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bananimal
06-17-2012, 06:54 PM
This is the second year flower from the Datil la Lima mat. Pstem is 1.5 times fatter than last year. And it flowered at 6 ft - a little taller that the first. Can't wait!

Lesson to be learned here is short cycle naners guarantee fruit in one season! Same goes for SH 3640, Goldfinger, Viente Cohol and Hua Moa.

And I'm long past growing these guys just to look at big leaves.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49344&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49344&ppuser=820)

Darkman
06-18-2012, 07:35 PM
Hi Dan,

I know what you mean but can you elaborate or give me a link to a "short cycle banana" discussion? I'd like to know more about the varities that are in that group.

Iunepeace
06-19-2012, 01:24 AM
Great photo! Do you know if the Pisang Mas* (Ladyfinger/Sucrier/Sugar) banana is among that list of short cycle naners? Also the SDC? :)

caliboy1994
06-19-2012, 02:31 AM
Are there any cold hardy short cycle bananas?

bananimal
06-19-2012, 09:31 AM
Great photo! Do you know if the Pisang Awak (Ladyfinger/Sucrier/Sugar) banana is among that list of short cycle naners? Also the SDC? :)

I am not aware of any published list of short cycle naners, let alone cold resistant ones.

That list is mine alone based on what I've grown and my contact with the U of Ga. And what I call short cycle applys to my area and further south in Florida only. The cultivars I listed grow out and produce harvestable fruit each year before the cold snaps start in December. For my piece of zone 9b and south.

bananimal
06-19-2012, 03:52 PM
Here is Nicks thread talking about short cycle VC and the U of Ga.

For clarificatiion --- there is no such thing as cold hardy bananas --- just cold tolerant. Bunch grapes are cold hardy!

http://www.bananas.org/f2/veinte-cohol-ga-14874.html

Bananaman88
06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
I need to try a Goldfinger sometime to see if it will fruit reliably in Houston. The most reliable for me here has been Orinoco and California Gold, though I have also had Raja Puri, Dw. Brazilian, and Namwah fruit 2-3 years in a row (just not quite soon enough to get mature fruit). I grew Hua Moa here for about 3 years, and though it got quite tall (7-8 of pstem), it never fruited for me.

bananimal
06-22-2012, 07:35 PM
Hey Brent,

Definitely go with Goldfinger. It always gives me fruit before the cold snaps start in Dec. Also SH3640. I will have more pups of each down the road.

Dan

RAINFOREZT
06-23-2012, 06:08 AM
Datil la Lima..So its a dwarf banana plant? how is fruits taste like?
what's the meaning of the name? does it came from Peru?

And how tall the gold finger will grow?

bananimal
06-23-2012, 06:56 AM
Datil la Lima..So its a dwarf banana plant? how is fruits taste like?
what's the meaning of the name? does it came from Peru?

And how tall the gold finger will grow?

Last year was the first bunch and it came out stunted. Produced small fruits but the taste was better than any other naner I've tried.

This year the main pstem is much fatter and the flower popped out taller at 6.5 ft. Will know how it really tastes now for sure.

Besides being dwarfish it is a short cycle -- sure to get ripe fruit in one season. Like the Viente Cohol.

The meaning of the name --- don't know, don't care. Maybe NANAMAN made it up. :ha: And it came from him in Lake Park, Fl --- by way of Palm Bay.

Dalmatiansoap
06-23-2012, 08:34 AM
Congrats on the flower!
It sure would be interesting to find out whats behind "Datil" name.
:woohoonaner:

venturabananas
06-23-2012, 10:20 PM
Looks like a good variety. Looks a lot like Dwarf Brazilian, though maybe not the same, and nothing like Datil la Lima...

TARS 17413 - Musa acuminata - Datil La Lima - Florida, United States (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1647292)

bananimal
06-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Looks like a good variety. Looks a lot like Dwarf Brazilian, though maybe not the same, and nothing like Datil la Lima...

TARS 17413 - Musa acuminata - Datil La Lima - Florida, United States (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1647292)

Here we go again with the redd trunk! What I got is what ars grin sends you regardless of the posted pic for accession tars 17413.

And ordering it again and again isn't gonna make the trunk turn red since they are TC plantlets. Next time I post D la L pics I'll use a red magic marker. :ha:

venturabananas
06-24-2012, 09:38 AM
Dan, it's not just the red trunk. That plant ARS GRIN has photos of clearly has an AA genome, as they indicate. Yours has an AAB genome. They are very different plants. Whatever they sent you seems to be a great plant. It's just not what would normally be referred to as "Datil", which is usually used to refer to certain AA genome bananas. It's just another case banana confusion, apparently by the people providing the TC plants.

Given that it looks a lot like Dwarf Brazilian, does it taste like DB? To me, it looks like an extra short, stout DB. Which would make it a perfect banana, by my reckoning!

Darkman
06-25-2012, 08:57 PM
My Goldfinger bloomed at five foot P-stem.

Is that normal?

Are there Dwarf Goldfingers?

bananimal
06-25-2012, 09:13 PM
My Goldfinger bloomed at five foot P-stem.

Is that normal?

Are there Dwarf Goldfingers?

Not normal.

Not that I know of. Any indication of stunted growth other than height? What was the caliper of the pstem 1 ft from ground?

RAINFOREZT
06-26-2012, 06:41 AM
Here we go again with the redd trunk! What I got is what ars grin sends you regardless of the posted pic for accession tars 17413.

And ordering it again and again isn't gonna make the trunk turn red since they are TC plantlets. Next time I post D la L pics I'll use a red magic marker. :ha:

I think if you just peel the skin of the stem little bit and then you will see the red colour.

Darkman
06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Not normal.

Not that I know of. Any indication of stunted growth other than height? What was the caliper of the pstem 1 ft from ground?

Not having another to compare it too makes it hard to say. The P-stem at one foot is five inches. The plant overall looks healthy. It has produced six hands and that will be all. It is pupping so I think it is OK. This is a P-stem from last year and it was not protected at all during our warm Winter.

venturabananas
06-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Not having another to compare it too makes it hard to say. The P-stem at one foot is five inches. The plant overall looks healthy. It has produced six hands and that will be all. It is pupping so I think it is OK. This is a P-stem from last year and it was not protected at all during our warm Winter.

Yes, it's not a normal height for Goldfinger (see linked doc), but it's probably not a cause for concern. Any temporary or long-term stress could cause it to fruit at an unusually small size. If it died back at all over winter, that would reduce the height some. Also, the first stem to fruit from a corm (the "mother" plant) is usually shorter than subsequent stems. It could also be a somatic mutation for dwarfism, which you could tell by shorter than normal petioles. But I bet the next stem on that plant will get taller. And 6 hands is better than none! Which is what I got from the 3 Goldfingers that have flowered for me.

http://www.fhia.org.hn/dowloads/info_hibridos/fhia01.pdf

Worm_Farmer
06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
my GF flowed short also. It is the 1st it has flowered for me, and it was cut back down to the corm and also got freeze damaged. I agree that the next stalk will be much bigger.

http://thumbnails43.imagebam.com/19884/e3e0fb198835784.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e3e0fb198835784)

Worm_Farmer
06-27-2012, 04:05 PM
As for the red trunk, Mine has it a little bit. I have noticed that the sun exposure directly to the trunk makes the red fade away. It does the same thing with my Dwarf Red's.

http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/19884/e0017e198837686.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e0017e198837686) http://thumbnails75.imagebam.com/19884/584ae6198837704.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/584ae6198837704)

I should have got a better pic of the back most pup, as it does have a little more red on it, but the trunks get direct sun.

Darkman
07-06-2012, 11:54 AM
Thanks Ventura Bananaa, Worm Farmer, Bananimal and others,

The plant is still looking great and I think it may earn it's place on the keeper list and get moved to a more favorable place in the garden if it taste as good as others have said.

bananimal
07-06-2012, 12:31 PM
As for the red trunk, Mine has it a little bit. I have noticed that the sun exposure directly to the trunk makes the red fade away. It does the same thing with my Dwarf Red's.

http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/19884/e0017e198837686.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e0017e198837686) http://thumbnails75.imagebam.com/19884/584ae6198837704.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/584ae6198837704)

I should have got a better pic of the back most pup, as it does have a little more red on it, but the trunks get direct sun.

The kurbing looks great --- hope you are happy with it. I love mine.

Best way to give a big boost to that Gfinger and others is 3 to 4 inches of bark mulch. Fill it up!

Darkman
07-14-2012, 01:45 PM
All of my bananas are heavily (some up to nine inches) mulched. I believe it helps tremendously with water retention and micro nutrient availability.

bananimal
07-14-2012, 03:59 PM
I still havn't put the mulch in yet. Have seen how it makes everything take off at NANAMAN's and Wormfarmers places. It creates an organic supply system for the worms, myco colonies and the plants love it.

Iunepeace
07-14-2012, 06:41 PM
I agree with the mulching. Bananas are shameless when it comes to greedily using any available nutrients to fuel vigorous growth. I mulched a few of them a month or two back heavily with some organics and they've sent a profusion of roots UP into the mulch at every corner. It definitely gave them a boost, and I have no qualms now about laying it on as thick as it can get. Good soil amender too :D

bananimal
07-14-2012, 09:05 PM
I remember NANAMAN telling me he laid in his mulch around 12 inches deep. And he uses stable muck out. Used horse bedding. Most of the horse poop is removed at the stables but there were chunks visible on the surface. The plants love it and root well up into the mulch mass. Same happens to me when I do a first time planting with a 3 inch top dress of Black Kow. Big thick white roots poking out all over the place.

Brians bunches are always 1.5 to 2 times bigger and flower earlier than anyone else that grow naners without mulching. When I finally finish pulling mats and planting with new varieties I'll mulch to the max also.

Iunepeace
07-15-2012, 01:11 AM
^That is indeed strongly indicative of their love for good feeding through intensive mulching techniques. It also has the added benefit of regulating soil temperature and conserving soil moisture and evaporation (especially helpful for arid areas).

I agree with the performance in comparison to those that don't have mulching. I have noticed similar instances, at least growth-wise, between my bananas that are near said mulch and those that have to contend with unmulched soil.

Speaking of dressing with 3 inches of Black Kow, how long a diameter do you make the circle of top dressing when you plant a banana? As in how far out on all sides of the sucker do you extend said dressing Mr. SameName?

bananimal
07-15-2012, 01:39 AM
Hey Dan, it's Dan,

I put down a 3 ft diameter circle of Blk Kow at 3 inches thick for a first planting. The main reason is ----- I got a tip when I started with bananas that cow manure compost kills off the nematodes.

I also do a light top dressing annually with BK on all the mats. Increasing the diameter as the mats mature and spread out.

My new thing is making a mix for the hole fill with 1/3 each --- Blk Kow, green yard waste compost and original soil. I get the green yard waste compost from a certified organic nursery.

Iunepeace
07-15-2012, 03:38 AM
Hullo SameName,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you're so liberal and extensive with the dimensions of your dressings; I'm sure the bananas appreciate it. I certainly hope that claim of cow manure killing off nematodes is valid; it would be most convenient.

The top dressing sounds good as well; how far apart do you space said mats, and what maintenance in terms of pseudostems per mat would you recommend?

I also mix a good bit of organics in with each new planting: seaweed, horse manure, and native soil. It definitely makes a difference in growth for my bananas. The green yard waste is a good idea as well; I try to bag most of the cut grass every time the lawn is mowed now to use in the garden, and I think I'll add some of that to the holes as well. :D

bananimal
07-15-2012, 08:59 AM
I space the mats 8 ft apart. Only one main pstem per mat with 2 suckers for follow on.

Use a chipper to chop up palm fronds, pruning material and mix it with the grass. It must decompose/compost to the point where nothing is identifiable and it smells like earth. Do the research on this. Or do like I do - find a source.

Darkman
07-15-2012, 08:16 PM
It was my understanding that nematodes will not live in moist soil.

Is that not correct?

bananimal
07-18-2012, 08:53 AM
Update -- nice little choking bunch.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49761&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49761&ppuser=820)