View Full Version : Azomite and Sul-Po-Mag Application Rates?
andy17
09-19-2013, 12:31 PM
Hello everyone,
I would like to supplement my current fertilizer regimen of Miracle Gro 24-8-16 once every two weeks @ full strength and Hi Yield Growers special once a month 12-6-6 with Azomite and Sul-Po-Mag, but I'm not sure what the application rates are for containerized plants. Does anyone have any experience using these supplements? Also, is this a good regimen for banana plants? Thanks!
Richard
09-19-2013, 02:46 PM
Hello everyone,
I would like to supplement my current fertilizer regimen of Miracle Gro 24-8-16 once every two weeks @ full strength and Hi Yield Growers special once a month 12-6-6 with Azomite and Sul-Po-Mag, but I'm not sure what the application rates are for containerized plants. Does anyone have any experience using these supplements? Also, is this a good regimen for banana plants? Thanks!
For ornamental banana plants, the 24-8-16 is an excellent feeding program, no nutrient additives are needed. Since you are growing in pots, make sure to follow the dosage for container plants.
For fruiting banana plants, also use 2/3 LEVEL tablespoon (or cup) for each 1 LEVEL tablespoon (or cup) of 24-8-16.
Adding the other products you mentioned will produce an NPK imbalance for these plants. If you want to supplement with a humic acid or hormone that would be ok, but take it easy -- you'll bust out of your containers.
caliboy1994
09-19-2013, 04:05 PM
How about for in-ground fruiting plants? Should I apply Azomite yearly or monthly? I applied around a pound or two of it on each of my plants so far this year, in one sitting. And for the Sul-Po-Mag, since it's high in S and Mg, is it best to not use it too often as to create a micronutrient imbalance in the plants?
andy17
09-19-2013, 04:28 PM
For ornamental banana plants, the 24-8-16 is an excellent feeding program, no nutrient additives are needed. Since you are growing in pots, make sure to follow the dosage for container plants.
For fruiting banana plants, also use 2/3 LEVEL tablespoon (or cup) for each 1 LEVEL tablespoon (or cup) of 24-8-16.
Adding the other products you mentioned will produce an NPK imbalance for these plants. If you want to supplement with a humic acid or hormone that would be ok, but take it easy -- you'll bust out of your containers.
Thanks Richard, this is really helpful. Since the Miracle Grow is water soluble, I generally put 1 heaping tablespoon in about 2 gallons of water, which is pretty close to the insert recommendation. The slow release is also around 2 tablespoons. So would I add two 2/3 tablespoons of the Azomite and Sul-Po-Mag each time I fertilize biweekly or weekly? Thanks!
Richard
09-19-2013, 06:16 PM
How about for in-ground fruiting plants? Should I apply Azomite yearly or monthly? I applied around a pound or two of it on each of my plants so far this year, in one sitting. And for the Sul-Po-Mag, since it's high in S and Mg, is it best to not use it too often as to create a micronutrient imbalance in the plants?
If I had some Azomite, I'd give it to a neighbor to put on their lawn.
Consider Sul-Po-Mag as a Potash supplement. It's a cheap way to get more potash for fruiting bananas on top of an ornamental banana formula.
Richard
09-19-2013, 06:24 PM
Thanks Richard, this is really helpful. Since the Miracle Grow is water soluble, I generally put 1 heaping tablespoon in about 2 gallons of water, which is pretty close to the insert recommendation. The slow release is also around 2 tablespoons. So would I add two 2/3 tablespoons of the Azomite and Sul-Po-Mag each time I fertilize biweekly or weekly? Thanks!
For your ornamental banana plants, just use the 24-8-16.
For your fruiting banana plants, use the recommended dosage of 24-8-16, plus 2/3 of that quantity of Sul-Po-Mag.
Do not use the Azomite. It throws off the desired NPK ratios - regardless of when you apply it.
If you want to apply a humic or hormone supplement that has negligible NPK content, that would be ok.
Figaro
09-23-2013, 05:04 PM
For your ornamental banana plants, just use the 24-8-16.
For your fruiting banana plants, use the recommended dosage of 24-8-16, plus 2/3 of that quantity of Sul-Po-Mag.
Do not use the Azomite. It throws off the desired NPK ratios - regardless of when you apply it.
If you want to apply a humic or hormone supplement that has negligible NPK content, that would be ok.
I'd like to understand this more. I am a big fan of using rock dust on all my plants. I do not work for any company that sells it, I'm simply a guy that grows a lot of different fruits and vegetables.
I'm also not a botanist or horticultural expert, so the following is not intended to be argumentative but is only my "understanding" and I'm anxious to learn if and how I'm incorrect.
IMHO, the NPK ratios are not that important and the ideal NPK ratio can vary from plant to plant.
A plant is only going to ingest the nutrients it wants/needs. Having more of that nutrient shouldn't hurt as long as it's not in a high enough concentration to cause toxicity. And, having more of that nutrient will not make the plant ingest more of it than it needs.
In fact, I look at my role as making sure that whatever my plants want are available in the mix, in tolerable amounts.
While Azomite does include additional N, P & K, and most likely in amounts that change the nutrient's NPK ratio, it certainly doesn't add them at toxic levels and just by adding more Phosphorous (for example) doesn't mean the plant will ingest more Phosphorous.
More importantly, the Azomite adds valuable trace minerals back to the soil that do get used by the plants and are not necessarily included in most fertilizers.
While it doesn't take much more than N,P & K to grow a plant, I BELIEVE that to have the healthiest plants that produce the best tasting and most vitamin-rich fruits and vegetables, you want as many of the trace minerals available as possible, too (in non-toxic levels, of course!).
So, where am I going wrong in my understanding/interpretation? If the NPK is all available at levels where the plant gets all it craves, why is the NPK ratio so "sacred".
Again, this is not intended to be argumentative and any/all input is greatly appreciated, especially if I learn something new! :)
Richard
09-23-2013, 08:22 PM
Here's what I posted in the Azomite thread:
Azomite and "rock dust" products (e.g., green sand) have two important things in common:
Nearly all the minerals listed on the package are in a form unavailable to plants; i.e., covalent compounds.
The sources are residuals from rock quarries who would otherwise have to pay to dump this largely unusable by-product somewhere else.
Having said this, I should also point out that either of these are useful as a ONE TIME additive to a soil mix. Soil mixes are typically void of covalent rock subgravels and dusts. When present, they become important catalytic sites for ionic exchange. Again, the plants do not uptake the covalent rock material and so it never leaves the soil mix. There is no benefit but possible negatives to adding it more than once.
While talking about plant products that advertise unusable minerals, I would like to mention that the same is true of the plant hormone products Superthrive, Liquid Seaweed Extract, and Kelp solids. It is the hormones in these products that cause the benefit you see, and not the long list of rock minerals.
andy17
09-23-2013, 10:05 PM
This is a great discussion; thanks everyone for the replies! So regular application of Miracle grow 24-8-16 and Sul-Po-Mag should be sufficient for healthy potted fruiting bananas? Does anyone supplement calcium or boron?
Figaro
09-24-2013, 08:20 AM
Here's what I posted in the Azomite thread:
Richard, thanks for your reply! There are still two things I'm not clear on.
First is the original question of why, if all the elements the plant wants are available, does the NPK ratio need to be so "exact"?
Next, in organics, most nutrients are in forms not available to the plants UNTIL they are broken down by microbes in the soil. This is why people use compost teas. The teas themselves don't add much for nutrients, but they greatly increase microbial activity making it easier for the plants to ingest the nutrients that are there.
It is true that hydroponic fertilizers, for example, will deliver the nutrients in a form that is immediately available to the plants, but that's because hydroponics can't rely on the microbial activity present in soil to break them down.
There are also some "advanced" ways of delivering the nutrients using chelates, for example, that I realize are not a characteristic of Rock Dust.
But, are you saying that the microbes in the soil are unable to make the elements in the "covalent compounds" in Azomite available to the plants?
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