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View Full Version : Indoor lighting: iPower or Apollo??


Viper1436
09-27-2013, 07:08 AM
Which light system is better in your opinion? I'm leaning more towards Apollo - Amazon.com: Apollo Horticulture GLK1000UM42 1000 Watt Grow Light Digital Dimmable HPS MH System for Plants Vertical Umbrella Hood Set: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK1000UM42-Dimmable-Vertical/dp/B00547Q3QO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3FGEM7P0AT3UF&coliid=I13XACOSCZWQ2W)

jbyrd88888
09-27-2013, 09:22 PM
New Apollo 400W 600W 1000W Watt HPS MH Digital Ballast Grow Light Dimmable Bulbs | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Apollo-400w-600w-1000w-Watt-HPS-MH-Digital-Ballast-Grow-Light-Dimmable-Bulbs-/120957197700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=420086395669&hash=item1c299c5d84)
YEAH man you found a good one. . . EBAY is the only way to go you got know by now?

Viper1436
09-27-2013, 09:23 PM
Amazon

Richard
09-27-2013, 09:31 PM
Neither.

jbyrd88888
09-27-2013, 09:32 PM
Apollo Horticulture 1000W Watt Magnetic Grow Light Hydroponic MH HPS Ballast | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apollo-Horticulture-1000w-Watt-Magnetic-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-MH-HPS-Ballast-/190817849934?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item2c6da1524e)
I got one of these. . . I considered a dimming one but WHY??? really you would only want to control your light cycles by changing your timer settings. . . It might come in handy for something I can't think of? "EDIT2: extending the life of the bulb?"
"EDIT1: EBAY works VERY well with paypal at resolving issues from allll my past experiences my Refunds have always worked well in my favor."

jbyrd88888
09-28-2013, 05:54 AM
Amazon

I will say I use my Amazon account for the promotional and discounted prices/discount codes they throw at me in ad emails, that are impossible to find anywhere else (last resort). . . nowhere around here does anyone sell 1-1/4" Clear Polyvinylchloride Heat Shrink Tubing. . . I would never pay for the Amazon Prime membership though. . . would you?
Paypal has been good to me.

Viper1436
09-28-2013, 06:06 AM
Ive had amazon prime for the past 2 years let me tell you, its the most amazing thing ever to get free 2 day shipping on everything and 3.99 for expedited 1 day shipping, you have no idea how convenient it is, not to mention EVERYTHING on amazon is a lot cheaper than eBay. I used to be an eBay fanatic but since I discovered amazon a couple years ago, I rarely use ebay, and im poor now.

Viper1436
09-28-2013, 06:09 AM
Neither.

Do you know of a better grow light richard?

Viper1436
09-28-2013, 06:13 AM
I will say I use my Amazon account for the promotional and discounted prices/discount codes they throw at me in ad emails, that are impossible to find anywhere else (last resort). . . nowhere around here does anyone sell 1-1/4" Clear Polyvinylchloride Heat Shrink Tubing. . . I would never pay for the Amazon Prime membership though. . . would you?
Paypal has been good to me.



amazon prime doesn't make sense unless you buy stuff all the time which I do. I buy everything on amazon, saves me so many trips to the store and its way cheaper than buying in the stores.

Snookie
09-28-2013, 08:26 AM
amazon prime doesn't make sense unless you buy stuff all the time which I do. I buy everything on amazon, saves me so many trips to the store and its way cheaper than buying in the stores.

10-69 on Amazon I like DAT me!

G.W.
09-28-2013, 08:49 AM
no need for a dimmable ballast
no need for a digital ballast
no need for a ballast that will run MH

600w hps conventional ballast about $120
2x Mogul base about $10
3x 600w hps bulbs about $35
30A DPDT relay with 120v coil about $25
Some 14ga romex dirt cheap or use 12ga ext cords
Generic 2 prong timer $5
Homemade batwing reflectors FREE from paint cans or wire frame and aluminum foil
The whole deal will be less than $200 and the relay allows 2 bulbs in seperate locations to run 12/12 from a single ballast.

Hey at least you weren't asking about LEDs......

jbyrd88888
09-28-2013, 09:04 AM
no need for a dimmable ballast
no need for a digital ballast
no need for a ballast that will run MH

600w hps conventional ballast about $120
2x Mogul base about $10
3x 600w hps bulbs about $35
30A DPDT relay with 120v coil about $25
Some 14ga romex dirt cheap or use 12ga ext cords
Generic 2 prong timer $5
Homemade batwing reflectors FREE from paint cans or wire frame and aluminum foil
The whole deal will be less than $200 and the relay allows 2 bulbs in seperate locations to run 12/12 from a single ballast.

Hey at least you weren't asking about LEDs......
Can I get an AMEN up in here? ! ! !

Viper1436
09-28-2013, 09:06 AM
why not mh?

jbyrd88888
09-28-2013, 09:10 AM
G.W. = Ganja Washington right?
EDIT: I do like my MH switches though

G.W.
09-28-2013, 10:13 AM
So now I actually went and looked and am surprised digital ballasts have come down so much


Apollo Horticulture GLK600GW19 600 Watt Grow Light Digital Dimmable HPS MH System for Plants Gull Wing Hood Set:Amazon:Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004L3AQ1U/ref=pd_aw_sims_2?pi=SS115)
I MIGHT maybe order this if it got good long term reviews from some growers.

Other than that I'd stay away from digital simply becUse conventional always have such a good track record.
Let's be clear that conventional ballasts are nearly bulletproof and provide excellent service life in extreme conditions EVERY SINGLE DAY and some run 24/7/365.
Digital ballasts are so much fad and reinventing the wheel.

Also, peeps were having trouble running digital with relays.
Better coverage could be had with flouros of the t8 36w variety in a 4 bulbs parallel config.
Forget the t5 hype.
For $200 you could get 4 x t8 4 bulb fixtures and cover lots of floor, though a relay will allowthe same with the hps.

:lurk:

G.W.
09-28-2013, 10:32 AM
why not mh?


Lower efficiency.
600w hps is the king of efficiency , save the lps which only emits a very narrow range and is beyond the scope of this convo.

http://davidgulyas.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f124f6a8834017615146324970c-pi
Here is a dummy chart
You can look up HID lumens per watt and get a better set of numbers as there is a range for each chemistry.
Ie. not all hps wattages are as efficient as the 600.
150 w hps is only slightly better than T8 36w flouros, and then service lumens and bulb life come into play.
But I digress.

If you want a switchable ballast then buy hps and put a switch on the ignitor.
+ igniter = hps. - ignitor = mh
A dual pole 20A 120vac switch will work fine, just dont leave it swaying in the breeze, boxes are cheap.

These switchable ballasts are for pot growers who would like increased blue spectrum during vegatative growth phase and increased red during flower phase.

GW = Gratewhitehuntr, a nik coined while I was in highschool. (Long before the OTHER GW applied a liberal coating of TAINT to my beloved nik)

AMEN !!!!!!!

jbyrd88888
09-28-2013, 07:45 PM
I have been released free of sin. . . now ima haul as$ outta here with everyone else that is afraid to post their experience ;) :07::scroll::doggyandnaner::2623::2750::nanerwaveytrain:
Hmmm hydroponic-bananas indoors would be cool ? I wonder . . .

G.W.
09-29-2013, 08:55 AM
I just grew a hydro namwah in 25gal coco coir, pine bark and gravel.
nutes were milorganite, aged urine and sulfate of potash

It flowered in 120% of the rate of identical plants in ground next to it. roughly 3 months later.

Unfortunately a microburst of freak winds toppled it and being 12ft pstem and with fruit it was broken in half.

I could not grow that indoors.

Over the winter I produced considerable content related to indoor growing but alas it was lost in a hard drive failure.

Edit
it would be more accurate to call that banana SOILLESS instead of hydro and I'll add that it was also on my fertigation system receiving urea, MOP, and some AMS on the same schedule as plants in ground.

Richard
09-29-2013, 01:43 PM
For fruiting plants grown in soil-less media - esp. indoors, I would recommend NPK ratios of 4:4:7, or more precisely 11:12:21. So for example, an urea-free fertilizer with NPK values of 8-8-14 would be appropriate.

Viper1436
09-29-2013, 03:33 PM
but MH color temperature (5600 aprox) is a lot closer to the color temp of natural sunlight, hps color temp is like 2000 "aprox" why does it make sense to use hps all the time then?

G.W.
09-29-2013, 05:37 PM
To anyone reading this please forgive my disjointed and inarticulate and junk sciency post which I'm currently editing so as to not sound completely ignorant.
This post will be chock full in a few minutes or.maybe I can delete the whole Damn thing and copypaste to a draft.....
In other words, I know what I know but this does not help you unless I back it up with science.
My short answer is increased red light.

Now about color temps.
On its face this seems like an obvious thing.
I was just looking at Richard's recommendations elsewhere that 6500k is preferable for most (sorry to paraphrase you Richard) plant growth.

One thing to understand here is that there are different ways of defining the conversion of electricity into light.
Namely that a bulb can produce most of its energy in the spectrum visible to the human eye, or in he case of incan lighting mostly outside the visible spectrum, infrared specifically.
Luminous flux (visible) and radiant flux (absolute)

plants aren't people and have their own photosynthetic response range completely independent of how much the light stimulates our eyes.
This makes the standard means of defining light output considerably less usefull and this decoupling from human perception complicates understanding how efficient a light is for plant growth.

A prime example is green light.
The human eye is extremely sensitive to green light and so green light sources with lux numbers that would be laughable for a white light source are intense or blinding.
Since plants reflect green light I'm sure you can guess how well they utilize pure green.

I'll be back later with some actual science and maybe in the meantime someone else like Richard (who is probably more educated than I'll ever be) can fill in the blanks or reeducate me if I'm talking smack.

Here are.some links
Photosynthetically active radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)
Photosynthesis, Maximized. (http://www.maximumyield.com/asktheexperts/item/38-photosynthesis-maximized)

Dang....this post is gonna stay messy and I'll make the next one hawt.

Richard
09-29-2013, 08:05 PM
I was just looking at Richard's recommendations elsewhere that 6500k is preferable for most (sorry to paraphrase you Richard) plant growth.


I have recommended 6500k for certain crops. Definitely not all - nor even most plants. :)

G.W.
09-30-2013, 06:17 AM
I have recommended 6500k for certain crops. Definitely not all - nor even most plants. :)

Thanks for correcting me and sorry to put words in your mouth.

Now since my self education has neglected the area of the banana's specific photosynthetic response range......
Maybe after work today I'll find some time to fill in the blanks for everyone right after I fill them in for myself.

Viper1436
09-30-2013, 06:22 AM
I bought the 1000w apollo grow light, we shall see how it goes.

Richard
09-30-2013, 05:45 PM
Here's a picture of the Apollo 1000w MH spectral density. For plants, you can see that it is an improvement over HPS but on the either hand, the bulb is clearly designed for human vision. About 1/3 of your electric bill will go to energy the plant simply doesn't use. On the plus side, you'll be able to see them just fine!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=54741 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=54563)

redswe
10-02-2013, 06:03 AM
A chart that may help explain what Richard is saying...


http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=54758

This also shows why using lumens is not always the best choice to determine lamp selection. A bulb represented by the top chart would probably have a higher lumen output than the bottom chart.
(http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=54757&ppuser=7077)Here's a picture of the Apollo 1000w MH spectral density. For plants, you can see that it is an improvement over HPS but on the either hand, the bulb is clearly designed for human vision. About 1/3 of your electric bill will go to energy the plant simply doesn't use. On the plus side, you'll be able to see them just fine!

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=54741 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=54563)

Howard007
10-04-2013, 01:19 PM
Metal halide bulbs were the gold standard and virtually the only choice for keeping high PAR requiring hard corals alive in reef tanks for many years. They are still popular and widely used because they have the ability to punch through deeper water tanks (over 30" deep) more effectively than T5's and LED's PAR tests have shown. The thing I don't like about MH lighting is that being a point source light it was shown that it gives off very high PAR output focused within a small area and then drops off significantly as you fan out, whereas T5 HO and various LED clusters didn't have the same punch at depth however were far more uniform in giving similar PAR values over a large underwater landscape.

Because of this, it seems like MH would not be the ideal cost effective setup for use as plant lighting in a small scale residential setting as opposed to using rows of T5 HO bulbs with correct individual reflectors or some of the newer generation LED panels.

Anyone??

Richard
10-04-2013, 01:43 PM
... Because of this, it seems like MH would not be the ideal cost effective setup for use as plant lighting in a small scale residential setting as opposed to using rows of T5 HO bulbs with correct individual reflectors or some of the newer generation LED panels.

Anyone??

I can understand the use of purpose-built LED systems for tropical plants from the forest floor or for factory production of leafy greens. For fruit or bud production, it is not possible to obtain the necessary energy density with LEDs. The T5 HO 6500k are the bulb of choice for this task in commercial agriculture.