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caliboy1994
07-14-2012, 06:09 PM
Some of my plants appear to have boron or calcium deficiency. Does anyone know of any fertilizers or products I can use to fix this? Should I use a foliar spray or apply directly to the soil? Any recommendations on dosage? One of the affected plants has 5 and a half feet of p-stem and the other has 4 and a half. Thanks.

Nicolas Naranja
07-14-2012, 06:24 PM
It is unlikely that the problem is lack of nutrients in the soil if it is just now showing up. If you can find a product with calcium and boron in a chelated form you could apply it foliarly. Keyplex has a blossom formula that has Ca-Mg-B chelates.

sunfish
07-14-2012, 06:39 PM
I'll almost guarantee it's too much fert. rather than lack of.

caliboy1994
07-14-2012, 07:25 PM
Probably. In my most recent application, I did lessen the dosage for all my plants. I apply 20-5-30 Banana Fuel monthly. Maybe I should lay off it for a while.

RandyGHO
07-14-2012, 07:30 PM
The question would be then can an increase in calcium and boron help sustain good health with higher levels of fertilizer that would have normally been detrimental?

caliboy1994
07-14-2012, 08:40 PM
I think it can. My fertilizer also contains boron in it, so it might be calcium deficiency then.

sunfish
07-14-2012, 08:54 PM
If I remember right you have clay soil ? Throwing more fertilizer at it won't help.Maybe compost,manures would be a better idea ?

caliboy1994
07-14-2012, 09:50 PM
I do have clay soil. I guess I'll really lower my fert dosage and add more organics. But the deficiency is really starting to affect my plants. For the time being, I need to supply them with the required micronutrients.

Nicolas Naranja
07-14-2012, 10:20 PM
How hot has it been at your location.

caliboy1994
07-14-2012, 11:31 PM
It's been in the 90s lately, and dry.

venturabananas
07-15-2012, 01:09 AM
My fertilizer also contains boron in it, so it might be calcium deficiency then.

This logic is not sound. The NPK gets transported into the newly forming tissues faster than the boron can be. Lay off the fert altogether, get a professional soil test, and spray with a "complete" micronutrient foliar spray.

venturabananas
07-15-2012, 01:10 AM
The question would be then can an increase in calcium and boron help sustain good health with higher levels of fertilizer that would have normally been detrimental?

The short answer is yes.

Nicolas Naranja
07-15-2012, 10:02 AM
It's been in the 90s lately, and dry.

With those conditions certain varieties always show deficiency symptoms. The plant just can't move those nutrients quick enough to keep up with growth.

Ivanov_Kuznetsov
07-15-2012, 07:45 PM
This logic is not sound. The NPK gets transported into the newly forming tissues faster than the boron can be. Lay off the fert altogether, get a professional soil test, and spray with a "complete" micronutrient foliar spray.

Aye, I would stop changing the environment and get some good data before you make a potentially lethal mistake. I suspect I am not the only person who has killed plants trying to correct a suspected nutrient issue.

momoese
07-15-2012, 08:44 PM
Andreas, Mark's idea will achieve what you want, to grow healthy bananas. If you can get the banana fuel feeding regime down and you know your soil via soil testing, that would work fine, but if you go organic you don't really need to do anything other than feed the soil and the plant will take what it needs, no math or soil testing needed.

Nicolas Naranja
07-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Andreas, Mark's idea will achieve what you want, to grow healthy bananas. If you can get the banana fuel feeding regime down and you know your soil via soil testing, that would work fine, but if you go organic you don't really need to do anything other than feed the soil and the plant will take what it needs, no math or soil testing needed.


I'm not sure that going organic would necessarily fix the problem. I've looked into the problem at length and it seems to be an issue all over the subtropics. I see it on my bananas and they are growing in soil that is 30% organic matter. My personal feeling is that the problem will eventually work itself out, but if you are looking to be proactive, foliar feeding is an option. You do have to be careful with boron though.

venturabananas
07-15-2012, 11:07 PM
You do have to be careful with boron though.

That's for sure! From what I understand, the difference between enough and too much is very slight, and boron toxicity is not a good thing!

PR-Giants
07-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Some of my plants appear to have boron or calcium deficiency. Does anyone know of any fertilizers or products I can use to fix this? Should I use a foliar spray or apply directly to the soil? Any recommendations on dosage? One of the affected plants has 5 and a half feet of p-stem and the other has 4 and a half. Thanks.

Plant Nutrients (http://www.ncagr.gov/cyber/kidswrld/plant/nutrient.htm)

Hammocked Banana
07-22-2012, 04:50 PM
Are there any pics of this "deficiency"?

pitangadiego
07-22-2012, 06:04 PM
2 quick sources are Vigoro "Citrus and Avocado" fertilizer, of "Citrus Growers Mix".

PR-Giants
07-22-2012, 08:14 PM
Simply by adding grass clippings to your soil will fix a micronutrient deficiency.
Boron and manganese are the two micronutrients most susceptible to leaching,
A micronutrient deficiency can be avoided simply by adding new organics to your soil.

venturabananas
07-22-2012, 10:59 PM
Are there any pics of this "deficiency"?

You can find some pictures here (or search this website):https://sites.google.com/site/scotnelson/banana-pest--disease-image-gallery

caliboy1994
07-22-2012, 11:17 PM
I'll post some pics once I get home on Wednesday, I'm out of town at the moment.

Hammocked Banana
07-23-2012, 09:22 PM
Ya I have a pretty good idea of what deficiencies look like in bananas, but more so it is just generalized to plants in general, because living in Canada I havent seen many banana plants in person besides mine and the rare oportunities I get to travel. I have spent a lot of time identifiying what deficiencies look like in bananas using various sources because only having 4 months of prime growing season the nanners gotta be in top form to get max growth out of them. After he posts pics, hopefully everyone can help get caliboy's plants back to top form, and maybe I can learn something in the process.

caliboy1994
07-25-2012, 03:43 PM
I got home and took some pics today. The plants with micronutrient problems are Ice Cream and Mysore. Note that Mysore is also displaying BSV symptoms.

Ice Cream:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49843&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49842&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49841&size=1

Mysore:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49840&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49839&size=1

Nicolas Naranja
07-25-2012, 07:51 PM
Do you have any idea what the pH of your soil is?

caliboy1994
07-25-2012, 10:05 PM
I have no idea :ha: I should get it tested. Given that I'm living in a dry area, it's probably on the high side.

caliboy1994
07-26-2012, 06:55 PM
I just bought some fertilizer with plenty of micronutrients in it today. The ingredients are:

20% Total nitrogen
20% Available phosphoric acid
20% Soluble potash
.02% Boron (B)
.05% Chelated copper (Cu)
.10% Chelated iron (Fe)
.05% Chelated manganese (Mn)
.0005% Molybdenum (Mo)
.05% Chelated zinc (Zn)

If I use foliar spray, how much would you recommend I dissolve in a gallon of water?

Also note that I will be fertilizing with Milorganite as well.

caliboy1994
07-26-2012, 07:11 PM
Does it look like calcium deficiency, boron deficiency, or both?

venturabananas
07-26-2012, 07:17 PM
Does it look like calcium deficiency, boron deficiency, or both?

Could be either based on the pictures. Get your soil and maybe the leaves tested.

RandyGHO
07-27-2012, 05:25 AM
Although I am new to bananas, I have noticed a similar problem when I pushed too much fertilizer but after doing more digging, I think my fertilizer rates were okay but my water rates were too low. Then a low pH might have made it more difficult for the plant to get what it needs from the soil.

What I am learning is bananas can grow so fast, a well rounded program is needed to take advantage of that. I read too that the quality of the first four months of a plants life determines the quantity and quality of the fruit.

caliboy1994
07-30-2012, 03:56 PM
I just threw down some Milorganite and cocoa mulch, and gave it some foliar and root feeding with my new 20-20-20 fertilizer. Hopefully this helps!

PR-Giants
07-31-2012, 09:01 AM
I just threw down some Milorganite and cocoa mulch, and gave it some foliar and root feeding with my new 20-20-20 fertilizer. Hopefully this helps!

Wow thats sounds great !!!

It appears you are well on your way to solving that micronutrient deficiency problem.

What were the results of your ph test?

I had thought the final solution was going to be 40-20-30 w/ SBBB water.

caliboy1994
07-31-2012, 01:02 PM
I haven't tested my soil pH. I'll look into buying a pH tester online so that I can do tests myself.

caliboy1994
08-15-2012, 03:13 PM
Now the leaves aren't coming out really deformed, they're just coming out a really light green color, almost yellow, and then take while to turn to their normal green color.

Abnshrek
08-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Mine are coming out almost white then change.. once opened up but doesn't have a problem on any leaves. Its not an Ice Cream, but a D. Orinoco. :^)

venturabananas
08-15-2012, 04:54 PM
Now the leaves aren't coming out really deformed, they're just coming out a really light green color, almost yellow, and then take while to turn to their normal green color.

You are getting the problem corrected then. That is the progression: from deformed, to not deformed but very pale, to normal. Good work.

caliboy1994
08-15-2012, 05:08 PM
Oh, that's good then! :) They're just paler than they used to be though. I added 1 and a half tablespoons of banana fuel to each plant in a gallon of water. Hopefully that doesn't offset it.

Abnshrek
08-15-2012, 05:12 PM
A lil mag sulfate (epsom salts) will green them up.. :^)

caliboy1994
08-15-2012, 05:19 PM
The Milorganite has lots of iron in it, that should help too.

hanabananaman
03-31-2013, 01:46 PM
I am almost 1 year into my banana adddiction and have been dealing with similar problems for a while. After trying to figure it out on the web I had the soil tested and my soil was very high in everything but boron and nitrogen.
Started learning about the calcium boron relationship and had a big improvement when I added boron (and N).That was last summer, after much more rain than usual the last several weeks the symptoms returned. I put 10 grams of boron per plant and saw a noticeable difference in leaf posture within hours. That was over a week ago and I just added 10 more grams per plant to bring me closer to the 25 gram dose recommended in an article I read.They are looking even stronger now. I am aware of boron toxicity danger and could use advice on when to follow up with more. I have been using a well known fert. made for bananas and am starting to wonder if the fert. has what it claims. I wont mention the name until I am sure there is a problem. I have very hard water and before I started figuring this out last summer I noticed they were looking good if I was spraying the leaves more than once a day. They were getting alot of calcium in the spray.
Good luck
Larry