View Full Version : Anyone else growing Meyer Lemons or Kumquats?
tommyg
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
I am a relatively new gardener. I started about three months ago and am still learning tons. I have gotten the Citrus "itch", ok that didn't sound good. And I was wondering who else is growing Citrus and what kinds, and if you could share some basic info or pics of your garden.
I have:
tangerine tree (9 inches tall)
Meyer lemon tree (10 inches tall, but bush form, with buds)
Nugami Kumquat tree (24 inches tall, has four fruit on them, waiting to ripen)
Small Navel orange variety (14 inches tall, with small buds)
Please share if you can and show the rest of us your varieties and how you're growing your plants. Anyone had fruits on their citrus plants already and tried eating them? I live in Massachusetts so anything that is somewhat hardy and can be grown indoors I am willing to try.
I will share pictures when I get home.
I have some on my blog: Sunroom Gardening (http://sunroomgardening.blogspot.com)
Thanks!
Richard
01-12-2012, 02:54 PM
I am growing every type of citrus. Here is a guide I wrote for gardeners:
Guide to Common Citrus (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/CommonCitrus.htm)
Keep in mind that citrus grow from seed do not produce fruit that is true-to-type. Seedlings on the other hand can make good root stock to graft a scion of the true variety onto.
harveyc
01-12-2012, 04:12 PM
Tommy, I'm growing a dozen or so citrus, mainly focusing on mandarins, some navels, etc. and a Nordman kumquat. There is a very good citrus forum at Citrus Growers Forum :: Index (http://citrus.forumup.org/index.php?mforum=citrus) with members from around the U.S. worth looking into.
Richard, I'm looking to start a debate but many citrus seedlings are true to type. Nucellar seedlings are what allow rootstock to be grown from seed but the same principle allows many edible varieties to be grown from seed, but it's often 7 years or more before they bear fruit.
tommyg
01-12-2012, 04:22 PM
thanks! but I like the bananas.org people lol
I'd like to hear the debate myself.
fmu65
01-12-2012, 04:53 PM
It is so funny you mention this. I got one from my work (a Meyer lemon) and it bloomed like crazy. I have been hand pollinating and babying it the best I can under grow lights. It gets liquid seaweed with iron (to lower the pH), along with other supplements and food. It dropped most of its fruit but here is what remains!
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=47559&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=47559&ppuser=11001)
I have had a couple of mealybugs show up, but I have been treating them with alcohol on q tips and wiping the leaves with room temp water afterwards.
tommyg
01-12-2012, 04:56 PM
that's awesome, hope mine will continue to grow. my buds are growing.
Richard
01-12-2012, 05:20 PM
Richard, I'm looking to start a debate but many citrus seedlings are true to type. Nucellar seedlings are what allow rootstock to be grown from seed but the same principle allows many edible varieties to be grown from seed, but it's often 7 years or more before they bear fruit.
You get the same genotype, but not the same phenotype -- which is of course what counts in citrus cultivars. To paraphrase: if you grow seed from a self-pollinated edible citrus, you will get edible fruit but not the cultivar that the breeder choose for propagation.
Richard
01-12-2012, 05:21 PM
... It gets liquid seaweed with iron (to lower the pH), along with other supplements and food. It dropped most of its fruit ...
Be sure to give it the proper balance of potash.
dekkard
01-12-2012, 06:32 PM
My wife says our Meyer Lemon tree produces the best lemonade in the history of the world. I am impressed at the size and juiciness of the fruit although I am allergic to it. It is pretty maintenance free for us in Z9b. Hope yours are a success.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 06:39 PM
A number of people on the site disagree with your claims Richard....myself being one of them.
Tom, I know you will have success with your citrus trees and there is never only one way of growing anything. You don't have to get technical about adding exact potash amounts either, to ensure your success. ;)
I've grown many citrus trees from seed...including kumquat, keylime, and lemon. I've even mailed some of my Kumquat seedlings to some garden pals in the US and they survived the trips. :goteam:
Something important if you're growing in pots is some good quality well-draining soil and a pot with good drainage holes. Having your citrus trees in soggy wet soil will be the death of them. :eek:
I found good sunlight and regular feedings were the key to success in growing citrus trees. Being an organic gardener I use DNF Fruiting & Blooming formula. You can use what you like though Tom, as gardeners have different preferences and that's ok. :)
Especially new gardeners...you learn so much more from just experimenting and trying things your way. The best garden advice I ever received was "STOP listening to other gardeners"!!! :ha:
Looking forward to seeing your pics, Tom. How exciting that you're growing a few different types.
: )
Richard
01-12-2012, 06:44 PM
A number of people on the site disagree with your claims Richard....myself being one of them.
That's ok. Feel free to discuss it with one of the geneticists at the UCR Citrus Research Center.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 06:59 PM
Of course this is always your typical response to scare and intimidate new gardeners into thinking that yours is the ONLY way of doing things. It is not, however.
I sure hope that new gardeners will continue to share their ideas and feel free to discuss how they might like to do things, even if it doesn't coincide with other people's ways...including my own. ;)
Frankly I find citrus trees ridiculously easy to grow, like many other fruits trees. Just add water, food, and sunlight and your success is practically in the bag! :D
: )
Richard
01-12-2012, 07:26 PM
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][B]Of course this is always your typical response to scare and intimidate new gardeners into thinking that yours is the ONLY way of doing things.
You apparently mis-understood my post. Please do not interpret a disagreement of fact as intimidation, insult, or insistence on one way of doing things -- none was intended.
Please chill out. There is no justification for adopting the persona of a Flame Warrior (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/) over the discussion here.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 07:34 PM
Sorry Richard but I never read your links because most of them are simply inaccurate.
I've witnessed you running many of Jarred's newcomers off the site, leaving them angry and frustrated. Too bad it goes on. :(
Anyway, I believe this thread is about citrus trees...another thing you're notorious for, hijacking other people's threads.
Sorry for the interrption, Tommy. Back to your topic...
: )
tommyg
01-12-2012, 07:39 PM
I have found one space in the room that gets more sunlight.
If you had a choice , sherry, would the citrus or bananas benefit more from that spot?
I ask also because my kumquat fruits are there and more sunlight might help them ripen
Thanks
Tom
Richard
01-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Sorry Richard but I never read your links because most of them are simply inaccurate.
I've witnessed you running many of Jarred's newcomers off the site, leaving them angry and frustrated. Too bad it goes on. :(
Anyway, I believe this thread is about citrus trees...another thing you're notorious for, hijacking other people's threads.
Sorry for the interrption, Tommy. Back to your topic...
This is completely uncivil and uncalled for. Please recuse yourself.
harveyc
01-12-2012, 07:43 PM
Richard, I've read otherwise quite a few times and know folks that have grown citrus from seeds and obtained the desired results. I have not personally spoken to any geneticists but there is quite a bit of scholarly work online. This isn't very detained but still sufficient, I think:
Hort 403 - Lecture 32 (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/tropical/lecture_32/lec_32.html)
Nucellar Embryony
Apomixis - development of an embryo without the fusion of male and female gametes.
Polyembryony - occurrence of more than one embryo in a seed.
Nucellar embryony - embryos form from nucellar tissue.
Nucellar embryony in citrus means that most embryos are vegetative not zygotic.
They are produced from nucellar tissue and are therefore clones of the mother tree.
Pollination is needed to trigger nucellar development.
Nucellar embryos begin development as soon as pollination occurs while zygotic embryos take four weeks to develop; thus, nucellar embryos crowd out the zygotic embryos.
There are various degrees of nucellar embryony.
Some cultivars produce only nucellar embryos, and some vary in the percentage of nucellar embryos.
Three citrus types produce monoembryonic and therefore zygotic seed
'Temple tangelo'
'Clementine' tangerine
Shaddock, Citrus grandis (pomelo)
There are some important implications of nucellar embryony.
Rootstocks such as 'Rough Lemon', 'Sour Orange', and P. trifoliata can be produced true-to-type from seed.
This is important for nurseries because virus is not transmitted through either nucellar or zygotic seed.
Thus, nurseries can produce virus-free, clonal rootstocks from seed.
Virus can be eliminated from infected clones.
However, because nucellar seedlings are juvenile it takes a long time to obtain productive clones.
These can then be propagated by budding from the indexed nucellar mother tree.
Breeding of citrus is made difficult because of the difficulty obtaining genetically variable populations.
Is there some reference online that you can give that relates to what you wrote above? I'd like to read it.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Oh yes Tom...the more sunlight you can provide, the better. ;) Warmth is a good thing too.
Soon, you'll be putting them outside! :goteam: Don't be surprised if growth is slower in the colder months. Things will pick up in spring when everything goes into vegetative growth.
: )
harveyc
01-12-2012, 07:45 PM
By the way, I tried to grow three "Sumo" seeds last year but they seemed to be albino seedlings and died. Only one sprout from each of the two seeds emerged.
tbaleno
01-12-2012, 07:49 PM
I have a meyer lemon in my house. The humidity is around 10 and it dropped all its leaves. I'm pretty much ignoring it in my basement to get it out of the light while the humidity is so low. I heard that lots of peoples trees loose their leaves over the winter because of the cold and drop in humidity. I'll have to see if it comes back to life in the summer.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 07:56 PM
I've heard of that too, Tom. Bet it does come back for you. ;)
: )
Richard
01-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Is there some reference online that you can give that relates to what you wrote above? I'd like to read it.
You'll have to visit/contact UCR yourself or speak with my neighbor.
All "citrus" are in the tribe Aurantieae, but many are not in the genus Citrus. Not all Aurantieae are capable of nucellar embryony.
For a layperson to distinguish embryonic seed types in a store-bought fruit is problematic at best, and assumes a lot about the pollination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollination) of that individual fruit. For anyone to obtain seeds from a seedless variety is intractable.
In cases where nucellar seeds are used for propagation, the growers always go back to the same mother plant to avoid phenotype drift.
Personally, I think it is cheaper in terms of time and labor to purchase a known citrus cultivar from an online seller like Four Winds Growers (http://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/our-citrus-trees.html) than to try to raise a home fruit plant from seed. On the otherhand, if the goal is just to have fun, then go for it!
harveyc
01-12-2012, 08:22 PM
I know some folks do it for fun and other times because the don't have access to budwood. Seedless citrus sometimes have a few seeds such as the Sumo (Dekopan) fruit I got last year. I hope to get budwood of Dekopan in maybe a year if it becomes available as planned but trying the seeds was a fun attempt in the meantime.
Richard
01-12-2012, 08:34 PM
For those of us who grew up yearly tasting fruits from the mother plants in Rubidoux, Redlands, and Exeter -- there can be noticeable taste differences between "the" cultivar and seedlings, along with nth-generation grafts. My aunt in particular would give us all a serious scolding! Of course she was Howard Frost's niece.
MediaHound
01-12-2012, 09:19 PM
Fighters to your corners please.
tommyg
01-12-2012, 11:32 PM
Hi tom. Wow thats low humidity. You should try some misting it has worked well for me.
But yes in a couple of months the weather will start improving.
The Hollyberry Lady
01-12-2012, 11:56 PM
Something really fun, is to sprout Kumquat seeds from fruits at the grocery store. Keylime too. :D Citrus seeds germinate better when they're sown fresh from the fruit and not allowed to dry out. Mine came up within 10 days. :goteam:
: )
harveyc
01-13-2012, 12:08 AM
What were you doing, Richard, that your aunt scolded you over?
Richard
01-13-2012, 12:32 AM
Something really fun, is to sprout Kumquat seeds from fruits at the grocery store. Keylime too. :D Citrus seeds germinate better when they're sown fresh from the fruit and not allowed to dry out. Mine came up within 10 days.
Yes, I agree. Keep in mind that Thornless Key Lime and Mexican Thornless are the same plant.
What were you doing, Richard, that your aunt scolded you over?
I think you misread that. I was referring to my aunt scolding anyone who claimed a citrus seedling was identical in taste to the parent. Of course, the basis for her comparisons were either the selected individual from Rubidoux or Exeter, or a grow-out of cuttings from those trees. I suspect the orchard docents at UCR would tell you the same. :)
fmu65
01-13-2012, 10:52 AM
I am giving it tomato food, as it is the only thing i have right now that is even close to appropriate, in addition to seaweed, big bloom, and mycorrhyzae. it is under grow lights and I most it occasionally with lukewarm water. Trying to take whatever help I can get and not "over baby" it at the same time.
Richard
01-13-2012, 12:51 PM
I am giving it tomato food, as it is the only thing i have right now that is even close to appropriate, in addition to seaweed, big bloom, and mycorrhyzae. it is under grow lights and I most it occasionally with lukewarm water. Trying to take whatever help I can get and not "over baby" it at the same time.
The tomato food is already has significant phosphate, I recommend you stop feeding it big bloom which just piles on more. The seaweed extract is a good choice: it functions as a plant hormone (gibberellic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibberellic_acid)) which promotes more activity in the mode the plant is currently in. The mycorrhizae should be applied to the soil where it will contact roots within 24 hours. High quantities of phosphates kill mycorrhizae, so there's another reason to stop feeding with big bloom. Otherwise, soil inoculated with microbes need not be inoculated again for several years.
Citrus perform well with N, P, K in the ratios of 3:1:2. For example, 9-3-6 and 28-8-18 have those proportions. To complement your tomato food and get near those ratios, I recommend you use equal parts tomato food and fish emulsion -- that is, for each quantity of tomato food you currently use, also add the same quantity of fish emulsion.
tommyg
01-13-2012, 12:57 PM
so i've been getting some chewing on my leaves, mainly near the middle and not on the edges. I put some flat beer and some vegetable oil near it as I hear that might kill the insect thats chewing it. Does anyone else know how to ge rid of bugs on meyer lemon trees? Its not aphids, or mites, it could be a caterpillar, or earwig or something else. I believe it came in the soil that it was shipped in. Please help me get rid of it with some suggestions.
Thanks,
T
Richard
01-13-2012, 05:19 PM
so i've been getting some chewing on my leaves, mainly near the middle and not on the edges. I put some flat beer and some vegetable oil near it as I hear that might kill the insect thats chewing it. Does anyone else know how to ge rid of bugs on meyer lemon trees? Its not aphids, or mites, it could be a caterpillar, or earwig or something else. I believe it came in the soil that it was shipped in. Please help me get rid of it with some suggestions.
Thanks,
T
If you are sure it is not spider mites, then get a bottle of either BT or Spinosad. Both of these are simply bacteria and bacteria-poop in a bottle. The bacteria attack soft-bodied insects and their larvae, and their excrement is toxic to their prey as well. Since you only have a few small plants, I'd recommend the ready-to-use type.
If you think mites might be a problem later on, then instead get a product that contains these 3 ingredients: (a) pyrethrin -- a plant extract from african chrysanthemums, (b) piperonyl butoxide -- distilled from sassafras extract, and (c) a surfactant such as aloe or neem oil. There are several brands with these compounds; for example the "Green Light" brand produces Neem II (http://www.greenlightco.com/products/neem-ii/) and Fruit Tree Spray (http://www.greenlightco.com/products/fruittreespray/).
tommyg
01-13-2012, 10:13 PM
The other night I could of sworn I saw something crawling in there. If I have the nerve I'll check tonight and catch it somehow and throw it outside. I'm pretty sure it came with the plant.
Jananas Bananas
01-13-2012, 10:28 PM
I have kumquats that I have grown from seed:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/JaNan16/Aerogarden/20120112058.jpg
And I have a good size bush of Meyers lemon in my garage for the winter.
I have blood orange
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/JaNan16/Aerogarden/20120112043.jpg
and red grapefruit I started from seed also:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/JaNan16/Aerogarden/20120112025.jpg
~JaNan
fmu65
01-14-2012, 10:22 AM
Well, the tomato food is an organic granular type (NPK- 7-5-3), so I felt a supplement of big bloom every other watering could help keep more constant levels of phosphate available to the plant since the tomato food will break down and become available much more slowly. Also, the actual NPK percentages are so low I was under the impression (also I have been told this by a fox farm rep) that the benefits are more in micronutrients than the NPK. It is interesting that you mention high levels will kill micorrhyzae. Is that because it affects the soil pH? Plus, all of the label instructions, regardless of company, recommend reinnoculation on a regular basis for their mycorrhyzae supplements. Is this just to sell more product?
The seaweed I apply for exactly the reasons you mention, but I have stayed away from fish emulsion because its NPK is a little high on the nitrogen side. Are there additional benefits aside from NPK?
Richard
01-14-2012, 01:19 PM
Well, the tomato food is an organic granular type (NPK- 7-5-3), so I felt a supplement of big bloom every other watering could help keep more constant levels of phosphate available to the plant since the tomato food will break down and become available much more slowly. Also, the actual NPK percentages are so low I was under the impression (also I have been told this by a fox farm rep) that the benefits are more in micronutrients than the NPK.
The NPK numbers are percentages by weight, so it is the ratios between the N, P, and K that matter when choosing a product for a plant. So for example, your 7-5-3 is equivalent in N-P-K to a formula that is 21-15-9 -- except that the latter is more concentrated.
By the way, in terms of tomato food 7-5-3 is a poor formulation because the ratio of potash to nitrogen is too low. A better choice is a formula with the potash level at about 1.5 times that of the nitrogen -- or use a potash supplement with the product you have.
But anyway, back to the topic of feeding your citrus. :)
Citrus benefit from N, P, K ratios of 3:1:2; i.e., 2/3 as much potash in comparison to nitrogen. Now your "tomato" fertilizer is surprisingly low in potash, so it was my error to recommend additional nitrogen via fish emulsion. However, more phosphate is definitely not needed.
It is interesting that you mention high levels will kill micorrhyzae. Is that because it affects the soil pH?
High concentrations of phosphate in soil are toxic to mycorrhizae. This is one reason why dosage is key in fertilizer applications. When people worry about a formula that is 10-30-10 being overall too "high", they have misunderstood. The reality is that it is equivalent in N-P-K to 1-3-1 -- just 10 times more concentrated. So if proper dosage is used the phosphate level in one is no more harmful than the other.
In your case the issue is that the 7-5-3 is already "out of balance" for citrus in terms of phosphate. Adding more via a bloom formula is a poor choice for your citrus and puts the soil biotics at risk.
Plus, all of the label instructions, regardless of company, recommend reinnoculation on a regular basis for their mycorrhyzae supplements. Is this just to sell more product?
In many cases -- yes. Now for annual plants -- if the plants and roots are removed at the end of the season from the soil then you may also be removing your mycorrhizae population. Typically some is left behind on root hairs. I suppose a sales person could argue that replacement is necessary because of possible death from phosphate concentrations -- but I've never heard the statement.
The seaweed I apply for exactly the reasons you mention, but I have stayed away from fish emulsion because its NPK is a little high on the nitrogen side. Are there additional benefits aside from NPK?
No. And I'll add that the public has been oversold on the concept of "additional benefits" from products. Certainly there are many benefits from having a healthy soil and I make great use of them. However, there is also such a thing as a soil that is too healthy -- to the point that the biotics in the soil are consuming and not passing on a significant amount of the nutrients being applied and due to increased populations, feeding on your plant root material as well. A common example is someone growing tomatoes in basically compost and having trouble with root nematodes. If instead the soil contained a reasonable amount of fine gravels and the nutrients were balanced in terms of secondaries and micros -- then the nematodes would not be thriving.
fmu65
01-15-2012, 09:53 AM
Thank you for the additional information. Quite a bit of my info comes from the labels and the product reps themselves (you should see the fox farm application schedules and the fact that they recommend two different types of mycorrhyzal supplements to be used together, with the same species of mycorryhzae). I try to do ad much research on my own as possible (I own quite a library of organic plant care books) to prove or disprove what they tell me. I have asked the rep specifically why anyone would need one over the other, or even both, and all I get are vague answers about maintaining levels of the organisms in the soil (not just for annuals) because they die off and must be replaced. Again, this seems like they are trying to sell product.
The tomato fertilizer is from Doctor Earth. The balance did seem strange to me, again, but I keep getting the same answers about "added benefits for fruiting plants". The same is said for the fox farm Big Bloom, which has percentages of 0.01-0.3-0.7. I am starting to feel a little jaded on these products now.
Anyway, because I am big on research, can you recommend any books that address growing citrus (especially in containers)? Thanks again for your help. My biggest fear with this meyer lemon is the lemons will get to a certain size and then just fall off, as I have had many people tell me happens with citrus in containers.
fmu65
01-15-2012, 10:12 AM
By the way, when I recommend to a person to get a fertilizer that is (for a general example) 1-3-1 as opposed to 10-30-10, it is usually to prevent the person from over fertilizing, as it seems many people lean towards in using the products. I just wish I had easy access to a citrus only, correctly balanced fertilizer. Even Dr. Earth's "fruit tree" formula (labelled for citrus) is out of balance based on your information at 7-4-2. I am not sure why all fertilizers these days are like this.
tommyg
01-15-2012, 10:49 PM
Today i repotted my meyer lemon tree to a smaller pot. I think it will do better there and i also mixed in some fresh soil.
Richard
01-15-2012, 11:03 PM
By the way, when I recommend to a person to get a fertilizer that is (for a general example) 1-3-1 as opposed to 10-30-10, it is usually to prevent the person from over fertilizing ...
That is a curious problem. When people make pancakes etc., they generally measure the ingredients. If they looked at the directions on the 10-30-10, they would likely find 1-teaspoon per gallon of water, whereas with the 1-3-1 it would be about 1/4 cup per plant. Either would deliver the same nutrient content, and neither would provide a risk of over-dosing.
tommyg
01-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Richard feel free to start your own thread on your topic. I would like to continue discussing kumquats and meyer lemons on this one.
Jananas your fruit plants are awesome. Im not skilled enough to grow from seed. Feel free to post more pics as they get bigger.
Im hoping my meyer lemon tree buds continue to grow well and open soon.
T
Richard
01-15-2012, 11:50 PM
Richard feel free to start your own thread on your topic. I would like to continue discussing kumquats and meyer lemons on this one.
Yes, we are all discussing containerized citrus here. The last post was regarding Lisa's (fmu65 (http://www.bananas.org/member-fmu65.html)) question on fertilizer concentrations. Her other question was:
Anyway, because I am big on research, can you recommend any books that address growing citrus (especially in containers)? Thanks again for your help. My biggest fear with this meyer lemon is the lemons will get to a certain size and then just fall off, as I have had many people tell me happens with citrus in containers.
For references, I would point you at a succession of textbooks and research papers. However, there is a course taught on Citrus at UCR which is available through extension. Our very own member here GoAngels (http://www.bananas.org/member-GoAngels.html) recently took this course so perhaps he can point you at the course materials.
The two main challenges in growing citrus and other fruiting trees indoors are: (1) supplying enough energy via light in the correct spectrum to the plant -- think of the leaves as solar panels, and (2) getting supplying enough potash in relation to nitrogen so that the plant can "service" the fruit.
For light you need between 55 watts/sq.ft. to 75 watts/sq.ft. in the 6500 Kelvin spectrum for a period greater than 7 hours per day. 9 hrs per day is sufficient. Hopefully you have some natural sunlight enveloping the plant and a very cheap light meter that measures watts (not lumens) can tell you what the contribution is. Then of course you need to make up the difference with supplemental lighting: the CF65K (compact fluorescent 6500 Kelvin) bulbs work well as do a bank of 4-foot 6500K fluorescent bulbs.
For nutrients, you would like the nitrogen (N) to potash (K) ratio to be about 1 N to 2/3 K, and the phosphate (P) to be the lowest. There are many fertilizer products in all shapes, types, and sizes from many suppliers that do this. These formulas are all examples: 3-1-2, 6-2-4, 9-3-6. If you walk into a big box store you'll likely see (among other things) an organic Citrus food that is 8-6-8 and an organic Palm food that is 8-4-8. Well, the first one is a little high in P, but the second is a pretty good choice. It's a bit more K than the plant will use but at least it meets the plants need. In the water-solubles you will see 20-10-15 which again is not quite the 1 to 2/3 ratio, but pretty darn close.
http://www.bananas.org/f8/container-citrus-14677.html
fmu65
01-18-2012, 04:01 PM
I would like to also take responsibility for having taken us a bit off topic here and I apologize. In my citrus news- my Meyer lemons are still doing well and haven't dropped the fruit! Will post pics soon, and hope to see everyone else's pics as well!
harveyc
01-22-2012, 12:08 AM
By the way, I've heard a few times that the best-tasting kumquat is Meiwa. I haven't tried it yet and want to give it a try. Centennial tastes pretty good and is a very attractive variegated form.
Richard
01-22-2012, 12:18 AM
By the way, I've heard a few times that the best-tasting kumquat is Meiwa. I haven't tried it yet and want to give it a try. Centennial tastes pretty good and is a very attractive variegated form.
Among my customers, I have found that the American/European palette prefers Nagami, while the tropical Asian palette prefers Meiwa.
harveyc
01-22-2012, 12:25 AM
I've got Nordman which is like Nagami, but seedless. Probably will be a year or two before it fruits.
Richard
01-22-2012, 12:26 AM
I've got Nordman which is like Nagami, but seedless. Probably will be a year or two before it fruits.
It's awesome.
venturabananas
01-22-2012, 03:17 AM
Meiwa is good. If you like the sour flesh of Nagami, you might not love it. It is sweeter, with very little juice/flesh at all. At least that's my limited experience.
Slightly off topic, I had a taste test with Oro Blanco and Melogold pummelo hybrids today. Both were very good. I liked Melogold's texture and thinner skin, but would probably give Oro Blanco the nod for flavor -- it had a bit less bitterness. Neither is very sour, due to their acidless pummelo parent.
I have something called an "Improved Myer Lemon", although I couldn't tell you what that improvement might be - for that matter, I'm not even sure what a "Myer Lemon" is like either.
I read somewhere that they bred a lemon with something else to get the Myer and Improved Myer types. The fruit is a little more roundish than what I see in the stores, and I believe these are less acidic. I think you can use these when they are still slightly green, too. The blooms smell great, and are mostly white with lavendar streaks. If there is a cluster of blooms, I generally don't allow more than 3 to make fruit. It is rather prolific, so I don't want to overtax the plant with too much fruit. At present the plant is about 5 ft high.
venturabananas
01-22-2012, 07:20 PM
Meyer lemons are a lemon-mandarin hybrid, and so are sweeter than regular lemons and have a hint of mandarin. The peel is tasty, too, at least to me. The only difference between "improved" and regular is resistance to some virus. I love them, grew up with them.
Richard
01-22-2012, 07:25 PM
I have something called an "Improved Myer Lemon", although I couldn't tell you what that improvement might be - for that matter, I'm not even sure what a "Myer Lemon" is like either.
I read somewhere that they bred a lemon with something else to get the Myer and Improved Myer types. The fruit is a little more roundish than what I see in the stores, and I believe these are less acidic. I think you can use these when they are still slightly green, too. The blooms smell great, and are mostly white with lavendar streaks. If there is a cluster of blooms, I generally don't allow more than 3 to make fruit. The improvement has more to do with plant hardiness than taste. It is rather prolific, so I don't want to overtax the plant with too much fruit. At present the plant is about 5 ft high.
The Meyer lemon is a naturally occurring stable hybrid between Lemon and Orange discovered in south-east Asia decades ago. Initially its parentage was debated as either a species or hybrid. After the details were worked out, the patented "Improved Meyer" was developed in a breeding program. It is unclear whether any of the original Meyer is present in U.S. nursery stock since the major U.S. growers all graft from mother trees of "Improved Meyer".
fmu65
01-23-2012, 08:53 AM
While testing the soil for my Meyer lemon, I accidentally knocked one off! :( now there are only two, but the are going strong. And yes, the soil was way too high in nitrogen. Ugh. Could that explain why it dropped most of its fruit initially?
harveyc
01-23-2012, 11:01 AM
The Improved Meyer is the same as Meyer. They just cleaned it up (removed virus) and that was the "improved" part.
My mother-in-law made a nice marmalade with it but I otherwise didn't care for it. When I want a lemon I want the real thing. I removed the one that was here when I bought my place since it was in the way of a project.
Well, getting rid of a virus is certainly an improvement in my book. The only other citrus I grow is called Kalamansi by local Filipinos, and I'm not sure what that equates to. I've heard it called a lime, but it eventually gets orange on the outside, usually 2 in or smaller, and stays pretty sour.
Richard
01-23-2012, 11:24 AM
While testing the soil for my Meyer lemon, I accidentally knocked one off! :( now there are only two, but the are going strong. And yes, the soil was way too high in nitrogen. Ugh. Could that explain why it dropped most of its fruit initially?
For citrus to grow fruit to maturity (a) the roots need to have sufficient stores of potash to produce carbohydrates, cell structure, etc., (b) the root system needs to be mature enough to deliver sustenance to the fruits, and (c) leaves of the plant need to be receiving enough power in the form of light to photosynthesize so the plant can function. For indoor plants, the total of all sources of light should work out to at least 55 watts/sq.ft. with a 6500K spectrum. Further, even if all of these criteria are met, an over-abundance of nitrogen can cause fruit drop. An over-abundance would mean a ratio of N to K way beyond 3 to 2, or simply bad timing: applying a high-nitrogen fertilizer (e.g., fish emulsion) during early stages of fruit formation.
Lisa, if the fruit dropped off just by casual bumping of the plant then my guess that situation is a combination of a,b,c and not just timing of fertilizer.
venturabananas
01-23-2012, 12:50 PM
Yug, Kalamansi is Calamondin.
Harvey, try Meyer Lemon squeezed in club soda and drop the peel in to get the flavor of the oils. Really good and refreshing.
Richard
01-23-2012, 02:15 PM
... Harvey, try Meyer Lemon squeezed in club soda and drop the peel in to get the flavor of the oils. Really good and refreshing.
For my tastes, I think it is good in this role -- but sweet lemon is even better. For lemon zest, the rind of Eureka or Lisbon is hard to beat. Again, that's just my finicky tastes :ha:
harveyc
04-13-2012, 01:01 PM
I bought a Centennial kumquat the other day because I like the way it looks. At Riverside it's reported to have ripe fruit year-round. The fruit I've tried are okay.
sunfish
04-13-2012, 01:50 PM
I bought a Centennial kumquat the other day because I like the way it looks. At Riverside it's reported to have ripe fruit year-round. The fruit I've tried are okay.
To take the place of the AE AE.
barnetmill
04-13-2012, 01:51 PM
I have planted two types of kumquat hybrids. One looks a like and orange and the other is crossed with lemon. The lemon cross seems not to have survived very well a severe winter the other year. The other orange looking type is very small after many years of frost damage, shade, and according to Richard likely needs to potash also. I picked all of the fruit last November except for one that I left on the tree and it is still there.
This last winter I protected my satumas from the cold and they look a lot better than after other past winters and are now starting to put out flowers.
venturabananas
04-13-2012, 01:54 PM
I think most kumquats are beautiful plants and always play around with the idea of getting one. In the end, I don't have one because I just don't love their flavor enough to devote the space to one in my small, banana-dominated yard! If I had a bigger yard, I'd definitely have one.
harveyc
04-13-2012, 04:49 PM
To take the place of the AE AE.
I've got the hardy variegated tanna for that.
My son doesn't like eating citrus but there was a kumquat at a farm I rented for a few years and he tasted one and liked it. I think that was always in the summer time when I really didn't have other ripe citrus so I bought a Nordman (seedless) a year ago and now the Centennial. I'm getting pretty crowded but still have room more more things than most folks. I have about a dozen different citrus now though several still are in pots (many are ones I grafted so they are small).
Dean W.
05-19-2012, 10:05 AM
I have a kumquat I should get identified.
neferset
08-06-2012, 09:59 AM
I had the Undead Meyer Lemon until the cat finished it off at last, along with my seedling Lemon Kanu'on. I got a replacement that had been grafted--not a great fan of grafted trees here, due to the growth habit, rooted cuttings produce stronger plants for me--and the date on the tag placed it at about the same age as my original goat eaten, puppy mauled cutting grown Meyer. It fruited for the first time last year, although I was nervous about letting the spindly thing bear fruit. The lemons looked like Eurekas or Lisbons, not round like the Meyer Lemons I've seen. They were extremely strong, acid lemons with great lemony flavor. But...the Nursery must have mislabeled, I'm thinking. Since the fruit is ready in winter, I'm betting my grafted Meyer is a Lisbon.
I have a young Meyer that is cutting grown on its own roots which I'm hoping will one day produce real Meyer Lemons.
I've read here and there that Calamondin is a Kumquat hybrid witha mandarin. Mine is huge but in need of potting up soon. I root trim every third year or so, too.
I fell in love with the idea of a Eustice Limequat and had to try one, but after the move things were tight, so I ordered seeds instead. I'd been trying to figure out if they could possibly come true to type when the seedlings came up. The older one has dainty, slender leaves, while the other has rounded leaves like a Key Lime. I'm thinking I have my answer. But, who knows, maybe the fruit will be worth it...some day.
RandyGHO
08-06-2012, 12:48 PM
Here is my 6 year old in-ground Meyers. It produces about 300 lemons a season averaging about 1/2 pound each. The lemons have just started showing a yellow blush.
I also have Brown-Select satsuma and a new this year Red navel or Cara-Cara as some call it.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49983&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49983)
neferset
08-06-2012, 04:14 PM
Pretty and the fruit is nothing like mine. My grafted Meyer must be a Lisbon on Dwarf rootstock. I'll have to get a picture later.
RandyGHO
08-07-2012, 05:20 AM
The Meyers of course take on an orange shade when they reach peak ripeness. Then you will know for sure.
neferset
08-11-2012, 05:31 PM
Do they go through a yellow stage? Mine did. I picked them in December. I seem to think they flowered in February or March. Anyway, I've got fruit on now, so it will be a couple more months.
Snookie
08-11-2012, 07:07 PM
Yes Sir
Growing both:}
Here's a couple of pics of the Lemons & Satsuma's
Grandkids coming over around Labor Day Weekend, I'm sure they will help depelete the large crop lol
Lemons
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50093&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50093&ppuser=13202)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50092&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50092&ppuser=13202)
Satsumas
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50091&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50091&ppuser=13202)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50090&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50090&ppuser=13202)
RandyGHO
08-11-2012, 07:35 PM
What kind of satsumas or those Snooke?
amantedelenguaje
08-11-2012, 09:03 PM
Count me in. This is my 1.5 year old Meyer lemon. The fruit are just starting to turn a yellowish.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J8vNYaiEQ5k/UB1oidYachI/AAAAAAAABww/YDBKZzZYYWw/s320/P8040022%2B%2528600x800%2529.jpg
neferset
08-13-2012, 01:18 PM
Here's mine. From that angle the fruit look more round than they are. I'm embarrassed by how yellow the leaves still are. I've been working on the fertilizer and direct light and such since I moved last winter. I don't think my citrus liked being in trash cans in the moving truck.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50138><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50138&size=1 border=0></a>
Snookie
08-13-2012, 04:32 PM
What kind of satsumas or those Snooke?
Owari I think? lol
It's my oldest tree at approx 7 years. I keep it trimmed to about 6' tall
It's doing very well but the other 8-9 trees I have not so well.
But again last year others did well this one didn't.
Exceptionally large fruit this year....Must have been holding my tounge right or something to get these results lol
mksmth
08-13-2012, 05:01 PM
I have several citrus but to stay on topic yes a couple meyer lemon and a fukushu kumquat. My fukushu is about 2 years old and one of my best looking trees. always green, flushing new growth and seems to always be in flower. However the fruit is not all that great :( Ill give it a couple years to see if they get better if not I probably replace it with something.
mike
sandy0225
08-13-2012, 08:15 PM
We just have a key lime and a limequat. They both have fruit set right now and they're both still blooming. They're my hubby's pet plants.
neferset
08-14-2012, 01:57 PM
These two little tiny things in the cups in the front are the limequat seedlings. I have no idea what will come of them. The one with the long, slim leaves is in the foreground. I'm not sure if you can see the one with the wide leaves well enough.
<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50156><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=50156&size=1 border=0></a>
island cassie
08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
We have had Meyers Improved Lemons in pots for 8 years now (our soil is unsuitable for them) they do great and we get 80+ lemons per plant. Not like little pointy lemons - big round fruit that taste gorgeous. The parent plant was grafted onto unknown rootstock, but the cuttings seem to grow in the same form so I am not sure why the grafting was needed in the first place. Great for Margaritas!!!!
Nicolas Naranja
08-14-2012, 11:17 PM
This spring, I potted a Meyer, a Eureka, and 2 persian limes in front of my house.
mksmth
08-15-2012, 07:52 AM
We have had Meyers Improved Lemons in pots for 8 years now (our soil is unsuitable for them) they do great and we get 80+ lemons per plant. Not like little pointy lemons - big round fruit that taste gorgeous. The parent plant was grafted onto unknown rootstock, but the cuttings seem to grow in the same form so I am not sure why the grafting was needed in the first place. Great for Margaritas!!!!
hey cassie
typically they are grafted to put the scion on either a dwarfing rootstock or one with more disease and or cold resistance. I have read on other citrus forums that meyers do OK on their own roots, as in cuttings, but do better on other rootstocks. I know a lot of people who have great looking trees grown from cuttings so I dont really have an opinion on what was is "better"
Mike
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