View Full Version : Favorite fruiting mulberry cultivars
barnetmill
04-04-2012, 01:27 PM
My mulberry trees are starting ripen their fruit and I wondered what kind of mulberry trees and fruit do any the people here like? What cultivars do the best for you and what pests and diseases are issues?
raygrogan
04-04-2012, 07:57 PM
I know there are all sorts of exotic mulberries, mostly in more temperate climes, but the one I grow and like is IE, Illinois Everbearing. It has a big tasty fruit for a long season, and no trouble except trimming back to size most years. They go nuts. This is in Iowa.
barnetmill
04-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I know there are all sorts of exotic mulberries, mostly in more temperate climes, but the one I grow and like is IE, Illinois Everbearing. It has a big tasty fruit for a long season, and no trouble except trimming back to size most years. They go nuts. This is in Iowa.I have what were sold as IL everbearing. They really took off growing and then I decided to transplant them some where else and finally this year there are some berries starting out on them. These trees seem to send out long shallow, yellow roots that can be quite large seeking out nutrition. Glad to know that the IL everbearing is a good cultivar.
Darkman
04-04-2012, 09:16 PM
There used to be a mulberry tree on the lot I bought two years ago. That was many years ago and the neighborhood kids would bend the branches down till they broke. Sometime ago it dissappeared. I guess the kids worried it to death.
Richard
04-05-2012, 04:41 PM
Phil's White
barnetmill
04-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Phil's White
I wonder if it is anything like this cultivar:
KING WHITE PAKISTAN (SHAHTOOT) Just like the Pakistan, the Shahtoot has long berries - but they are white! If you like super sweet this is the mulberry for you. Zones 9-10.
SHAHTOOT which in Farsi means king berry is a word used on some parts of the indian continent for mulberry.
I year so ago I planted one that died during a drought when I was very busy. I want to go for ripe white berries since the birds my not be so attracted to them as they might for darker berries.
Richard
04-06-2012, 01:02 AM
Here's an article I wrote 3 years ago about Mulberries:
Morus The Mulberry (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/column/PTP_2009_11_Morus.htm)
barnetmill
04-06-2012, 07:29 AM
Great article
Here's an article I wrote 3 years ago about Mulberries:
Morus The Mulberry (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/column/PTP_2009_11_Morus.htm)
I will have to find out more about
Maclura tricuspidata, the “Chinese Mulberry” or “Che” (also Cudrang, Zhe). This moderate size tree produces a light red fruit about the size of a ping-pong ball
Worm_Farmer
04-06-2012, 08:15 AM
I have one, but all I know about it is that it was labeled R. Mulberry. I don't know how to ID. But it grows faster then weeds! It went from a cutting to full tree in 1 year. I would compare its growth rate to Papaya.
venturabananas
04-06-2012, 11:18 AM
I have Dwarf Black Beauty, a Morus nigra cultivar. It makes very tasty fruit and if you have limited space like I do, it has the advantage of staying small. It suffered a bit last year with some fungal disease of the foliage, which is a common problem for lots of my plants (e.g., stone fruit) in my damp, coastal climate. But it looks just fine now, just coming out of dormancy and putting out fruit.
Richard
04-06-2012, 12:24 PM
In the article, I left out Morus rubra (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?24621) (Red Mulberry) which is native to eastern Canada and the U.S., roughly from Ontario down through eastern Texas and over to the Atlantic Ocean. The fruit is red. Historically in the U.S. it was an important food source for both birds and people. Here in southern California it is less popular than Morus alba -- mainly because it grows to an enormous size in our more temperate climate.
barnetmill
04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
In the article, I left out Morus rubra (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?24621) (Red Mulberry) which is native to eastern Canada and the U.S., roughly from Ontario down through eastern Texas and over to the Atlantic Ocean. The fruit is red. Historically in the U.S. it was an important food source for both birds and people. Here in southern California it is less popular than Morus alba -- mainly because it grows to an enormous size in our more temperate climate.
It is my understanding that many of the wild mulberry trees are hybrids M. rubra to either M. alba or M. nigra. Hybrids these days of various cultivars are occuring. Apparently besides the mulberries, the flowering pears are crossing with commercial pears and are found feral in places east of the Mississippi.
I would like to get a lot of different mulberrys going. For me it is the first fruit of season to rippen. Some berries are almost as early. It is claimed that some mulberries have harmful affects on children, but then I do not have any so it is not an issue for me.
sunfish
04-06-2012, 03:04 PM
Mr. Smarty Plants - Toxic effect of mulberry fruits and sap (http://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=4480)
Darkman
04-06-2012, 10:37 PM
I have Dwarf Black Beauty, a Morus nigra cultivar. It makes very tasty fruit and if you have limited space like I do, it has the advantage of staying small.
This sounds like the mulberry for me. I am very much space challenged. Will the mulberry grow and fruit as an understory tree?
Is Dwarf Black Beauty naturally small or are there dwarfing rootstocks available for them?
venturabananas
04-06-2012, 10:51 PM
This sounds like the mulberry for me. I am very much space challenged. Will the mulberry grow and fruit as an understory tree?
Is Dwarf Black Beauty naturally small or are there dwarfing rootstocks available for them?
I think it is naturally small, but if I recall correctly, mine appears to be grafted (it's too dark to check now). Here's a good link:
L.E. Cooke Company - Persian & Black Beauty Fruiting Mulberries (http://www.lecooke.com/cms/le-cooke-blog/Persian-Black-Beauty-Fruiting-Mulberries.html)
venturabananas
04-07-2012, 02:12 PM
This sounds like the mulberry for me. I am very much space challenged. Will the mulberry grow and fruit as an understory tree
Not sure how it would do as understory. I'm under the impression that it needs full sun, but I could be wrong.
barnetmill
04-08-2012, 10:27 PM
How compatible are the red, white, and black mulberry species for interspecific grafting. I ask because I have a very nice looking mulberry that is growing into a nicely sized tree that will likely be very large. It is derived from a cutting of an old tree from either milton or bagdad, FL. Bagdad, FL an old lumber port about IIRC 1840 had a silk industry and I assume that some trees were planted for it. But I do not believe that mulberry trees live that long. Anyway I was hoping for decent berries on this thriving tree. The berries are tiny and I would like to graft the tree over to something else.
So are mulberry trees compatible with other mulberry species relative to grafting?
Richard
04-09-2012, 03:39 PM
How compatible are the red, white, and black mulberry species for interspecific grafting. ... ?
Sounds like a fun experiment. True Mulberries (Morus) are vigorous plants so its worth a try. For nursery stock, I have cultivars grafted on seedlings of the same species.
This recommendation is for an established tree at least 6' high and wide:
Consider feeding your Mulberry tree "net 1 pound" of Potash over the active growing season this year and see if it improves of the size and quality of the fruit. For example: Potassium sulfate is usually 50% potash (0-0-50) by weight, so 2 pounds of K2SO4 will supply the tree with "net 1 pound". I would sprinkle about 1/2 pound around the canopy drip line each month for the next 4 months.
barnetmill
04-09-2012, 04:12 PM
Sounds like a fun experiment. True Mulberries (Morus) are vigorous plants so its worth a try. For nursery stock, I have cultivars grafted on seedlings of the same species.
This recommendation is for an established tree at least 6' high and wide:
Consider feeding your Mulberry tree "net 1 pound" of Potash over the active growing season this year and see if it improves of the size and quality of the fruit. For example: Potassium sulfate is usually 50% potash (0-0-50) by weight, so 2 pounds of K2SO4 will supply the tree with "net 1 pound". I would sprinkle about 1/2 pound around the canopy drip line each month for the next 4 months.
This tree trunk is about 5-6" in diamter now and has a very good natural shape. It is over 15 feet tall. It only briefly has berries that are very small. I have another tree near by that is shaded that bears much larger berries for a longer period of time. Both trees are near the septic trank and field so nutrition is probably not an issue. But it is already some what late to try the potash since the fruiting almost over for this tree. I had hoped as it got bigger it would have bigger berries. It is now a pretty good sized tree. I will assume that it is a white mulberry and will look for white grafting wood.
Using the same species is a good tip.
Richard
04-09-2012, 04:46 PM
This tree trunk is about 5-6" in diamter now and has a very good natural shape. It is over 15 feet tall. It only briefly has berries that are very small. I have another tree near by that is shaded that bears much larger berries for a longer period of time.
Could be different hybrid, species, or cultivar.
Both trees are near the septic trank and field so nutrition is probably not an issue.
I disagree. The distribution of minerals from septic is not very appropriate for deciduous fruit trees. In particular it is very low in Potash.
But it is already some what late to try the potash since the fruiting almost over for this tree.
This is a misconception. We feed the tree this year for next year's crop. Once the tree starts uptaking the Potash, it will take at least 3 months for processes in the roots to manufacture basic compounds to produce enzymes and carbohydrates. These will be utilized on an as needed basis. The processes for fruit production won't begin until winter begins.
barnetmill
04-09-2012, 10:50 PM
Re: Grafting Re: Favorite fruiting mulberry cultivars
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
I have another tree near by that is shaded that bears much larger berries for a longer period of time.
Could be different hybrid, species, or cultivar.
Yes they are different and that is the point the tree in question is not making useful fruit and grafting to something would be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
Both trees are near the septic tank and field so nutrition is probably not an issue.
I disagree. The distribution of minerals from septic is not very appropriate for deciduous fruit trees. In particular it is very low in Potash.
I do not know enough and will look into potash. I do know that trees near my septic tank even if not ideal for nutrition do grow better than anywhere else on the property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
But it is already some what late to try the potash since the fruiting almost over for this tree.
This is a misconception. We feed the tree this year for next year's crop. Once the tree starts uptaking the Potash, it will take at least 3 months for processes in the roots to manufacture basic compounds to produce enzymes and carbohydrates. These will be utilized on an as needed basis. The processes for fruit production won't begin until winter begins.
You are correct about a yrs advance being important, but I am not happy waiting another year for what seems to be a looser. Many tree produce well one yr and do little the nx yr. Out of 4 mulberry trees that are currently producing this is the poorest and seems not a good tree to keep. It seems to be the sulfur that you believe to most important and I will certainly look into that. There must be some sulfur in the septic tank since it is contained in many proteins that are consumed and excreted. I have used wood ashes on most of my trees, but not this one. Wood ash probably does not have too much sulfur in it.
Thanks very much for your insightful advice.
Richard
04-10-2012, 01:31 PM
It seems to be the sulfur that you believe to most important
Nope, its the potash.
Wood ash is a source of potash but very low concentration. Potassium sulfate is a common, inexpensive supplement. For wood ash, you'll need to put down 20 lbs per tree over the course of a year to obtain "net 1 pound" of potash, but with potassium sulfate you'll only need 2 lbs per tree over the course of a year.
Certainly your plants near the septic will grow better than those without nutrient supply -- mainly due to the nitrogen sources from the septic. Fruit quality comes from availability of potash in the prior seasons. Further, too much potash can be toxic to plants. For a mature tree that is at least 6 feet high and wide, "net 1 pound" of potash per year is about right.
Lastly I understand your interest in removing/grafting-over the mulberry you are dissatisfied with. Go for it. My recent comments in this thread have been to point out that (a) with the exception of white fruit, color and size of fruit is usually not an indication of species in Mulberries and (b) with proper nutrition you will realize the actual size and quality of fruit a tree is capable of.
barnetmill
04-10-2012, 03:52 PM
Thanks Richard for the info. I just so happen to have a couple of gallon jugs of sand that are mixed with NaSO4. I will try it on some trees that have never grown a bit which are a pecan and a walnut. I thought it was zinc deficiency that was the cause, but the worst the sulfate would do would be to kill them and since they have not grown in several years there is nothing to lose on them if they die from my treatment. My past philosophy due to how busy I have been is to plant with minimal care and if it does not do well plant something else. I have had some successes at this. But I have noted that my neighbors in their small back yards that are for lawn growing have trees that grow at twice as fast as mine, so a little more care would be appreciated by my plants. Next yr when I retire I will spend more time trying to make everything survive and eventually take a master gardening course.
Richard
04-10-2012, 04:05 PM
Thanks Richard for the info. I just so happen to have a couple of gallon jugs of sand that are mixed with NaSO4.
Sodium Sulfate (NaSO4) is a death sentence to most plants and the soil. Most fertilizer manufacturers go to great pains to keep sodium out of their products. If you apply it, it might take a few to several years of leaching before anything grows there again.
Darkman
04-10-2012, 07:52 PM
Next yr when I retire I will spend more time trying to make everything survive and eventually take a master gardening course.
Barnetmill,
I'll be retired then too and I believe that between the two us we can overcome these problems If they can be overcome. I would suggest you don't get to drastic on anthing till you have the luxury of TIME to fix it.
barnetmill
04-10-2012, 09:49 PM
Sodium Sulfate (NaSO4) is a death sentence to most plants and the soil. Most fertilizer manufacturers go to great pains to keep sodium out of their products. If you apply it, it might take a few to several years of leaching before anything grows there again.
I have do have some other things that I would really like to kill in some areas like popcorn trees and other invasives that do not die readily. I probably need to get sapling puller for them. If my planted trees grew as well as the wild volunteers I would really be very happy. Many years ago I was out west and you could see where standing runoff water from irrigation would raise alkali salts from below and poison low lying areas. Salt or NaCl has been used for years by invading forces to poison the soil. So you are saying perhaps K2SO4 is ok and Na2SO4 is bad? We get 60 inches of rain here a year so maybe it would stay around and maybe it would not. I will have to look this up for sure.
Thanks for the warning.
Richard
04-10-2012, 11:02 PM
Most salts are acid forming. Plants feed on a variety of water-soluble minerals, which is another name for salts. Some common salts (such as NaCl, aka table salt) are toxic to plants. Plants do not feed on plant material. It must be broken down by micro-organisms and acidic compounds in the soil into water-soluble minerals or elemental carbon, nitrogen for uptake by plants.
barnetmill
04-10-2012, 11:24 PM
Most salts are acid forming. Plants feed on a variety of water-soluble minerals, which is another name for salts. Some common salts (such as NaCl, aka table salt) are toxic to plants. Plants do not feed on plant material. It must be broken down by micro-organisms and acidic compounds in the soil into water-soluble minerals or elemental carbon, nitrogen for uptake by plants.
The soil in my area is said be acidic. Since I am working on a regular basis with a pH meter for testing of rainwater, I maybe should look up the procedure for testing soil to see what my pH is. Blue berries which like acidic soil grow wild throughout our area. I planted some commercial varieties and as long as they are weeded they grow well. The older settlers of my region area would put sulfur compounds about their blueberries to increase the yield and from what I understand blueberries like acidic conditions. I understand that they are related to cranberries which naturally grow in bogs. I guess we got a little away from mulberries but I have learned lot about what I do not know.
Thanks very much.
lkailburn
04-11-2012, 09:37 AM
Glad someone mentioned Illinois Everbearing. The local nursery had one in stock so i grabbed it! I'm currently rooting some cuttings of my grandfather's mulberry tree. It's just a seedling tree, now 30+ years old and he said it's rubbish compared to good varierties. The berries are small and not as sweet, more sweet-tart but i think it's absolutely delicious!!!!
-Luke
venturabananas
04-11-2012, 11:17 AM
The Pakistani mulberry that I sampled at Jon's house (Pitangodiego) was very tasty, with huge fruit, and a nice looking tree.
bananaT
04-13-2012, 12:32 AM
I have two that I really like.
The White Pakistan. Wonderful fruit. I don't really like berries that are too tart, so this works nicely. Plus the birds don't bother them. The plants themselves are nice looking. And I haven't had any pest problems with them either.
It breaks very early though, so early as to do it before the knew year if it gets cold, than warms up. its not as cold tolerant too. Very much worth it.
The other is the Paper mulberry, Brosonetia papiriferia (if that's spet right). Its not related to these mulberries we're talking about but...
I have a male and female tree, so if we get a very cold winter, like '10 and '11, it will fruit!
The male is beyond vigorous. It takes over every inch it can, by suckers and branches growing 15 feet tall a year.
The female is very poor performer here in Florida though.
But the fruit is a rare prize. They're like little redish pom-poms, you just eat the outside of it. Very tasty. Something unique....
barnetmill
04-13-2012, 01:43 PM
I have two that I really like.
The White Pakistan. Wonderful fruit. I don't really like berries that are too tart, so this works nicely. Plus the birds don't bother them. The plants themselves are nice looking. And I haven't had any pest problems with them either.
It breaks very early though, so early as to do it before the knew year if it gets cold, than warms up. its not as cold tolerant too. Very much worth it.
The other is the Paper mulberry, Brosonetia papiriferia (if that's spet right). Its not related to these mulberries we're talking about but...
I have a male and female tree, so if we get a very cold winter, like '10 and '11, it will fruit!
The male is beyond vigorous. It takes over every inch it can, by suckers and branches growing 15 feet tall a year.
The female is very poor performer here in Florida though.
But the fruit is a rare prize. They're like little redish pom-poms, you just eat the outside of it. Very tasty. Something unique....
according to wki Paper Mulberry (Broussonetia papyrifera, syn. Morus papyrifera L.) is a tree in the family Moraceae, native to eastern Asia. Other names include Dak, Halibun
So it is related. My question for those out there is could it cross pollinate with our more common mulberries and not require a male of the same species? Your local in lakeland is a little colder than me. If I would go 30 miles north then once in a while we could reach 10 F also.
bananaT
04-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Well it is different enough to afford its own genus. Im not sure when it was put there.
Ive read somewhere its more related to bread fruit, and Chinese oranges than actual mulberries.
The males flower each year, and in years past, without male Morus available, have not pollinated my female mulberries that need pollination.
Richard
04-13-2012, 05:02 PM
A more definitive source for taxonomy of plants, especially in terms of genetic relationships (tribes) is:
Taxonomy Query for GRIN Species Records (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxgenform.pl?language=en)
Although it is not complete in terms of exotics and some plants only known in east Asia, it is constantly being updated. Credible suggestions are taken seriously. I recommend it to everyone.
The true Mulberries are in genus Morus (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/splist.pl?7821) which is a group of species in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412).
As bananaT points out, the "Paper Mulberry" Broussonetia papyrifera is also in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412). The original classification in Morus was made in 1753 but updated by a taxonomist abbreviated "Vent." for which I have no reference. The plant is grown for fiber, not fruit. Here is an interesting article on the plant found in the references on the GRIN page: Broussonetia papyrifera (paper mulberry) (http://www.agroforestry.net/tti/Broussonetia-papermulb.pdf). The plant is part of the germplasm collection at the U.S. Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=10134).
It would be unusual if any of the Morus species could pollenize a Broussonetia species, and stranger still for B. papyrifera since it is dioecious. If successful, the resulting seeds could grow interesting hybrids.
venturabananas
04-13-2012, 05:23 PM
As venturabananas points out, the "Paper Mulberry" Broussonetia papyrifera is also in the genetic tribe...
Not me, I think that was BananaT.
barnetmill
04-13-2012, 11:11 PM
A more definitive source for taxonomy of plants, especially in terms of genetic relationships (tribes) is:
Taxonomy Query for GRIN Species Records (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxgenform.pl?language=en)
Although it is not complete in terms of exotics and some plants only known in east Asia, it is constantly being updated. Credible suggestions are taken seriously. I recommend it to everyone.
The true Mulberries are in genus Morus (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/splist.pl?7821) which is a group of species in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412).
As bananaT points out, the "Paper Mulberry" Broussonetia papyrifera is also in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412). The original classification in Morus was made in 1753 but updated by a taxonomist abbreviated "Vent." for which I have no reference. The plant is grown for fiber, not fruit. Here is an interesting article on the plant found in the references on the GRIN page: Broussonetia papyrifera (paper mulberry) (http://www.agroforestry.net/tti/Broussonetia-papermulb.pdf). The plant is part of the germplasm collection at the U.S. Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=10134).
It would be unusual if any of the Morus species could pollenize a Broussonetia species, and stranger still for B. papyrifera since it is dioecious. If successful, the resulting seeds could grow interesting hybrids.
This is one the internet listings that I use: Welcome to the PLANTS Database | USDA PLANTS (http://plants.usda.gov/java/).
I was assigned to do some data base entry relative plants and to check the correctness of spellings I use this,
Richard
04-14-2012, 10:59 AM
This is one the internet listings that I use: Welcome to the PLANTS Database | USDA PLANTS (http://plants.usda.gov/java/).
I was assigned to do some data base entry relative plants and to check the correctness of spellings I use this,
Yes, it is built on top of the GRIN database and integrates geographical information -- also narrowing the results to North America.
bananaT
04-14-2012, 12:29 PM
The true Mulberries are in genus Morus (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/splist.pl?7821) which is a group of species in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412).
As bananaT points out, the "Paper Mulberry" Broussonetia papyrifera is also in the genetic tribe Moreae (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/gnlist.pl?2412). The original classification in Morus was made in 1753 but updated by a taxonomist abbreviated "Vent." for which I have no reference. The plant is grown for fiber, not fruit. Here is an interesting article on the plant found in the references on the GRIN page: Broussonetia papyrifera (paper mulberry) (http://www.agroforestry.net/tti/Broussonetia-papermulb.pdf). The plant is part of the germplasm collection at the U.S. Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=10134).
It would be unusual if any of the Morus species could pollenize a Broussonetia species, and stranger still for B. papyrifera since it is dioecious. If successful, the resulting seeds could grow interesting hybrids.
Yes, very interesting.
Richard, have you ever had the opportunity to try a paper mulberry fruit?
Probably not.
For local consumption they should be a crop that's grown.
They would definitely make interesting hybrids as well.
They flower at the same time, but it would be quite a task to grow out seeds to see if hybridization took place. I don't think it would happen naturally, too easily.
Richard
04-14-2012, 01:09 PM
Yes, very interesting.
Richard, have you ever had the opportunity to try a paper mulberry fruit?
Probably not.
For local consumption they should be a crop that's grown.
I'm not sure I've ever seen the plant, let alone taste the fruit. :2141:
They would definitely make interesting hybrids as well.
They flower at the same time, but it would be quite a task to grow out seeds to see if hybridization took place. I don't think it would happen naturally, too easily.
The research papers discussing cross-Genus hybridization that I've come across were mostly concerned with North American and/or European fruits in the Rosaceae family. In all cases hormones were utilized which I believe you'll need a license to purchase. An "end around" to that is to get involved with a breeder at a USDA or university sites and carry out the experiments at their location. If it works out, you get a plant and they get a publication.
sunfish
04-24-2012, 09:30 AM
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