View Full Version : Mysore / Pisang Klotek - Worth it?
Illia
06-03-2012, 02:17 PM
So first I must ask, are these two really the same?
Second, I have to ask, are they worth it (for me)? The flavor and the high reputation through the forum sound amazing, however, I live in zone 8 (not sure if it is A or B, temps change each few decades) and I overwinter my bananas from about October to April. Now, I hear that these take over 20 months just for the fruit to ripen, so I must ask, is that true, and does that automatically make it not even worth trying in my climate?
I'm new to growing bananas, so I don't know how much of the ripening process is required to be on the live p-stem and how much can just be hung in a non-freezing room. So, if it takes more than 7 months for a variety to ripen, does that mean I need more than 7 months of frost-free environment to get worthy bananas?
momoese
06-03-2012, 02:22 PM
It takes about 6 months to ripen here in So Cal depending on the season. I think the bunch could be cut down and brought inside to ripen after 4 months or so. They just need enough time to fill out a little. It might have an affect on the flavor and texture though.
caliboy1994
06-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Based on my experience with BSV and Mysore, go with Pisang Klotek or Pisang Ceylon.
Illia
06-03-2012, 04:25 PM
So, the two are not the same?
Would I really need to worry about BSV though? Unless of course the plant I purchased already had it, I'm pretty much in an area one could never find any pests/virus/diseases when it comes to bananas.
I'm glad to hear of the 6 month ripening period. I really hope someone else can chime in and confirm ripening to happen in less than 9 months.
kaczercat
06-03-2012, 05:37 PM
well I was reading something on We be bananas and there is only one or two small differences between the two the hight and I think resistant to BSV. I have a mysore and it's doing great! no, like me you don't have to worry about BSV. as the plant matures the colors in the leaves/p-stem are beautiful. As for the taste people have said Mysore is one of their top favourites.
harveyc
06-04-2012, 12:52 AM
Realistically, it's not very practical to try to grow bananas for fruit in your climate, IMO. Still, many of us do things for the challenge and that is much of the fun of it. Besides the time for getting a bunch to ripen, it takes many more months for the plant to get to the point to produce a flower to begin with. Most of my bananas have taken three years to fruit and that's in USDA zone 9b. The first year is getting established and get to maybe four feet tall or a little more. The next year they might get tall enough to flower but that is less than ideal for me since it would be late in the summer or early fall and the bunch would never develop/mature. Ideally, at the end of the second year it is large enough to be close to flowering and will flower by June. For all of this to happen, the plant must withstand the two winters and stay alive, albeit with all of the leaves killed from frost/freezes. In your climate, the chances of a killing freeze are much greater, though the corm of some varieties would survive. If you are able to add big amounts of insulation somehow (some people have put wire cages around the pseudostem and filled the cage with leaves while another hobbyist from Utah built foam boxes around his plants and heated the enclosure with a light bulb), you might be able to do it but you would probably be better off with some type of Orinoco.
I'll soon post a photo of one of my California Gold (probably a form of Dwarf Orinoco) that is beginning to flower. It threw out maybe four leaves before the flower bud emerged so it will be a bit hard for the bunch to develop properly. Still, I had another unknown variety that flowered back in March or so and has no leaves but is looking fairly good.
Illia
06-04-2012, 01:05 AM
Oh, I'm aware of the long road ahead, but I feel it is worth it. The Bananas are grown in an unheated greenhouse, so temps inside usually fall no less than 28 degrees. I plan to move the bananas out and overwinter them in a separate building though, so, I'm aware that in doing so I will certainly lengthen my growing out to a few years. My concern is running into the end of the year long before the fruit are even mature enough to cut down.
Already growing D. Orinoco.
harveyc
06-04-2012, 02:05 AM
Oh, I'm aware of the long road ahead, but I feel it is worth it. The Bananas are grown in an unheated greenhouse, so temps inside usually fall no less than 28 degrees. I plan to move the bananas out and overwinter them in a separate building though, so, I'm aware that in doing so I will certainly lengthen my growing out to a few years. My concern is running into the end of the year long before the fruit are even mature enough to cut down.
Already growing D. Orinoco.
Then I think it's worth a shot since their growing environment is better than zone 8.
Have you fruited your Dwarf Orinoco?
harveyc
06-04-2012, 02:07 AM
By the way, as a point of reference, my 3' tall Psiang Klotek withstood 35 nights of frost and one night down to 22F (briefly) which is a lot worse than what yours would be facing in your unheated greenhouse.
Illia
06-04-2012, 09:49 AM
Not yet, I just got it this year. The first fruit I'm expecting will be late winter/next spring from my Velutinas. Those I'm going to bring indoors to grow all winter, as they're small enough.
Kostas
06-04-2012, 11:08 AM
The genome of BSV is integrated in the genome of Mysore subgroup cultivars so they dont need to be infected from another plant,they already have it but in an inactive form that cannot be transmitted to other plants nor does it cause any harm to the banana. Under certain circumstances though,these integrated BSV sequences can be activated and the virus start expressing itself. From then on,the virus can be transmitted and it is affecting the health of the plant negatively, with streaked leafs meristem death,failure to flower or smaller bunches. Once activated,the virus rarely goes back to inactive form and the plant should be considered as infected from then on. There is no cure other than a few treatments developed to treat this virus in tissue culture so the plant should ideally be killed and disposed of to avoid the risk of spreading the disease through mealy bugs.
Fortunately,most plants never express the virus and never become infectious but its not too rare for a ''Mysore'' to develop BSV either. Pisang Ceylon is supposed to never express BSV and Pisang Klotek has so far a clean history among the members growing it. They are all very attractively colored,more so than other bananas and i have found them to be more leaf hardy than most varieties. I dont know about pseudostem hardiness though relating to other cultivars.
Illia
06-04-2012, 11:54 AM
So, is there anyone out there that can shed some light on how long it takes either to ripen? I know plenty people here grow Mysore.
momoese
06-04-2012, 01:49 PM
So, is there anyone out there that can shed some light on how long it takes either to ripen? I know plenty people here grow Mysore.
http://www.bananas.org/f2/mysore-pisang-klotek-worth-15856.html#post196691
emegar
06-04-2012, 02:50 PM
Harvey,
I'm curious to know more about your Pisang Klotek and the kind of winter you describe it surviving. Did you give it any protection? Did the pseudostem start off the winter at 3 feet? I ask because I planted one I purchased from Jon which was about that height last fall, and it almost immediately rotted to the ground under much warmer conditions than those you describe. About half the corm survived the winter, and it has just now resprouted for me. I'm not sure why it suffered such a setback here in 10a.
James
momoese
06-04-2012, 04:15 PM
It happens James. I've been nursing a dwarf red for 2 years that has rotted several times. It's always been in a container with soil that's more perlite than anything else so it's really baffling to me.
Darkman
06-04-2012, 04:28 PM
My PK survived the winter in an unheated insulated pool house that I just left the lights on on cold nights. It really isn't growing very well this year still in a pot. My DR under the same conditions were just a corm when they were potted and placed in the room.They sprouted in the room and are growing nicely now that they are outside but still in the pot.
Illia
06-04-2012, 05:14 PM
http://www.bananas.org/f2/mysore-pisang-klotek-worth-15856.html#post196691
I saw that, replied to it too with thanks, I'm now asking if anyone else can also confirm it for me. I know bananas can vary a little, so I hope I'm as lucky as you.
momoese
06-04-2012, 05:53 PM
It sounds like you should have no problem in your greenhouse. My PK's survived the low 30's and Harvey and others have shown some cold tolerance as well. I think the longest any bunch has taken to ripen on the plant in my garden was 7 months and that was a Jamaican Red. It's a great looking and tasting banana so I say go for it!
harveyc
09-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Harvey,
I'm curious to know more about your Pisang Klotek and the kind of winter you describe it surviving. Did you give it any protection? Did the pseudostem start off the winter at 3 feet? I ask because I planted one I purchased from Jon which was about that height last fall, and it almost immediately rotted to the ground under much warmer conditions than those you describe. About half the corm survived the winter, and it has just now resprouted for me. I'm not sure why it suffered such a setback here in 10a.
James
emegar, sorry for missing your question directed towards me a few months ago. It's already been addressed somewhat by momoese (rot causes). My PK had zero protection. The pseudostem was maybe about 3" in diameter. It had been planted in the ground in the spring and got a slow start and not the best of care so it didn't grow a lot but was pretty well established when winter came last year. Although I mix compost into my heavy soil when planting it doesn't seem to be enough and I need to install a more effective automatic irrigation system. I've done what I have time for and my results are okay with a total of 7 bunches of fruit this year, though some are too late to mature and one is a basjoo.
venturabananas
09-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Emegar, I had exactly the same experience with a couple of different banana varieties of which I planted newly separated pups in autumn. In short, don't do it, at least in So Cal. It is not consistently warm enough for the plants to grow fast enough to outpace root and corm rot during the cool, wet winter. Established Pisang Klotek and Pisang Ceylon plants (e.g., planted as pups in late spring or early summer) have no problem surviving winter here.
venturabananas
09-26-2012, 10:21 AM
I think the longest any bunch has taken to ripen on the plant in my garden was 7 months and that was a Jamaican Red.
Showoff. :ha:
You get more warmth than me, even though we're only about 60 miles apart. I have a bunch of Orinoco that have been hanging for 11 months and still haven't ripened! They have ripened if I cut them off the plant, but the rest I've left hanging are still green. Ridiculous!
wait .so the plant can just hang a bunch forever?
in other words
Can my Mysore just hold the fruit and it never ripen?
I haven't studied excessive hanging. Do the fingers continue to fill?
Maybe there was mention in some FHIA pdfs.. .#3 I think they mentioned delayed harvesting over 4 months.
What is the limit? Squirrel?
venturabananas
09-26-2012, 12:21 PM
wait .so the plant can just hang a bunch forever?
in other words
Can my Mysore just hold the fruit and it never ripen?
I haven't studied excessive hanging. Do the fingers continue to fill?
Maybe there was mention in some FHIA pdfs.. .#3 I think they mentioned delayed harvesting over 4 months.
What is the limit? Squirrel?
No, a plant can't hang a bunch forever. And I think they will always ripen even if they never fill, though they might just rot before ripening if conditions are bad enough (e.g., too cold). The bananas I'm talking about have filled, i.e., they are mature and harvestable, they just haven't yet ripened "on the vine".
Growth and fruit maturity in bananas is really driven by proper, warm temperatures. The plant needs to accumulate enough "degree days". For example, a banana plant in Miami FL would accumulate something like 3 times more degrees days per year than would one in Ventura CA. So, banana plants grow and mature fruit much faster in Miami than Ventura.
Darkman
09-27-2012, 07:10 PM
...I have a bunch of Orinoco that have been hanging for 11 months and still haven't ripened! They have ripened if I cut them off the plant, but the rest I've left hanging are still green. Ridiculous!
I don't understand that. My Orinoco ripen in four months from bloom in my 8b/9a garden. Your a 10.
What gives?
I have already harvested three bunches this year.
momoese
09-27-2012, 08:38 PM
I don't understand that. My Orinoco ripen in four months from bloom in my 8b/9a garden. Your a 10.
What gives?
I have already harvested three bunches this year.
I think it has something to do with sunlight, time of year (weather) when it blooms, humidity and other factors. I have an HA bunch that's been hanging forever due to blooming at the wrong time of year, and being neglected food and water wise. Lots of pups were removed from it as well so some root damage was surely done in the process.
So many factors to consider!
sunfish
09-27-2012, 08:55 PM
I don't understand that. My Orinoco ripen in four months from bloom in my 8b/9a garden. Your a 10.
What gives?
I have already harvested three bunches this year.
How hot was it in your zone 8 for those 4 months ?
venturabananas
09-27-2012, 09:33 PM
I don't understand that. My Orinoco ripen in four months from bloom in my 8b/9a garden. Your a 10.
What gives?
Dude, simple physiology and climate differences. :08: What was the average daily temperature for you since May? A lot higher than mine. Bananas need heat to grow and mature and I don't get much of it. At your house, summer is like the tropics. At my house it isn't like the tropics during summer. Like a friend of mine once said, "the coldest winter I ever had was a summer in Ventura!" :ha: Those zone numbers are mostly based on minimum annual temperatures, not maximum annual temperatures.
Abnshrek
09-27-2012, 09:50 PM
I 2nd that motion I got stuck in Carlsbad / oceanside not far from the beach for 90days during the summer, and froze compared to being in Central Texas.
Darkman
09-28-2012, 07:30 AM
How hot was it in your zone 8 for those 4 months ?
For 2012
June Avg low 73 hi 88
July Avg low 76 hi 90
Aug Avg low 75 hi 89
Sept Avg low 71 hi 87
venturabananas
09-28-2012, 10:23 AM
For 2012
June Avg low 73 hi 88
July Avg low 76 hi 90
Aug Avg low 75 hi 89
Sept Avg low 71 hi 87
My bananas wish they had your summer weather Darkman!
Here's what we've had for 2012 at the closest weather station (which is a bit warmer than my house):
avg. low; avg. high; avg. temp.:
May 52 69 61
June 56 71 64
July 57 72 64
Aug 60 78 69
You're averaging about 15-20 degrees higher than me. The fastest banana growth and bunch ripening happens in the 80's -- which is about your daily average for the summer months. As you can see, my daily average is in the 60's. Put that way, I should just be happy I ever get ripe bananas at my house! :ha: Even if it takes a year to ripen a bunch.
Abnshrek
09-28-2012, 11:21 AM
Dang Mark my April average is better than that.. Ave Low 54F Ave High 77F
March is close I suppose Ave Low is 45F w/ a Ave High of 70F.. Now If I could get rid of my freezes I'd be great. I say they need to miss me and go east.. :^)
Darkman
09-29-2012, 09:47 PM
Wow! Your zone 10 with an asteric* LOL
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