparable to growing tomato's especially Tomato's to Banana's as much as you'd like to, doesn't make much sense.. :^)

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 10:29 AM
you are right I don't know much about bananas first time actually but its common sense if you use rock dust,mykos,azos,cal carb, and not just micro elements but all trace minerals and compounded nitrates your going to yelled better fruit no matter what. if its a banana or if its tomato's the best gardener puts everything in its soil. they don't just look at the NPK ratio and calls it good lol that's silly talk in science!

ps: there's just no analysis so he's spent 3 years and doesn't know how much this improves the brick score?

sunfish
11-28-2013, 10:42 AM
JISA / Agriculture fertilizers :: Agronutrients :: Fertilizers for agriculture Cristaljisa 16-8-24 (http://www.fertilizantesyabonos.com/english/products/npk-soluble-fertilizers/cristaljisa-16-8-24)

so this guy did the same. has the same product but with
Potassium oxide
Phosphorus pentoxide
Ammoniacal nitrogen 9% instead of 4.4%

so this guys did pretty much what I was saying
and he can use it as a Foliar application! more like 3 in 1 ! so sorry you wasted 3 years of your life and 7 k just to make a less working product than the leading fruit enhancing fertilizers :( maybe you should go back to chemistry class. because people who have used this product have also grown the worlds largest tomato's so you cant say his stuff is garbage.....

(K2O2) and tripe super phosphates are the two main ingredient's for a larger production in fruit (makes the flowers bigger to make them produce bigger and better with more lycopene. (sweeter tastier)

here's the formula for nitric a nitrogen compound that will enhance all fruit productions by 16% and what miracle grow company try's to always get there hands on to make super products! its always at a limited supply and so little companies like your self can never get your hands on it 4 NO + O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO2

so straight to the point......my teacher is professor Griffiths and he works at the U of I in Moscow and made it very clear to me he said and I quote "its like baking bread with no yeast" :moosenaner: so your product is not bad it will work but don't be thinking your the first person to do this.....im just saying jisa has worked harder and that's been doing it for 15 years rather than 3. so putting 7k is nothing compared to over 30k in what you call research. If I were you I would have spent that money to get into college.

Not sure this is a little company since
Grow More | A Symbol of Quality (http://www.growmore.com/products/type/fertilizers.html)

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 10:59 AM
new fertilizer company's cant get their hands on certain chemicals jisa can miracle grow can and other really old company's and that's why they are still in business with leading brands they try to shut down companys like this and because they are old its old guys get first serve so they purchase all they can get.

and if you can just show all of us the brick count and the difference it gives from your fertilizer and normal application then I wont bother your product....I promise

you can put your product on your bananas all you want but until you get an analysis
you really don't know how beneficial your product really is.

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 11:01 AM
you can get any fruit analyzed by most colleges and they sometimes even do it for free!
like here in Idaho they even do free soil test for you.

sunfish
11-28-2013, 11:07 AM
you are right I don't know much about bananas first time actually but its common sense if you use rock dust,mykos,azos,cal carb, and not just micro elements but all trace minerals and compounded nitrates your going to yelled better fruit no matter what. if its a banana or if its tomato's the best gardener puts everything in its soil. they don't just look at the NPK ratio and calls it good lol that's silly talk in science!

ps: there's just no analysis so he's spent 3 years and doesn't know how much this improves the brick score?

brix

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 11:18 AM
brix/brick same thing

just get the stuff analyzed and post the report.


I know I am being rude about this discussion I apologize but if you have proof of what you have (trial formulations, and testing) primarily the testing then people like me that want to purchase stuff over the market/internet wont think this is a scam.

because in all reality I can be on this site for 7 years and found a huge sale on fertilizer and buy it all up and then just say hey guys I made this awesome stuff ill sell to you cheap and its the best stuff you can get........that's my perspective on it

Abnshrek
11-28-2013, 11:27 AM
you can get any fruit analyzed by most colleges and they sometimes even do it for free!
like here in Idaho they even do free soil test for you.

That reminds of me of one thing.. :^)

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCYue3OQdHyXFTRNApvEEd6xrg3aapm0K3Swr0KdDy6c0 WzIbCsw

They going to get an soil analysis done.. :^)

Richard
11-28-2013, 02:01 PM
JISA / Agriculture fertilizers :: Agronutrients :: Fertilizers for agriculture Cristaljisa 16-8-24 (http://www.fertilizantesyabonos.com/english/products/npk-soluble-fertilizers/cristaljisa-16-8-24)

so this guy did the same. has the same product

Nope. You'll see they are missing some components and the ratios are not the same. I'm also sure the chelation agent is not what we chose.

It is true that fertilizers with this N-P-K (16-8-24) and the complimentary ratio 2:1:3 are in existence -- and for good reason. Certainly my supplier already makes the formula you listed above. But it did not go far enough.

If I were you I would have spent that money to get into college.

I appreciate your concern :)

I spent 3 decades as a scientist in both the public and private sector and in the evenings taught at 5 universities over the same time span. I have published many papers in my career, both as a primary and joint author. After 9-11 when my employer's clients were killed in the world trade center, I spent a few years trying various vocations and then started my present business.

For this project, I hired 3 PhDs from major agricultural universities, consulted another dozen, paid for trial formulations and lab tests. I think we got it right.
:08:

GreenFin
11-28-2013, 03:06 PM
JISA / Agriculture fertilizers :: Agronutrients :: Fertilizers for agriculture Cristaljisa 16-8-24 (http://www.fertilizantesyabonos.com/english/products/npk-soluble-fertilizers/cristaljisa-16-8-24)

so this guy did the same. has the same product but with
Potassium oxide
Phosphorus pentoxide
Ammoniacal nitrogen 9% instead of 4.4%

so this guys did pretty much what I was saying
and he can use it as a Foliar application! more like 3 in 1 ! so sorry you wasted 3 years of your life and 7 k just to make a less working product than the leading fruit enhancing fertilizers :( maybe you should go back to chemistry class. because people who have used this product have also grown the worlds largest tomato's so you cant say his stuff is garbage.....

(K2O2) and tripe super phosphates are the two main ingredient's for a larger production in fruit (makes the flowers bigger to make them produce bigger and better with more lycopene. (sweeter tastier)

here's the formula for nitric a nitrogen compound that will enhance all fruit productions by 16% and what miracle grow company try's to always get there hands on to make super products! its always at a limited supply and so little companies like your self can never get your hands on it 4 NO + O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO2

so straight to the point......my teacher is professor Griffiths and he works at the U of I in Moscow and made it very clear to me he said and I quote "its like baking bread with no yeast" :moosenaner: so your product is not bad it will work but don't be thinking your the first person to do this.....im just saying jisa has worked harder and that's been doing it for 15 years rather than 3. so putting 7k is nothing compared to over 30k in what you call research. If I were you I would have spent that money to get into college.

Are you aware how rude and offensive you're being? You could EASILY engage in this conversation without being so rude, but you've chosen to be impolite, spiteful, and insulting. It's like you're trying to boost your self-esteem by trying to diss Richard and badmouth his contribution.

This is a positive, respectful, good board. I don't want to see it dragged down by that garbage.

jbyrd88888
11-28-2013, 03:53 PM
AMEN ! ! ! ! ! our Daisy here needs to unplug her keyboard if uneducated negativity is the only thing on her mind! ;)

dana mastro
11-28-2013, 04:03 PM
so I will never see those reports huh? okay enjoy buying some placebo fertilizers! I wasn't trying to be rude im trying to help get scams off the web boy.

Richard
11-28-2013, 04:15 PM
...

Boy are you bored. Go eat some turkey and mellow out :)

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!
:birthdaynana:

Abnshrek
11-28-2013, 04:21 PM
so I will never see those reports huh? okay enjoy buying some placebo fertilizers! I wasn't trying to be rude im trying to help get scams off the web boy.

No scams here... I do know using Richard's 15-10-30 helped me produce 12 flower's this year. Which is 3 bunches of fruit off and the rest left up to my Winterization plan.. I've seen what his product does for more than Banana's, whether it be Pineapples, Oranges, Lemon's, Grapefruit, or Olive Trees. Richard isn't new round here.. I don't know why you can't swallow a lil pride and be civil. :^)

crazy banana
11-28-2013, 04:27 PM
I have to agree with Green Fin. Please be more respectful whatever you post.
On a different note: I have checked Professor Griffith biography and publications. Impressive, but I am not sure that he is a key expert on a topic like this. However, I have send him an Email with an invitation to join the discussion on this forum. Sometimes it just seems better to hear it "straight from the horses mouth" than from someone who has not finished his/her studies yet.

And just my two cents: I am by far no master gardener, but I do try to educate myself as much as I can with some good results. IMO, the best gardeners DO NOT put just everything and anything in the soil, because certain fertilizer and pesticides will harm myself and the environment. Gardening is fun, but I seriously do not care if I have 2 more fruits than my neighbor or the monster "Fair" winning tomato.
Thanks for all you are doing, Richard and Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. You are making a lot more sense then someone trying to make (no) point by using rude comments.

kubali
11-28-2013, 04:42 PM
Nope. You'll see they are missing some components and the ratios are not the same. I'm also sure the chelation agent is not what we chose.

It is true that fertilizers with this N-P-K (16-8-24) and the complimentary ratio 2:1:3 are in existence -- and for good reason. Certainly my supplier already makes the formula you listed above. But it did not go far enough.



I appreciate your concern :)

I spent 3 decades as a scientist in both the public and private sector and in the evenings taught at 5 universities over the same time span. I have published many papers in my career, both as a primary and joint author. After 9-11 when my employer's clients were killed in the world trade center, I spent a few years trying various vocations and then started my present business.

For this project, I hired 3 PhDs from major agricultural universities, consulted another dozen, paid for trial formulations and lab tests. I think we got it right.
:08:
>>>Richard<<<<
Keep up the good work my friend......My dad always taught me, there's one in every crowd...

Nicolas Naranja
11-28-2013, 11:33 PM
Just as an FYI. Fertilizer is reported as oxides for several nutrients. So even though the label says K2O and P2O5, Richard was probably using fertilizers like diammonium phosphate and potassium nitrate as the actual sources o f P and K. All I will say otherwise is please do not put that phosphorus out in Florida on bananas.

Calcium-phosphate (Ca-p) instead of (Ca)
Sulfur trioxide (SO3)
Phosphorous pentoxide (P5O5)
And I saw that you had the basic magnesium but could also include a profound break down other materials like
Magnesium oxide (MgO) OR Manganese oxide (Mn2O3)

I might not know much about bananas but im pretty good in chem. and these elements I just realized they were all water soluble some I described cannot be water soluble so I definitely understand why their not there in the first place but you can mix up two together to make the perfect fertilizer most of these elements I described can be in rock dust such as azomite besides the (Ca-P) but I think simply mixing the two will be such a good boost profitable for you and its a WIN WIN situation you put a little extra time we get an incredible product :woohoonaner:

JW
11-29-2013, 12:17 AM
Let me get a bag when it is available and test it on some of MY OWN plants.

If the results are better then anything else I try, and it is safe to use, I could care less about this argument. Actual results trump theory.

sunfish
11-29-2013, 12:54 AM
I use whatever I have laying around

dana mastro
11-29-2013, 02:43 AM
1 ton of fertilizer (this stuff 16-8-24) is about 500-700bucks per ton
1 ton = 2200 pounds
divide that up in 25 pound bags that 88 bags
lets say I want to sell my 25 pound bags dirt cheap lets say 15 bucks
15 X 88 = 1320 - (500-700) bucks from that 620-820 profit
and that's with me selling 25pound bags. the profit on 5 pound bags is ridiculous! my main variable was the price at (15 bucks per 25 pound bag)!! so in reality if his bags cost more his profit on this is really high. and you have all been buying this for how long?
if i'm spending this much on fertilizer I better get some pixie dust included

when he tells you the price on his bags do this
( PRICE x 88= ? - (500-700) = his profit )

sorry if I made all of you rage on thanksgiving lol goble goble goble.
and saying that he has (several tons) just shows that he bought in BULK so he got even more of a discount. and if he's gonna say he had to buy the materials (500-700$ per ton) at a much higher price. don't be fooled....if he's been a scientist for 30 years and worked in universities like he claims to be then he can get this dirt cheap! :2740: :2740: :2740:

sddarkman619
11-29-2013, 02:25 PM
brix/brick same thing

just get the stuff analyzed and post the report.


I know I am being rude about this discussion I apologize but if you have proof of what you have (trial formulations, and testing) primarily the testing then people like me that want to purchase stuff over the market/internet wont think this is a scam.

because in all reality I can be on this site for 7 years and found a huge sale on fertilizer and buy it all up and then just say hey guys I made this awesome stuff ill sell to you cheap and its the best stuff you can get........that's my perspective on it


"I know I am being rude about this discussion"

Period.

wolfyhound
11-29-2013, 02:27 PM
Frankly I don't care to read rude youngsters trying to sound self-important. Dana this isn't Facebook.

Richard, looking forward to your fertilizer. As far as I'm concerned, your professional attitude with 30 yrs experience trumps a hundred rude folks quoting someone they may have talked to in general who doesn't specialize in bananas or fertilizers.

Richard
11-29-2013, 02:38 PM
1 ton of fertilizer (this stuff 16-8-24) is about 500-700bucks per ton

Contact the Grow More (http://growmore.com/) factory. They will give you an exact quote. Note that they only manufacture in pallet quantities.


1 ton = 2200 pounds
divide that up in 25 pound bags that 88 bags


Actually a U.S. ton is 2000 lbs, so that's 80 bags per pallet.

The factory will not ship the product to you for free, so be sure to figure in the transportation cost.

Other realities you might want to figure into your cost analysis are the cost of packaging, running a web site etc.

------------

Now all that said, I could really care less if I sell any of it to Bananas.org members. For me, this thread has been about sharing part of my life.

Many of my customers buy by the pallet. On annual average, there are 10k to 30k visitors to my site per day and I have a 0.5% conversion rate.

Dana, I appreciate your desire to protect people from scams. This time though, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Happy Holidays! :)

dana mastro
11-29-2013, 03:40 PM
well I messaged media hound, so he can decide if this is a scam or not. because clearly I don't own this site so I have no authority to say what's a scam or not.

crazy banana
11-29-2013, 03:51 PM
It is not a scam.
We appreciate your concerns, but most of us have done successful business with Richard in the past and for years. I have met him in person as an extremely knowledgeable and dedicated person. His wonderful reputation is not only known here on bananas.org but also at the CRFG and other sources.
No matter what: please be more respectful and choose your words more wisely when posting on this forum.

jbyrd88888
11-29-2013, 04:11 PM
Edit: ;)
I will watch this for updates, and avoid antagonizing.

harveyc
11-29-2013, 04:14 PM
Dana, you have acknowledged being rude in this discussion. That is not acceptable. Any further discussion with this tone will earn you being awarded a temporary ban. I believe you have made your points already so there is no useful purpose in you continuing the discussion along the lines you've taken.

MediaHound is the owner and administrator of the forum but I do not know his current activity level here and I've been the primary person for handling moderator responsibilities for some time. Of course, MediaHound can overrule any decision I make on the matter if he so chooses.

crazy banana
11-29-2013, 04:19 PM
Jbyrd: Leave out the "wtf" and the translation is pretty close.

wolfyhound
11-29-2013, 05:20 PM
Thank you Jbyrd for contacting the poor professor. I was going to send him a message but wasn't certain he would get it due to the holidays.

Barely over a hundred posts but calls a long time experienced member who gave his qualifications a "scammer". I know who I would buy from, sell to or want to even talk to.

Richard, since you said the fertilizer is water soluble, does that mean that fertilizers that are dissolved in water first(like how you apply miracle gro type powders) are better or that fertilizers should dissolve in water period to be absorbed better? The special banana fertilizer I bought is granules that you apply as-is.

sddarkman619
11-29-2013, 06:20 PM
This chick is a TROLL. Don't feed the TROLL anymore fertilizer.

Richard
11-29-2013, 06:33 PM
... Richard, since you said the fertilizer is water soluble, does that mean that fertilizers that are dissolved in water first (like how you apply miracle gro type powders) are better ...

In many cases yes, but it is complicated.

To begin, let's differentiate between a "complete fertilizer" and a "supplement". Some supplements are only available (or affordable) in non-soluble form and need to be worked into the mulch above the soil/root zone. Then, over a season or two they will break down from rain and/or irrigation water into a desirable form. Notice you might have to start 6 to 9 months ahead of any planting.

Another angle to consider is whether we are using the outdated method of "maintaining soil levels" of nutrients or instead, maintaining a soil with good texture, pH, etc. but "feeding the plants" more directly with a water-soluble. The practice by large-scale agriculture of "maintaining the soil levels" with granular 15-15-15 or similar is the major cause of nitrate pollution of ground water in California and elsewhere. Further, they must over-feed because with the granular form of nitrogen about 1/2 will escape to the air due to soil-water-fertilizer interactions. So it seems cheaper but actually it is not if you consider how much is actually absorbed by the plants.

As long as we are considering the environment, Nicholas made the excellent comment in this thread that folks growing in the ground in the Florida peninsula already have intense concentrations of Phosphates. Adding more is tipping a delicate eco-balance which is why phosphates are banned in lawn fertilizers sold in Florida.

I also want to acknowledge that there are many farmers in the world who only "irrigate" by rainfall. A large fraction of these farmers either don't have access to or can't afford a means of applying a water-soluble.

wolfyhound
11-29-2013, 06:50 PM
Good information all around.

Here I think we have a overabundance of water in the form of rain. I had to make raised beds for most of my plantings, and I'm on a sand hill.

PR-Giants
12-02-2013, 11:23 AM
60 cents per pound is not dirt cheap.

10-5-20 is 30 cents per pound retail in PR, and most consider that too expensive.

If you want 60 cents per pound, you'll need a catchy name & a nice package.

1 ton of fertilizer (this stuff 16-8-24) is about 500-700bucks per ton
1 ton = 2200 pounds
divide that up in 25 pound bags that 88 bags
lets say I want to sell my 25 pound bags dirt cheap lets say 15 bucks
15 X 88 = 1320 - (500-700) bucks from that 620-820 profit
and that's with me selling 25pound bags. the profit on 5 pound bags is ridiculous! my main variable was the price at (15 bucks per 25 pound bag)!! so in reality if his bags cost more his profit on this is really high. and you have all been buying this for how long?
if i'm spending this much on fertilizer I better get some pixie dust included

when he tells you the price on his bags do this
( PRICE x 88= ? - (500-700) = his profit )

sorry if I made all of you rage on thanksgiving lol goble goble goble.
and saying that he has (several tons) just shows that he bought in BULK so he got even more of a discount. and if he's gonna say he had to buy the materials (500-700$ per ton) at a much higher price. don't be fooled....if he's been a scientist for 30 years and worked in universities like he claims to be then he can get this dirt cheap! :2740: :2740: :2740:

wolfyhound
12-02-2013, 12:23 PM
I don't really see that it matters how much the bulk ingredients cost. Only someone who hasn't ever actually produced anything for sale would only count the cost of the base ingredients in the cost of production.

Not only do you have the ingredients, the shipping or delivery, the bagging costs, the testing and trials, your own time, any monies spent to experts for consultation... with all that, if he makes a good profit, great for him! Smaller bags of anything cost more per/weight than larger bags or bulk amounts. Even buying flour works that way.

I know I spent a lot about $0.50/lb for my specialty fertilizer, and it's a commercially made granule, not made by someone who specifically worked on a banana fertilizer for years to perfect it. BUT I only bought one bag, and if I bought it by the ton(2000 lbs) then I'm sure it would be lots less pricy. However, I'd be up the creek if I had a ton of fertilizer here. In fact, the NSA might come looking to see why I needed it all! LOL!

Richard
01-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Today my first order of the year arrived, complete with Fruit Fuel! My yard is under construction with no driveway so the pallets were deposited on the street. A hand-truck, wheelbarrow, and an hour later it was tucked away in the garage.
Grow More 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel, 5-pound bag (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-16-8-24-ff-5lb.html)
Grow More 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel, 25-pound bag (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-16-8-24-ff-25lb.html)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55602&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55601&size=1

crazy banana
01-20-2014, 09:15 PM
Cannot wait to try it.
Should be good for my apricots, too?!

Richard
01-20-2014, 10:32 PM
Cannot wait to try it.
Should be good for my apricots, too?!

You bet!

Bender
01-21-2014, 07:21 PM
Today my first order of the year arrived, complete with Fruit Fuel! My yard is under construction with no driveway so the pallets were deposited on the street. A hand-truck, wheelbarrow, and an hour later it was tucked away in the garage.
Grow More 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel, 5-pound bag (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-16-8-24-ff-5lb.html)
Grow More 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel, 25-pound bag (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-16-8-24-ff-25lb.html)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55602&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55601&size=1

These guys have been around for awhile.

Grow More | A Symbol of Quality (http://www.growmore.com/company/about-us/our-profile.html)

Richard
02-11-2014, 06:57 PM
Note [3/27/2014]: This discussion is continued here: http://www.bananas.org/f312/fruit-fuel-fertilizers-20052.html

Feeding time! I have yet to install irrigation, so I hooked up one of the fertigators to my hose line and gave my fruiting plants their first feeding of the year. After I install the irrigation, I'll create "docks" for the fertigators so I can feed various plant groups indepedently; e.g., fruiting plants, leafy vegetables, tubors, herbs. The unit you see in the picture is a Dosatron D14MZ2 (http://www.dosatronusa.com/products/product-catalogue/d14mz2-14-gpm.aspx) attached to the back of a Dosatron cart (http://www.dosatronusa.com/products/product-catalogue/dosacart.aspx).

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55587&size=1

crazy banana
05-27-2014, 12:23 AM
Note [3/27/2014]: This discussion is continued here: http://www.bananas.org/f312/fruit-fuel-fertilizers-20052.html

Feeding time! I have yet to install irrigation, so I hooked up one of the fertigators to my hose line and gave my fruiting plants their first feeding of the year. After I install the irrigation, I'll create "docks" for the fertigators so I can feed various plant groups indepedently; e.g., fruiting plants, leafy vegetables, tubors, herbs. The unit you see in the picture is a Dosatron D14MZ2 (http://www.dosatronusa.com/products/product-catalogue/d14mz2-14-gpm.aspx) attached to the back of a Dosatron cart (http://www.dosatronusa.com/products/product-catalogue/dosacart.aspx).

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55587&size=1

Richard, I remembered that you were using the Dosatron products. I am just fine with my 5 gallon water bucket and measuring out my fruit fuel with a measure cup.
However, one neighbor was walking by and suggesting to use something like the Miracle Gro garden feeder. I personally think that would not be that precise than my more work intensive water bucket, but would like to get your input on this.
My newly planted fruit trees and the banana pups I got from you last fall are getting half of what my big established banana mats get (one bucket vs two for the mats)but I strongly feel that the mats could use even more....Sure it would be nice to make it less labor intensive, but so far my labor has always paid of compared to the neighbors yard ;) But a Dosatron is out of my budget.

Richard
05-27-2014, 12:43 AM
Richard, I remembered that you were using the Dosatron products. I am just fine with my 5 gallon water bucket and measuring out my fruit fuel with a measure cup.

Having been to your house, I would say that method is a good match to the number of plants you are feeding.

However, one neighbor was walking by and suggesting to use something like the Miracle Gro garden feeder. I personally think that would not be that precise than my more work intensive water bucket, but would like to get your input on this.

The Miracle Gro Marketing Corp. actually has two dispenser products, one made for their Miracle Gro fertilizer packets and the other labeled "Ortho Dial N' Spray". The latter is a good product for dispensing liquids (I use it for pesticides) but otherwise a pain-in-the-calculator for your application.

My newly planted fruit trees and the banana pups I got from you last fall are getting half of what my big established banana mats get (one bucket vs two for the mats)but I strongly feel that the mats could use even more....Sure it would be nice to make it less labor intensive, but so far my labor has always paid of compared to the neighbors yard ;) But a Dosatron is out of my budget.

Yes, the Dosatron is an investment in infrastructure. You could consider the Grow More fertilizer injector (requires investment in a 5+ gallon bucket): Grow More 1:15 Siphon Mixer, 0.75-inch shrink wrap (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-siphon-mixer-card.html). I use this inline for my Vacciniums and Orchids.

crazy banana
05-27-2014, 12:54 AM
Well, no investment needed in another 5 gallon water bucket....
For now, I think I will stick with it, but next time I stock up on my fruit fuel, I will check back with you on the Siphon Mixer....
Btw: my new trees and the banana plants love the fruit fuel.

CGameProgrammer
05-27-2014, 05:42 PM
Sorry if I missed it but what do you charge for this fertilizer and how often or in what quantity do you recommend it to be applied?

Richard
05-27-2014, 06:37 PM
Sorry if I missed it but what do you charge for this fertilizer and how often or in what quantity do you recommend it to be applied?

Here's the details

Water-soluble version (recommended): Grow More 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel, 5-pound bag (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-16-8-24-ff-5lb.html)

Organic gardening version: Grow More Organic Fruit Fuel, 4.5-pound pail (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-organic-ff-pail.html)

CGameProgrammer
06-04-2014, 11:58 AM
I opened my newly-received bag of this fertilizer yesterday but it was clumped together like hard clay; obviously a lot of moisture had got in. Is it worthless or should it still be capable of doing its job? The clumps can be broken up by hand and most of the tablespoon I used dissolved in a gallon of cold water without any stirring. The color when dissolved in water was brown.

Richard
06-04-2014, 01:31 PM
I opened my newly-received bag of this fertilizer yesterday but it was clumped together like hard clay; obviously a lot of moisture had got in. Is it worthless or should it still be capable of doing its job? The clumps can be broken up by hand and most of the tablespoon I used dissolved in a gallon of cold water without any stirring. The color when dissolved in water was brown.

Actually, the only water in the bag was from the manufacturing process. The Calcium content in the fertilizer causes it to set. There is nothing wrong with the product, and as you noticed it is easily reduced to powder. The initial color of the product is grey, but will color the water brown due to the iron content.

Abnshrek
06-04-2014, 01:44 PM
Mine looked black almost in my auto-feeder, but I'm sure it works just as well as blue (Banana Fuel).. :^)

CGameProgrammer
06-04-2014, 01:45 PM
That's a relief! Thanks. I got concerned because I have a different Grow-More soluble fertilizer that is truly a powder so I assumed they all would be.

Abnshrek
06-04-2014, 01:50 PM
That's a relief! Thanks. I got concerned because I have a different Grow-More soluble fertilizer that is truly a powder so I assumed they all would be.

Banana Fuel did the same thing except got alot harder, but reduces in water really well.. :^)

austinl01
06-04-2014, 11:06 PM
Just wondering why the fuel wasn't made as granular as well?

Richard
06-05-2014, 01:13 AM
Just wondering why the fuel wasn't made as granular as well?

The Organic Fruit Fuel (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-organic-ff-pail.html) is in granular form.

Worm_Farmer
06-28-2014, 02:44 PM
The Organic Fruit Fuel (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/gm-organic-ff-pail.html) is in granular form.

Will the Organic be available in a bigger bag soon?

Richard
06-28-2014, 04:00 PM
Will the Organic be available in a bigger bag soon?

Grow More would typically package granular in 15-lb and 50-lb bags. I am considering 20-lb. Do you have a preference?

GreenFin
06-28-2014, 04:16 PM
I think we should add Fruit Fuel to the list of "Nursery Fertilizers" on the wiki: Info:Fertilizer - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Info:Fertilizer)

On a more general note, is it ok to fertilize transplanted bananas before they start actively growing again? Or is it better to wait for them to resume growth before adding the fertilizer?

Richard
06-28-2014, 04:56 PM
... is it ok to fertilize transplanted bananas before they start actively growing again? Or is it better to wait for them to resume growth before adding the fertilizer?

If they have roots, yes -- provided the dosage is appropriate for the plant size and season.

Worm_Farmer
06-28-2014, 06:33 PM
Grow More would typically package granular in 15-lb and 50-lb bags. I am considering 20-lb. Do you have a preference?

IDK what shipping would cost on 50lb, but I could use 50lb a year. And that is not even on the bananas.

Richard
06-30-2014, 08:57 PM
IDK what shipping would cost on 50lb, but I could use 50lb a year. And that is not even on the bananas.

In terms of nutrients that plants receive: 50 lbs of 4-4-7 Organic Fruit Fuel is equal to 12.5 lbs of water-soluble 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel. (Aside: the 4-4-7 has higher proportion of P and K because a portion of these will be bound up in the soil in a granular application.)

So in your situation, a 25-lb bag of 16-8-24 would be sufficient for your entire garden for a year. This ships anywhere in the U.S. by USPS LFRB (large flat rate box) for $15.80.

Worm_Farmer
07-04-2014, 10:09 AM
In terms of nutrients that plants receive: 50 lbs of 4-4-7 Organic Fruit Fuel is equal to 12.5 lbs of water-soluble 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel. (Aside: the 4-4-7 has higher proportion of P and K because a portion of these will be bound up in the soil in a granular application.)

So in your situation, a 25-lb bag of 16-8-24 would be sufficient for your entire garden for a year. This ships anywhere in the U.S. by USPS LFRB (large flat rate box) for $15.80.

I was assuming I would use the granular 2 - 3 times a year. I prefer soil building over liquid. Mostly because Liquid needs to be reapplied every 1 - 2 weeks and I just havent had the time for that. Granular is just a easy way for me to be a little lazy.

Richard
07-04-2014, 01:24 PM
I was assuming I would use the granular 2 - 3 times a year.

That's how most people use the water-soluble.

I prefer soil building over liquid.

Once a garden patch has been inoculated with soil microbes it is good for 7-10 years.

Mostly because Liquid needs to be reapplied every 1 - 2 weeks

That's not true. The dosage is per month, which can be doubled or tripled and applied every 2 or 3 months during the growing season. People who apply more frequently to a large garden do so because they have an injection system.

For injection systems, the EZ-Flo is very expensive and very poorly rated (except by company advertisers). The Dosatron systems are about 2/3 the cost of EZ-Flo, used professionally for decades, and for a large garden will pay for themselves over the cost of organic granular vs. complete water-soluble in 1 to 2 years. For smaller gardens a siphon mixer with a 5 gallon bucket is the way to go.

Worm_Farmer
07-04-2014, 04:28 PM
I have been using a 55 gal Barrel as my mix batch and pumping it throught my sprinklers. I was using it quite often. Now that my sprinklers are not working correctly I was going to do 1 cup per 5 gal bucket per plant or matt.

Once a garden patch has been inoculated with soil microbes it is good for 7-10 years.
Should be, but with City water, plant feeding, leechin gout and if I use other chemical fertlizer I like to always replace. I notice a difference so I do like to go that route still.

I am one of "Those" that are trying to push off "Chemical" based fertlizers.

Richard
07-04-2014, 05:36 PM
... Once a garden patch has been inoculated with soil microbes it is good for 7-10 years. ...

... Should be, but with City water, plant feeding, leechin gout and if I use other chemical fertlizer I like to always replace. I notice a difference so I do like to go that route still.

One of the great things about fertigation is that you can mitigate the city water before it gets to the plants and thus the soil biology thrives.

The main differences between organic and inorganic water-solubles are (1) no nitrate compounds, and (2) no man-made amino acid chelates. Otherwise the organic-rated ionic compounds in an organic fertilizer come straight from a chemical factory.

Worm_Farmer
07-05-2014, 09:51 AM
What if I dont feel like mixing, and just spreat 1 - 2 cups of water solubles around the base and wait for the rain to do its thing?

Richard
07-05-2014, 12:25 PM
What if I dont feel like mixing, and just spreat 1 - 2 cups of water solubles around the base and wait for the rain to do its thing?

For many reasons, it needs to be dissolved in water before contacting a significant quantity of soil.

jeffaroo
07-12-2014, 10:06 AM
the only problem with this injector is its for garden hose applications only. if you are looking for something to cut into your sprinkler system, try this. I have one in my back yard and I LOVE it. the guy makes all different sizes to fit your needs
Drip Irrigation Fertilizer Injector 1½ Quart Capacity ½" FPT Inlet Outlet | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drip-Irrigation-Fertilizer-Injector-1-quart-capacity-FPT-inlet-outlet-/261318443536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd7cb0210)

Richard
07-12-2014, 02:44 PM
the only problem with this injector is its for garden hose applications only. if you are looking for something to cut into your sprinkler system, try this. I have one in my back yard and I LOVE it. the guy makes all different sizes to fit your needs
Drip Irrigation Fertilizer Injector 1½ Quart Capacity ½" FPT Inlet Outlet | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drip-Irrigation-Fertilizer-Injector-1-quart-capacity-FPT-inlet-outlet-/261318443536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd7cb0210)

WARNING: although this product is advertised as "proportioning" it is actually non-proportional. 50% of the contents of the tank will be dispensed in the first 10% of flow -- and the majority of that to your first sprinkler/drip outlet.

harveyc
07-12-2014, 03:39 PM
It is pretty difficult to know how the injector is designed without looking at it and taking it apart. According to the manufacturer, it is proportioning and the 1.5 quart model requires 75 gallons of flow for the fertilizer to be dispersed.

http://fertilizerdispensers.com/services/pdf/Proportioning.pdf
http://fertilizerdispensers.com/services/pdf/ADDIT-brochure_table.pdf

Even if most of the fertilizer solution did get dispersed in the first 10% of the irrigation, the majority of that would not go to the first outlet unless you only had two outlets.

I cannot recommend the product without having more information or personal experience with it.

Richard
07-12-2014, 05:56 PM
It is pretty difficult to know how the injector is designed without looking at it and taking it apart. According to the manufacturer, it is proportioning and the 1.5 quart model requires 75 gallons of flow for the fertilizer to be dispersed.

http://fertilizerdispensers.com/services/pdf/Proportioning.pdf
http://fertilizerdispensers.com/services/pdf/ADDIT-brochure_table.pdf

Even if most of the fertilizer solution did get dispersed in the first 10% of the irrigation, the majority of that would not go to the first outlet unless you only had two outlets.

I cannot recommend the product without having more information or personal experience with it.

In the product description, you can read that The amount of fertilizer or additive concentrate dispensed from the tank will be directly proportional to the volume of water entering the injector, regardless of variations in flow or pressure, which may occur in the main line. The injection rate is preset at a ratio of 200:1 (200 parts water to 1 part additive). This means that contents of the dispenser are continuously diluted. The more flow that passes through the system the weaker the concentration becomes. For the 1.5 quart size container, total replacement occurs at 200 x 1.5 qts = 300 qts = 75 gallons of flow. However, the concentration will drop geometrically and the concentration will be at 50% after the first 10% of flow; i.e., 7.5 gallons. Further, a typical irrigation pipe has a 5 gallon capacity from the valve to the 1st sprinkler head/drip outlet so the majority of the 7.5 gallons will be disbursed to the 1st outlet while the remaining outlets will receive the fresh water that was ahead of it in the pipe. After that, all outlets receive diminishing returns.

For a number of years the EZ-Flo company received criticism for this kind of design and the behavior I describe above was reported by a number of studies by universities and manufacturers alike. Finally, EZ-Flo modified it's design with a feedback loop to offset the geometric progression. It works a little better now. Still, no one in professional agriculture uses them. The choice for small scale systems is Venturi suction (e.g., devices made by Dramm and Grow More) and for larger scale the choice is water pressure driven pump injectors (e.g., Dosatron and Dosmatic).

harveyc
07-12-2014, 11:08 PM
Richard, even if I have 5 gallons of solution in the pipeline to the first outlet, most of that will continue to flow to the following outlets. I understand the principles quite well having used commercial injectors for three orchards of about 8 acres and having successfully completed a course in irrigation engineering.

Richard
07-13-2014, 12:13 AM
Richard, even if I have 5 gallons of solution in the pipeline to the first outlet, most of that will continue to flow to the following outlets.

Exactly my point.

I understand the principles quite well having used commercial injectors for three orchards of about 8 acres and having successfully completed a course in irrigation engineering.

l have also studied irrigation injectors in detail. There is good reason for requiring constant concentration in delivery: one of them being the incompressibility of water. When it comes to outlets, the result is always "first come first served". This is very important to keep in mind when using an injector for chemigation.

harveyc
07-13-2014, 02:39 PM
Exactly my point.



l have also studied irrigation injectors in detail. There is good reason for requiring constant concentration in delivery: one of them being the incompressibility of water. When it comes to outlets, the result is always "first come first served". This is very important to keep in mind when using an injector for chemigation.

Richard, you wrote earlier that over half of the first 10% solution would go to the first outlet in the line. I then indicate most of it would continue to flow past the first outlet. And then you say that is exactly your point. These are not congruent.

There are different scenarios on how such an injector could deliver the fertilizer. If one began injecting into a drip hose (for either drip emitters or micro-sprinklers) that was empty when the water was turned on, much of the first 10% would go to the end of the line as water flowed to fill the drip hose. Such would be the case in my orchards which drain after my 5 HP pump is turned off (I pump about 125 GPM for my orchard). If someone was irrigating a line that was already full and the grower was using outlets that offered little resistance, a higher percentage of the solution would flow out of the first outlet.

I am not recommending the product but your explanation that a majority of the solution coming out of the first outlet simply is not accurate. It could actually work okay, releasing the fertilizer fairly evenly in all of the outlets in the right situations, though I certainly don't advocate such a quick injection of the fertilizer. My typical orchard irrigation is about 15 hours long and I inject fertilizer after the system has been running for a couple of hours (spending much of that time checking for coyote damage, etc.) and then inject my fertilizer solution over an hour or two. I use Mazzei verturi-style injectors which are the dominant product used in orchards in California.

Richard
07-14-2014, 06:11 PM
Harvey, there are two basic scenarios: one with the downstream irrigation pipe nearly empty initially (downhill pipe) and the other with the same nearly full of water (an uphill pipe prior to fertigation). Fertilizer delivery is measured by non-interfering collectors (no back pressure) at each emitter. For the non-proportioinal systems: if the downstream pipe is nearly empty then by far the greatest concentration exits the terminal emitter, and for the opposite scenario the majority exits the 1st emitter. This effect is due to the rapid dilution of the tank. I have seen the test in the lab: you are welcome to experiment yourself.

Here in San Diego county there are plenty of landscape contractors that install EZ-Flo and other non-proportional fertigation products. A few years later the homeowner starts having serious problems and myself or one of the consulting firms (e.g., CPS) swaps their tank out for either a Dosatron or Dramm injector which for the same size system is 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the original non-proportional.
:lurk:

jeffaroo
07-14-2014, 07:49 PM
I dont know what model your refering to, but the Dosatron that I found on ebay was $300. Im redoing my backyard and I want a cheap system to shoot into the lines. Hell.....maybe ill go old school and run a Mazzei with a bunch of ball valves manifolded

John1258
07-14-2014, 07:51 PM
:2738:After 2 years of discussions, trial formulations, and testing I have ... one pound of 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel! The remainder (several tons) will hopefully arrive by Christmas and I'll offer it for sale in 5 & 25 pound bags.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55115&size=1
Hi...I am just getting back into Bananas But I was always told to use 20-20-20 and my tree wintered over in western Ky....
:03:

jeffaroo
07-14-2014, 08:32 PM
Tripple 20 is a generic all purpose fertilizer. The idea behind "Fruit Fuel" is A two-one-three part fertilizer to promote good growth and plant health without forcing a bloom. (Middle number is for bloom) I havnt tried it yet but all the reads sound fantastic. I ordered some and it came today:woohoonaner:

jeffaroo
07-14-2014, 11:16 PM
Ok so I cracked open my order of Fruit Fuel today and mixed op my first batch.. from my experience with other Growmore products, it usually pours out like salt. My order of Fruit Fuel however has the consistency of brown sugar. Is this normal ? Mixed my batch 3 tbps to a 3 1/2 gal bucket

Worm_Farmer
07-17-2014, 08:24 PM
My typical orchard irrigation is about 15 hours long and I inject fertilizer after the system has been running for a couple of hours (spending much of that time checking for coyote damage, etc.) and then inject my fertilizer solution over an hour or two. I use Mazzei verturi-style injectors which are the dominant product used in orchards in California.

15 hours @ 125 gph? How does this not completly flood your field? I would think this would leave standing water everywhere. Do you water every other day? Just seems like A mini flood for someone like me.

Richard
07-17-2014, 09:04 PM
Ok so I cracked open my order of Fruit Fuel today and mixed op my first batch.. from my experience with other Growmore products, it usually pours out like salt. My order of Fruit Fuel however has the consistency of brown sugar. Is this normal ? Mixed my batch 3 tbps to a 3 1/2 gal bucket

For this formula, yes. Some of the minerals in the formula give it a hydroscopic nature. Also, there is no blue vegetable dye so main colors present are gray (from potash salts) and brown (from iron chelate). In next year's batch we are going to try adding a natural decoagulant so the product does not harden as much in storage.

jeffaroo
07-17-2014, 11:05 PM
I dont know what model your refering to, but the Dosatron that I found on ebay was $300. Im redoing my backyard and I want a cheap system to shoot into the lines. Hell.....maybe ill go old school and run a Mazzei with a bunch of ball valves manifolded

Might go get a tds meter and play with some ideas before making a purchase
only problem is I have high & low volume lines. But thats nothing a few jumper lines won't fix

Richard
07-17-2014, 11:22 PM
Might go get a tds meter and play with some ideas before making a purchase
only problem is I have high & low volume lines. But thats nothing a few jumper lines won't fix

It is a good idea to take measurements. The venturi devices require flow. If your water pressure is low (below 50psi) then I'd recommend an inline electric pump to maintain velocity. Harvey makes a good point about the Mazzei injectors -- who also manufacture venturi injectors for other brand names ;) If you are considering the pressure-fed pumps, then visit the Dosatron and Dosmatic websites directly. In particular you'll see that Dosatron has systems for just about every pressure/flow situation. While you're doing that, get a list of recommended distributors for your area or online. That way you'll be sure to get all the parts.
:lurk:

jeffaroo
07-24-2014, 12:20 AM
Ok so I've been a Fruit Fuel user for a week now, one thing I noticed right away. Fruit Fuel gives the strength to crack the p-stem for the plant to gain girth and take off. I've tried several fertilizer programs and never had these results so fast. Im sold on Richards program so far !!! Bravo sir, 5 stars !!!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56483&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56483&ppuser=18939)

harveyc
07-24-2014, 09:13 AM
15 hours @ 125 gph? How does this not completly flood your field? I would think this would leave standing water everywhere. Do you water every other day? Just seems like A mini flood for someone like me.

No, there is never any standing water. This applies approximately 4" of water over roughly the same diameter as my trees which moistens soil to a depth of 12-15". I have moisture sensors at depths of 15" and 30" in two locations of my orchard and monitor moisture conditions and they never become saturated. If I run into hot spells and don't put on sufficient water the 30" starts getting depleted and I can never restore that moisture until winter (unless I decided to flood my orchard which I am unwilling to do). I could irrigate more frequently for shorter durations but the moisture at the 15" depth would then also get depleted. Irrigating 4" about once per week has worked out best for me.

Richard
07-24-2014, 10:05 PM
... Irrigating 4" about once per week has worked out best for me.

4" deep in a basin out to the drip line of the tree canopy once per week in the summer is also the rule of thumb I learned from my father in Redlands. :)

jeffaroo
07-27-2014, 11:44 AM
Is this the typical sign of a little to much juice at feeding time ?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56484&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56484&ppuser=18939)

Richard
07-27-2014, 04:11 PM
I've never seen that condition. How much did you use per gallon, and how frequent?

Is this the typical sign of a little to much juice at feeding time ?

cincinnana
07-27-2014, 05:22 PM
Is this the typical sign of a little to much juice at feeding time ?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=56484&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=56484&ppuser=18939)

Ouch!

jeffaroo
07-27-2014, 08:11 PM
2 tbsp. to a 3 gal bucket. I just did one dosing about 2 weeks ago. However this last week has been 100 degrees. I have a dozen bananas and this is the only one with the crispy edges. I wonder if I should cut the dosage to 50% on the container planted ones

Abnshrek
07-27-2014, 09:26 PM
Its not the fert @ that dose rate.. I can tell you that.. :^)

Richard
07-27-2014, 09:54 PM
Some possibilities:
1. under-watered
2. over-heated pot
3. getting a lot of reflected heat on the leaves

The place to check the dampness of the soil is through the holes at the bottom of the pot. Use a chopstick or similar and insert through a hole along the bottom of the pot. If it comes out dripping wet, then they do not need water. If it comes out less than damp, it is time to water.

Also, in hot sun plants can "cook" in a pot; i.e., the pot heats up and the soil temperature becomes less than tolerable for the plant. Some people put aluminum foil on the outside of the pot to reflect away heat. But this won't help much if the pot is sitting on a surface that heats up and stays that way during the day. Further, if the air temperature is over 100 for several hours, the pot will heat up anyway, just a bit slower.

Nearby walls and large surfaces made of stucco, brick, cement, stone, gravel, etc. will reflect light from the sun. This can cause damage to the leaves of some plants, including bananas.
:lurk:

skiarun
08-10-2014, 05:10 PM
Hey Richard, you seem to have a fan club. Today is the first time I've looked you up here at Banana.org. I'm down south in San Diego.

How to you keep your banana plants watered well in California without wasted water....and, how do you keep the roots from rotting?
I do great with my potted banana plants but my in ground banana plants are not doing well.

Any ideas?

skiarun
08-10-2014, 05:19 PM
Thanks for your help to all of us with our own naners.

I'm so new at this.....really just swinging in the dark at this stage.
I value your input.

Do you go to any of the Rare Fruit Grower clubs? CRFG?

Richard
08-10-2014, 07:29 PM
I attend many of the North County CRFG meetings.

Here's a guide to growing bananas in San Diego and similar climates:
Guide To Growing Fruiting Bananas In Temperate Climates (http://growingfruit-images.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/d/ed06524584a2fa19133ea8396b49af11a1825ad1.pdf)


Thanks for your help to all of us with our own naners.

I'm so new at this.....really just swinging in the dark at this stage.
I value your input.

Do you go to any of the Rare Fruit Grower clubs? CRFG?

jeffaroo
08-15-2014, 12:40 AM
Ive been using Fruit Fuel for 2 months now with great results. I do 3 tbsp to a 3 1/2 gallon bucket once a month. Ive been wondering if I could do the same formula, but every 2 weeks. It seems safer than making a hotter dose. Whats your thoughts?