View Full Version : Compost Tea Yea or Nay?
Snookie
06-22-2012, 04:32 PM
What is your results from using/making compost teas for nanna's
Worth it or not?
Thanks in advance
Snookie
sunfish
06-22-2012, 05:01 PM
yea
oakshadows
06-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Mr. Mayor,
Is breakfast good for the kids? Is a good menu good for health? Compost tea if, made properly, will be become the most important item you add to your plants. We use it on a continuous basis and it does do the job. We use composted cow manure in water with molasses with aeration. The air helps the bacteria (the good stuff) thrive, the molasses adds sugar Which most chewing insects can't digest. Our tea increases the good bacteria into the soil which helps the plants gather the minerals we put in to increase growth. We do organic and it isn't as easy as throwing some synthetic stuff around but sure makes us feel good that we know what we are eating.
Also there are some growth hormones that will help but you will have to Google that and add that knowledge for your use.
Good growing.
jasonlotp
06-22-2012, 05:40 PM
No, it isn't worth it by a longshot.
Anecdotally people think it is but there is little scientific evidence that it does all of the great things people think it does.
I could point you to dozens of places but here is one article:
Still confused about compost tea, I turn to Rodale | Garden Rant (http://gardenrant.com/2010/02/where-does-og-mag-stand-on-the-big-compost-tea-controversy.html)
Save your time and money (and possibly your health due to E. coli risks). Apply compost instead.
Snookie
06-22-2012, 09:08 PM
Hummmmmm..........
Anyone else:}
Velutina
06-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Compost tea makes no sense to me. It reminds me of the "holistic" section of Whole Foods where you can buy expensive homeopathic remedies for anything! I've watched a lot of youtube videos showing people make their compost tea and it usually involves them adding small amounts of expensive ingredients and bubbling it to get aerobic bacteria to do their magic.
It seems the point of this is to have "beneficial bacteria" grow which somehow help your plants. I would imagine the bacteria growing in the tea die when added to the garden, meaning their only benefit is the chemical processes they do in the tea and the biomass they add to the garden. Seems more logical to provide an optimal environment in your soil for beneficial bacteria to grow and let them do their magic there.
nannerfunboi
06-22-2012, 10:21 PM
i have used compost tea for yrs.. i tried the aerobic system..read all
the stuff everyone else has..im sure.
for me..its more than i want to do..
as for the live bacteria in aerated tea..?? maybe..
what i do..i use 55 gal plastic trash cans.. put in couple
shovels of rabbit manure,and gal of alfalfa pellets.. fill with
water..let set for a week.. then use 1/2 1/2 tea with water..
i pour this over everything..sometimes me..when i slosh the bucket
yuck..LOL
im sold on my compost tea.. and plants seem to appreciate it..
the aerobic system.. i dont know...
trebor
06-23-2012, 08:16 AM
Tea ! That aint Lipton baby.....
I have used it for years ! Sea weed and plant parts! Manures! Air pump is the best way to go .. It just needs some bubbles .. then poor it around the plants . You can see the plants like it .. Lots of people do not like to use it because it can smell wile being fermented. It can smell wile using it .. Fish emulation is nothing more the fish tea. And yes I have made fish tea also .. You need to dilute it! I use 25% tea 75% water . I spread it on the out side of the drip line of any plant I feed it to . Ive used it on Banana, Papaya, Citrus, Avocado, Was going to use it on my lychee tree but the dag gum snails :( ate my tree!
Now I am lychee-tree-less
try it on a plant you single out and see what you think! I just had a Williams that just seemed not to grow in a 5 gallon bucket. Same soil as the others had but it just stayed small/wimpy a few months ago I gave it sea weed tea.. Richard has informed me in one of his posts that sea weed is a growth hormone . Or it acts as one .. I believe it .. That Williams has now started to grow like a normal banana..
*dim*
06-23-2012, 12:33 PM
I use actively aerated compost tea (AACT) all the time .... I have great results .... so do many others
the guys who grow giant pumkins (the ones that weigh over 1500 lbs) use AACT .... check the pumpkin forum and you will see that they do not manage to grow them that large with conventional fertilizers
it's not just a matter of adding poo to a bucket of water .... there are many other ingredients added such as seaweed, humic acid, rock dust, fish hydrolosate etc etc , and the main ingredient is worm compost (vermicompost) ...
you need a decent air pump (at least 45 litres per minute), and you need an aquarium heater set at 20 degrees C
the guys who grow medical cannabis in the lofts of their roofs use (and test different recipies of AACT ....
as for Linda Chalker-Scott ... she makes a real fool of herself on this subject (as well as many others ....) ... I have read some of her twitter comments .... she is in big pharma's pockets and only endorses what they manufacture ....
John Evans holds the world record for several giant vegetables .... watch this youtube video:
The Secret is in the Soil - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGqJbFZzCo)
if you want to learn how things grow, learn about high brix gardening .... here are 2 good threads on the 420 forum (read all the pages ... you will learn):
Doc Bud: All Organic High Brix (http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/161240-doc-bud-all-organic-high-brix.html)
Vapedogg223’s Got a Brand New Bag! All Organic - High Brix -Nirvana Ice- 49 Plant SOG (http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/163945-vapedogg223-s-got-brand-new-bag-all-organic-high-brix-nirvana-ice-49-plant-sog.html)
and once you have the food grade bucket, aquarium airpump and heater, it costs under £8 to make 25 litres (5 gallons) of really good actively aerated compost tea
.
trebor
06-23-2012, 01:09 PM
:woohoonaner:
compost super tea v2.0 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FabPAD6npbU)
*dim*
06-23-2012, 01:39 PM
here's one recipe that I use often ... I do not dilute it and use it neat .... I do not use a bag for the ingredients ... I add them directly to the water ... I use 2 airstones ... a large cylindrical one, and a large 8 inch flat round one which sits on the bottom of the bucket:
5 gallon (25 litre) plastic (food grade bucket) ... £15 (I use a beer making bucket)
45 litres/minute aquarium piston airpump ... £35
aquarium heater ... £8
2 airstones and plastic pump tubing ... £8
total for the above is approx £66 ... no need to buy the expensive kits for $500 ... it soes the exact same .... the pump is the main thing ... make sure that for a 5 gallon bucket, the pump delivers at least 45 litres of air/minute
---------------------------------------------------
25 litres of vermicompost (worm humus) ... £10
1 litre of advanced nutrients iguana juice grow ... £20
10kg verve volcanic rockdust (£5.98 from B&Q)
3kg bucket of bat guano ... £13
1 litre of biobizz fishmix ... £10
1 litre of biobizz Alg-A-Mic (algae and seaweed extract) ... £9.99
1 large bottle of organic pure black strap molasses (unsulphured) ... £4
forest or garden topsoil or homemade compost .... for free
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
add 20 litres of rainwater or tapwater to the bucket .... let the airstones bubble and set the heater to 20 degrees C ... let it bubble for 12 hours (to remove the chlorine if using tapwater), and to bring the temp to 20 degrees C ... if your tap water has chloramide, you will have to use the stuff that they use for aquariums to get rid of that ... rainwater, R/O, or pond water is the best
to make the tea, add:
3 heaped tablespoons of molasses
6 cups of vermicompost
6 cups of forest/garden topsoil (or homemade compost)
1 tablespoon of bat guano
5 heaped tablespoons of volcanic rock dust
let it bubble for 24 hours .... then, add 80ml of iguana juice grow, 80ml of biobizz fishmix and 80ml of biobizz Alg-A-Mic
switch off the airpump/heater and place the 'brew' in a watering can and use that as a soil drench and foliar feed on your plants/veg (dont put it in a sprayer as you may kill the fungi/bacteria)
use it as soon as possible, as when you switch of the air, the beneficial fungi/bacteria start dying .... I have read that you must use it within 2 hrs
smell the brew before adding the fish/algae/iguana juice.... if it smells rotten, dispose of it (it should smell like good compost/topsoil)
thats the best stuff that you can use .... you can experement and add additional additives such as alfalfa, humic acid etc etc (iguana juice has humic and fulvic acid)
the sludge that is left in the bucket is used as a mulch/topdressing around your prized plants
use this every 2 weeks during the growing season ...
sunfish
06-23-2012, 01:50 PM
Yea
momoese
06-23-2012, 02:57 PM
I've tried both ACT and thrice daily hand stirred compost tea and neither made any difference in plant growth, plant health, productivity or taste. Now I just compost the soil and let nature run it's course.
This was a great link with lots of info in the comment section btw.
Still confused about compost tea, I turn to Rodale | Garden Rant (http://gardenrant.com/2010/02/where-does-og-mag-stand-on-the-big-compost-tea-controversy.html)
*dim*
06-23-2012, 04:03 PM
I've tried both ACT and thrice daily hand stirred compost tea and neither made any difference in plant growth, plant health, productivity or taste. Now I just compost the soil and let nature run it's course.
This was a great link with lots of info in the comment section btw.
Still confused about compost tea, I turn to Rodale | Garden Rant (http://gardenrant.com/2010/02/where-does-og-mag-stand-on-the-big-compost-tea-controversy.html)
the link to gardenrant was crap ... read the comments and you will find that the commentators have not tested AACT brewed properly
I wonder why Harvard University have now started using actively aerated compost tea on their properties???
http://www.uos.harvard.edu/fmo/landscape/organiclandscaping/ny_times_the_grass_is_greener.pdf
but if you are a sceptic, and you have never tried or tested it (properly) stick to petrolium based fertilizers
momoese
06-23-2012, 04:39 PM
but if you are a sceptic, and you have never tried or tested it (properly) stick to petrolium based fertilizers
I garden organically without using any synthetic or petro ferts. Nice of you to assume that though. :03:
I read a lot about ACT before ever trying it. It just didn't provide the results I hoped for. Your mileage may vary.
I do just fine working the soil so I see no need for the hassle of ACT. Again, that's just my opinion from real life experience, and I was asked for my opinion so there you have it. If it works for you then that's great. :bananas_b
*dim*
06-23-2012, 04:45 PM
I garden organically without using any synthetic or petro ferts. Nice of you to assume that though. :03:
I read a lot about ACT before ever trying it. It just didn't provide the results I hoped for. Your mileage may vary.
I do just fine working the soil so I see no need for the hassle of ACT. Again, that's just my opinion from real life experience, and I was asked for my opinion so there you have it. If it works for you then that's great. :bananas_b
great ... I'm happy that you have found a way that works for you
Rmplmnz
06-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Like Mitchel we are strictly organic.
The "Forrest Floor" is key.
Once a year..but it takes several months to complete.
5 tons of leaves
5 tons of tree mulch
7-8 tons of horse manure
Plus newspapers, cardboard and misc. other items....
http://www.bananas.org/f2/praying-hands-jumbo-leaves-11912-2.html#post135487
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34392&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34392)http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34389&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34389)
Not attesting one way or the other on the Tea (no real experience to have a basis)...if it did work we would need a swimming pool full....
Snookie
06-23-2012, 07:21 PM
How Ya'll Are?
Glad to get so much feed back. Thank you all so much.
Well I made my first batch of tea 55 gal so we'll see how she goes:}
Oh here a picture of my first attemp at removing a pup and repotted it.
Benn 24 hrs so far so good...any suggestions on how long to leave in pot before putting in the ground would be appreciated.
Peace B with You all...
Snookie
http://hostingb.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-18/747Pup-Removed-from-other-Plant.JPG (http://hotchyx.com/)Adult Image Hosting (http://hotchyx.com/)
trebor
06-23-2012, 08:24 PM
How Ya'll Are?
Glad to get so much feed back. Thank you all so much.
Well I made my first batch of tea 55 gal so we'll see how she goes:}
Oh here a picture of my first attemp at removing a pup and repotted it.
Benn 24 hrs so far so good...any suggestions on how long to leave in pot before putting in the ground would be appreciated.
Peace B with You all...
Snookie
I hope every one agrees with me on this one :)
If you know where you want to put the pup.... Ya dont need a pot!
Just plant it in the location you want it ! It will grow ….
nannerfunboi
06-23-2012, 09:01 PM
rmplmnz.. wow..thats super man!!
i go thru alot of leaves too.. last yr the boys mowed
down over 300 bags.. they are almost all gone now..
i use shredded leaves in my soil mix for my amorphs..
pitangadiego
06-23-2012, 10:15 PM
I just make a basin out of compost around each banana mat, and water through it, so I guess that is compost tea - in which case it works wonders.
Velutina
06-23-2012, 11:48 PM
Saying that Harvard, pot growers, and world-class pumpkin growers use it is just an argument to authority. I can use the argument to authority fallacy too. I have a BS in biology/botany and a doctorate in medicine, so believe me. I'm not convinced by anecdotal evidence. If your goal is growth, you'll probably get the best results with chemical fertilizers.
Chemical fertilizers have a bad name, but they work VERY well! They are proven to get better results on just about any crop. I wouldn't even consider using compost tea. It seems to be expensive, stinky, a PITA, and has shown NO benefit over conventional composting. Since your ingredients are ALREADY composted, the whole idea doesn't make sense. I see no reason to think a large aerobic bacteria population in the tea would translate to better plant growth or even better bacterial growth in the soil. Maybe i'm just too skeptical with my training in biology. IDK...
Worm_Farmer
06-24-2012, 07:04 AM
I prefer to just spread compost / worm castings around the root base on top of the soil before I add mulch or manure to the beds. I only make TEA when my castings are coming out WAY to wet and clumpy and I cant work with them very well. Other wise its much less work to just spread it around and let the magic of nature do its thing.
Rmplmnz
06-24-2012, 09:12 AM
Chemical fertilizers have a bad name, but they work VERY well! They are proven to get better results on just about any crop.
This is probably a good solution for Las Vegas....I would be hesitate to recommend chemical fertilizers universally.
For gardeners living in an area with periodic heavy rainfall the runoff from chemical fertilizers causes big problems.
We live in Tampa:
Tampa Bay, the largest open-water estuary in Florida, extends approximately 35 miles inland from the Gulf of Mexico and is 5 to 10 miles wide along most of its length. Four segments make up the open-water section. Hillsborough Bay, the smallest of these segments, receives runoff from a large portion of the city of Tampa. The Hillsborough and Alafia Rivers drain into Hillsborough Bay, as do a number of smaller tributaries. Middle Tampa Bay receives runoff from the Little Manatee River and drainage from smaller tributaries along the Hillsborough and Pinellas County coastlines. Old Tampa Bay receives runoff from portions of Clearwater, St. Petersburg, and Tampa. Lower Tampa Bay, which has the largest volume of the four segments, connects the mouth of the bay to the Gulf of Mexico. The Manatee River, which receives runoff from the city of Bradenton, flows into the southern portion of this bay segment.
Four other segments constitute the drainage basins of coastal tributaries that flow directly to the bay: the Coastal Lower Tampa Bay area lies along the eastern side of Lower Tampa Bay, the Coastal Middle Tampa Bay area consists of the eastern and western shores of Middle Tampa Bay, the Coastal Hillsborough Bay area borders Hillsborough Bay to the northeast, and the Coastal Old Tampa Bay area surrounds the northern and western sides of Old Tampa Bay.
The Hillsborough, Alafia, Manatee, and Little Manatee Rivers contribute significant flows to Tampa Bay, including flows from at least three second-magnitude springs (with discharges of 6.46 to 64.6 million gallons per day): Crystal and Sulphur Springs on the Hillsborough River and Lithia Springs on the Alafia River.
Tampa Bay Watershed - Hillsborough River, Alafia River, Manatee River - Florida's Water: Ours to Protect (http://www.protectingourwater.org/watersheds/map/tampa_bay/)
There are numerous other threads that have hotly debated the use of chemical fertilizers (just do a search and you will get varying opinions).
A quick google search on run-off will yields a lot of hits:
"How Fertilizers Harm Earth More Than Help Your Lawn"
Chemical runoff from residential and farm products affects rivers, streams and even the ocean
July 20, 2009 | 14
Synthetic agricultural chemicals became commonplace beginning with the s--called "Green Revolution" in the second half of the 20th century, but their benefits haven't come without environmental costs—namely the wholesale pollution of most of our streams, rivers, ponds, lakes and even coastal areas, as these synthetic chemicals run-off into the nearby waterways.
Fertilizer Runoff Overwhelms Streams and Rivers--Creating Vast "Dead Zones": Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fertilizer-runoff-overwhelms-streams)
Fertilizer Runoff Overwhelms Streams and Rivers--Creating Vast "Dead Zones"
The nation's waterways are brimming with excess nitrogen from fertilizer--and plans to boost biofuel production threaten to aggravate an already serious situation
Fertilizer Runoff Overwhelms Streams and Rivers--Creating Vast "Dead Zones": Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fertilizer-runoff-overwhelms-streams)
trebor
06-24-2012, 09:30 AM
I think TEA and Chemical fertilizers all have there place and I feel its due to your situation. Or your soil condition as well as the type of soil you have..
Example South Florida soil is mostly sand and in some areas muck and other areas shell bed.. So in a 100 square mile area you can have 3 very different types of soil. All there can and do support plant growth. The fertilizer/compost/tea can be applied to all three different soils and all have results. Some better than others.. What happens is all of us learn from our own experience in our environment , we see results. Then we pass these result on to our friends and associates , we end up with all the different ideas floating around clouding the air! Pile on the ease and convenience of the big box store down the road and we end up with even more results .. I look at People like for example bananafarmer video
http://www.bananas.org/f2/video-greenhouse-walking-through-5min-15848.html
and he shows me rocky soil then I see his chemical fertilizer menu posted in his photo gallery .. WAMMO success is written all over his video and still pictures of the bunch sizes . Im sure he did not photo his smallest bunch as an example :)
There is such a huge difference in commercial growing compared to having two nanners in your back yard its amazing . I know because my family has been in agriculture (Citrus) for over 90 years
So I guess my point is we all do it differently and Musa is a very forgiving plant ..
Now Im going to go turn over my compost pile and get my 5 gallon bucket ready for some more tea making later this month Ill stop by the Big Box Store and get me a bag of 12 5 8 .. Then later I will be out at the horse farm picking up some manure .. I might even surf the internet looking for some essential essential minerals.... All this fertilizer advice has me excited !
I agree with Rmplmnz post as it relates to caution needed where fertilizer is used
Kostas
06-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Results do can be obtained with all types of fertilizers,that cant be argued. But since results can be used with eco friendly ways,why use environment polluting ones? Leafs,manure,tree chippings,are all things considered as byproducts and thrash many times(though wrongly),so using them as a means of fertilization is the best way these can be ''disposed'',plus you get all the benefits :) On the other hand,animal farms dont always dispose or use their byproducts in a correct manner and thus they also end up polluting lakes,streams and the environment. So using these fertilizer sources both benefits the environment and your plants and soil. Dont we all want to maximize benefits?
Organic fertilization also benefits the soil microorganisms and thus,the soil's properties are also improved along with its nutritional content,and pathogen and pest counts decrease as the food chain is not disrupted,unlike with chemical fertilizers which negatively affect beneficial soil microorganisms(and thus soil texture is not improved by the natural action of fungi/bacteria and macroorganisms,only getting worse as a result of rain and stepping on it)and leave open ground for the pathogenic ones. I dont say that plants cannot be successfully be cultivated with chemical fertilizers but you just put yourself in a never ending chain of doing everything yourself when nature can do those things for you if you just dont negatively affect its processes,like it does in forests and things grow more than just successfully there! Like Adam,i have excelled in my Botany and Pharmaceutical Botany classes and have worked alongside with our Forest Research Institute and know the natural processes involved and disrupted by chemical fertilizer toxicity on soil organisms :) Letting nature take care of most of the plants's needs is quite convenient and works very well too! You just have to plan things correctly in order to avoid disrupting something from the system while adding what the system cant (yet)provide for the plants you are growing and let it be transformed towards their needs.
I am not a believer of the need or extra properties found in compost tea either as its just another laborious way of using manure,compost and other organic fertilizers than can just be spread on the soil,under the mulch,and work equally well that way,without using air pumps that work on electricity or extra labor. Its cheaper and uses these natural resources at their fullest instead of just a water wash of them. The rain falling has the same effect on them but they get the chance to eventually completely decompose and be incorporated in the soil instead of thrown away after making the tea :) The tea only contains most of the water soluble substances found in the ingredients used plus some more from the brief action of the bacteria but there are more useful ingredients that will only become available after many weeks or months of these organic substances decomposing. The bacteria themselves could help the plants only if the right kind and surely substances from the tea will feed and give a boost to soil bacteria but all that would happen anyway if the original ingredients used to make the tea were just spread on the soil around the plants. It would be a little slower process but the benefits would be larger and the material use fuller.
Snookie
06-24-2012, 10:46 AM
Hummmm I'll put Mr. Kostas down as a Nay! LOL:2738:
Rmplmnz
06-24-2012, 12:03 PM
Hummmm I'll put Mr. Kostas down as a Nay! LOL:2738:
Ha ha..exactly..oops..threads tend to take some twists and turns (did I take this thread off topic?).
Hmmnnn "Compost Tea Yea or Nay".
I would say "Nay" from my standpoint just from a time (efficiency) perspective.
We do everything on a large scale (for a single family home lot), the Forrest Floor works well for us from an irrigation and plant feeding perspective.
If you are willing to put forth the level of effort required to produce and utilize Compost Tea you may want to look in to Worm Castings. I know many members have had excellent results with Worm Castings/Tea. We have a Worm Bin.
Pete ("Lagniappe"), Kat ("Dreamingofthetropics") and other members use Worm Composting on a large scale.
Snookie
06-24-2012, 02:47 PM
10-4
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49456 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49455&ppuser=13202)
oakshadows
06-24-2012, 03:01 PM
With manure from 4 head of cattle there is an abundant supply of manure. I don't like to turn compost so I let the worms do the work. Chris has good growing with the Forrest floor way and we are close but not that intense. You get out what you put in. Commercial is a lot easier but more expensive in the long run. With a good fondation of organically improved soils one can expect to achieve a very good harvest with very good taste, at least we do.
Snookie, who is Dora?
Snookie
06-24-2012, 03:36 PM
Snookie, who is Dora?
I don't know me !:waving:
MSmith
06-26-2012, 09:36 AM
I'm not interested in growing huge fruit ( 24 inch bananas ) or veggies but that biofilm on the leaves that supposed to resist bugs and disease that John Evans said interests me.
LadyNana
06-26-2012, 10:01 AM
I'm learning lots already here! I didn't know about compost tea, but I always break open my used tea bags and add the leaves to the compost. My preferred brand is PG Tips.
All my plants seem to appreciate a cuppa!!! No milk or sugar tho'!!!
LOL:ha:
Snookie
06-27-2012, 05:09 PM
All my plants seem to appreciate a cuppa!!! No milk or sugar tho'!!!
LOL:ha:
Hummmmm Black is OK by me:} :nanadrink:
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