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View Full Version : Anyone use heating cables?


LilRaverBoi
01-13-2013, 03:44 PM
So I had a crazy idea come to me today. What if you could bury something in the soil around your plants to heat the soil during the winter to keep the roots warm so that conventional winter protection would be minimized or unnecessary. I had several ideas as to the logistics of it from circulating warm water or air to some sort of heating elements like radiant heating used in homes.

So I did some search engine research and found this product:
Charley's Greenhouse & Garden Value Heating Cables 12 ft P5010 12 (http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?page=_productdetails&productid=8002&learnmore=1)
Has anyone used anything like this before? It seems pretty legitimate. Obviously, it would be a pain to do any digging in beds with this buried in them, but I could see it possibly working out well in some applications. Also, it wouldn't help protect any pseudostem unless used in combination with some sort of other covering/shelter (which this would be an excellent addition to, IMO), but it would keep the corm from freezing to ensure the plants would come back nicely in the spring each year with minimal 'overwintering' effort.

Ideas? Discussion?

Oh...and though it may seem a bit expensive for 12 feet, it seems that the majority of that price is for the thermostat and plug because every additional 12 feet added only adds $5 to the price....so if you buy the longer cables, you really do get a pretty good value.

CTPalm
01-13-2013, 05:24 PM
So I had a crazy idea come to me today. What if you could bury something in the soil around your plants to heat the soil during the winter to keep the roots warm so that conventional winter protection would be minimized or unnecessary. I had several ideas as to the logistics of it from circulating warm water or air to some sort of heating elements like radiant heating used in homes.

So I did some search engine research and found this product:
Charley's Greenhouse & Garden Value Heating Cables 12 ft P5010 12 (http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?page=_productdetails&productid=8002&learnmore=1)
Has anyone used anything like this before? It seems pretty legitimate. Obviously, it would be a pain to do any digging in beds with this buried in them, but I could see it possibly working out well in some applications. Also, it wouldn't help protect any pseudostem unless used in combination with some sort of other covering/shelter (which this would be an excellent addition to, IMO), but it would keep the corm from freezing to ensure the plants would come back nicely in the spring each year with minimal 'overwintering' effort.

Ideas? Discussion?

Oh...and though it may seem a bit expensive for 12 feet, it seems that the majority of that price is for the thermostat and plug because every additional 12 feet added only adds $5 to the price....so if you buy the longer cables, you really do get a pretty good value.

I think lots of people are doing it - you should check out Palms North Forum

Paul

shular1
01-13-2013, 06:01 PM
Just get Musa Basjoo and forget it. They will come back every year with lots of pups.

2woodensticks
01-13-2013, 07:58 PM
where is one member that uses heating tape..but i think they wrap around instead of underground

sunfish
01-13-2013, 08:12 PM
where is one member that uses heating tape..but i think they wrap around instead of underground

http://www.bananas.org/f15/ice-cream-zone-8-planting-16479.html#post202796

stevelau1911
01-13-2013, 09:48 PM
I've tried them when the soil temperature was in the 45-50F range, and withing the same area of those heating cables, lets say 2-5 inches away, the soil only heats up by around 2 degrees.

I think mine is a 24watt heating cable so it is fairly weak, but even if you have a 400watt heating cable, it won't really make a huge difference, and it will cost you a lot of electricity in the process. Something more economical such as mounding compost, or a tarp cover may be a better investment.

dekkard
01-14-2013, 12:28 PM
Thanks for posting as I had not seen this yet. I am interested in them for my other tropicals. As for bananas, I think these cables would be less useful b/c the corm can survive in most zones with good ground cover prep. It is the stem one wishes to protect if fruit is desired. I think in more northern zones, the heat tape could be a better choice. Price looks about the same.

I am in Z9b. I tent my tropicals (Z10-12) with heavy plastic and heat the inside with light bulbs. No problems so far with the few cold nights per year which would otherwise kill them.

CTPalm
01-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Just get Musa Basjoo and forget it. They will come back every year with lots of pups.

I'm looking for some real Musa Bajoo's - every year I try and have been sent the wrong thing from various online retailers. Willis Orchard and Florida Hill.

designshark
01-14-2013, 09:00 PM
I'm looking for some real Musa Bajoo's - every year I try and have been sent the wrong thing from various online retailers. Willis Orchard and Florida Hill.

What's the matter with them? Mine don't get very tall and I water and fertilize the heck out of them. I've built a contraption this year hoping to save some stem for a taller plant. Hopefully next summer I'll have more pups than the local pound. There were a lot of spears poppin' through when I winterized.

Abnshrek
01-14-2013, 09:40 PM
where is one member that uses heating tape..but i think they wrap around instead of underground

I use heat-tapes, but I think heavy duty christmas lights do a good job. This heating cable keeps the soil @ 70F where as heat-tapes keep the plant or pipe between 38-45F.. :^)

LilRaverBoi
01-15-2013, 01:58 AM
I think these cables would be less useful b/c the corm can survive in most zones with good ground cover prep.
I live in zone 5 and though I haven't experimented with in-ground overwintering, I doubt any variety other than basjoo will survive winters here even with lots of ground cover. It's not unusual to see temps of -10F during winter (coldest I've seen was -37F) and sustained below zero temps for a month or more. I would suspect with ground cover AND heating cables, there might be a chance for quite a few varieties, but ground cover alone just won't do it.

Syano10
01-15-2013, 10:15 AM
ct palm i am in Wethersfield and have gotten mine from Stonehedge Landscaping and Garden Center (http://www.stonehedgelandscapingco.com/)

picked it up last spring and it was huge by september/october.

designshark
01-15-2013, 02:03 PM
I live in zone 5 and though I haven't experimented with in-ground overwintering, I doubt any variety other than basjoo will survive winters here even with lots of ground cover. It's not unusual to see temps of -10F during winter (coldest I've seen was -37F) and sustained below zero temps for a month or more. I would suspect with ground cover AND heating cables, there might be a chance for quite a few varieties, but ground cover alone just won't do it.

It's a tough call! You could use heat cables and possibly some sort of a floor heater kit and a air-tight structure but the drawback would be able to separate pups.

Abnshrek
01-15-2013, 06:36 PM
I can see using this product and not putting in the soil but covering it with mulch so it can be effective & easily removed come spring.. :^)

designshark
01-15-2013, 07:08 PM
That's an idea too. but would it warm enough of the ground under and around to make a noticeable difference when the temps dip to 0 for a while. We've been below freezing here since Sunday night and the ground is starting to freeze again. Dark mulch with some insulation I think are best. Let the sun heat it up and hope the insulation material keeps it warm all night.

Abnshrek
01-15-2013, 08:52 PM
That's an idea too. but would it warm enough of the ground under and around to make a noticeable difference when the temps dip to 0 for a while. We've been below freezing here since Sunday night and the ground is starting to freeze again. Dark mulch with some insulation I think are best. Let the sun heat it up and hope the insulation material keeps it warm all night.

as warm as the heat tape gets I think it would do the job to keep a corm from freezing. The 70F on the heat cable is more like where you would want something to grow like starter plants. I had a heat tape half installed thawing out a friends frozen water pipe and it was working half way thru the install.. It was a good hand warmer as well. :^)

GreenFin
01-16-2013, 06:50 PM
you should check out Palms North Forum

That looks like a great forum, thanks for noting it.

George Webster
02-15-2013, 08:50 PM
Last year I wrapped an orinoco with christmas lights that were controlled with a Thermocube. Caged with chicken wire filled with chopped Oak leaves. When I unwrapped the pstem it looked just like when I wrapped it. However it never grew. It was still green when the corm rotted.

I have one fixed the same way this year. There is a foot of chopped Oak leaf mulch around the base.

I been thinking if it rotted again this year; I might try putting heat tape under the corm, but not turning it on till it was time to start growing in the spring.

It might not work, but I think it might be worth a try.

George.

LilRaverBoi
02-16-2013, 12:25 PM
Have you considered dormant overwintering? That's probably a better bet in STL. I've heard orinoco does well with this...and it's probably a lot less effort than what you've been doing in the past.

George Webster
02-16-2013, 06:26 PM
We are relative we are a couple of years into bananas and still learning. I made a lot of mistakes last year. I did manage to save a couple of small pups brought in last year.

This year we managed to get in a corm with two large pstems and three smaller pups into the house. We have decided this is not appropriate activity for octogerians. Maybe we can get our grandchildren help us to get them back outside.

I am hoping to get something much smaller that will winter dormant and produce edible fruit.

George

has a dream
02-19-2013, 09:56 PM
Howdy st. Louisan. I've herd great things about older Christmas lights that get hot

Lord Snooty
02-21-2013, 04:42 PM
I've thought about this in the past and as I only have a small outside area, the initial capital outlay wouldn't be too great in my case. As well as the cables and thermostat you'd need a suitable weatherproof outdoor electricity supply and a built in or separate R.C.D. (residual current device) or similar to protect against over heating and short circuits. I decided against it after looking into it further, for the following reasons.

Soil heating cables are usually used in heated sand boxes or on greenhouse benches or to turn a cold frame into a hot frame or sometimes in the ground of greenhouse borders to get an early start germinating/raising seedlings or to get an early start growing short season annuals out of their normal growing season.

Although soil is a better conductor of heat than air, if used outside, most of the heat would dissipate into the surrounding soil away from the root zone and float away into the atmosphere without any structure to the sides and over the top to keep it in, thus using quite a lot of electricity to keep a decent temperature. I don't know about where you are, but here in Britain where I live electricity prices are high and seem to go up by 10% to 20% a year.

I have read of a woman who used heat cables outside to grow an early crop of carrots and beets, but only for germination, and I think she runs or supplies a restaurant so presumably she offsets the cost of the electricity by selling her produce.

See here:[URL="http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/2008/01/soil-heating-ca.html[/URL]

If growing any perennials including bananas, the roots would probably touch the cables or the cables would be ''swallowed" by the roots in the growing season and when you came to switch the heat on in the winter, the cables may burn the roots. If you buried the cables deep enough to avoid this happening they would probably supply minimal heat.

Weeding may also be a problem unless you did it by hand as you wouldn't be able to use a hoe. Cutting pups would be impossible for fear of cutting through the cables. Rodents such as rats and mice could also be a problem as they seem to have a particular fondness for chewing through electrical cables, and once they're cut I don't think they can be joined together again, unlike ordinary electric cables that only require a plastic connector and a bit of tape.

Just a few thoughts and by no means a reason not to try them.
Good luck.

Uncle Fester
02-25-2013, 09:03 PM
I used a couple of them last year, I buried them fairly deep and they were a pain to put in.
I had a fairly large bed of basjoos and I pulled the soil back and ran the cable around (about 8 to 10 inches away) from existing basjoos that I was re planting in early spring that I over wintered inside a warehouse.
Worked good that first year, they grew like crazy that summer, a couple getting well over 12' tall and they pupped like crazy. But yes the problem came in when I decided to take them out in the fall. Almost impossible without destroying the cable. I should have probably just left them in.
Now just trying to motivate myself once again to do it this year.
My opinion probably only good for a year or two and if you decide not to take them out for the winter.

natej740
02-27-2013, 06:03 PM
Here ya go...worked well for this guy...

http://www.bananas.org/f15/1-year-basjoo-growth-mass-9618.html

Hammocked Banana
03-05-2013, 08:45 PM
Here ya go...worked well for this guy...

http://www.bananas.org/f15/1-year-basjoo-growth-mass-9618.html

This changes everything!!!!

hasty22
03-30-2013, 09:09 PM
I used heat cables on my musa basjoo this winter and I just unwrapped them today . They look great . They might hit the roof this year , looking pretty tall already!! Hit Plus 20 C today

<a href="http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/khasty22/media/DSCF3093_zps48fa4bcd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b543/khasty22/DSCF3093_zps48fa4bcd.jpg" border="0" alt="Musa Basjoo Mar 2013 photo DSCF3093_zps48fa4bcd.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/khasty22/media/DSCF3095_zps67d29f13.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b543/khasty22/DSCF3095_zps67d29f13.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSCF3095_zps67d29f13.jpg"/></a>