View Full Version : Pest damage ID
MSmith
10-29-2011, 03:31 PM
I have some abnormal leaves on my banana tree, I dont know if its from a pest or not, I'm trying to post some pictures here or post a link to the pictures.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110364466302758798416/20111028BananaLeaves?authuser=0&feat=directlink
I have only noticed whitefly on the leaves, in the pictures I show them on my plumeria which is in the same yard as the bananas. But I dont know if the whitefly has caused the damage to the leaves, I have sprayed neem on them but it doesnt seem to work well, Ill try an insecticidal soap. I have the bananas in the ground and have used banana fuel, they are growing great but Im just concerned about those leaves and what it is so that I can address it now.
Thanks
sunfish
10-29-2011, 05:30 PM
I have some abnormal leaves on my banana tree, I dont know if its from a pest or not, I'm trying to post some pictures here or post a link to the pictures.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110364466302758798416/20111028BananaLeaves?authuser=0&feat=directlink
I have only noticed whitefly on the leaves, in the pictures I show them on my plumeria which is in the same yard as the bananas. But I dont know if the whitefly has caused the damage to the leaves, I have sprayed neem on them but it doesnt seem to work well, Ill try an insecticidal soap. I have the bananas in the ground and have used banana fuel, they are growing great but Im just concerned about those leaves and what it is so that I can address it now.
Thanks
I don't know what the cause is but I think it's pest.
fmu65
10-31-2011, 06:45 AM
Is there anything in the curled leaves- webbing, insects, etc?
MSmith
11-02-2011, 06:39 PM
theres the whiteflies and very small spiders, the webbing is difficult to see but its there
The Hollyberry Lady
11-02-2011, 06:55 PM
Plain old water, is a wonderful organic weapon to use on pests...
Just keep hitting the plants with hard sprays of water each day from the hose, literally knocking the pests right off the plants. Often, this is all that is needed to rid them.
If you continue to shower them once or twice a week, after you've gained control again, this should be enough to keep the pests from taking up residence on your leaves anymore.
Keeping bugs away is an on-going process. An ounce of prevention though, is worth a pound of cure. ;)
Good luck!
: )
MSmith
11-02-2011, 07:17 PM
that is one thing I havent been doing because the leaves are so high now I would be watering the house as well, and one of them I would have to spray water over into the neighbors yard, but Ill have to try it.
Gabe15
11-02-2011, 07:34 PM
It looks to me more like a nutrition issue. Sometimes calcium deficiency can cause wrinkled leaves like that, it could also be another micronutrient deficiency. What do you fertilize with?
MSmith
11-02-2011, 07:54 PM
It looks to me more like a nutrition issue. Sometimes calcium deficiency can cause wrinkled leaves like that, it could also be another micronutrient deficiency. What do you fertilize with?
grow more banana fuel 20-5-30
fmu65
11-03-2011, 08:00 AM
It sounds like at least one issue is spider mites, so the recommendation to use sprays of water at first is best. If you don't have any improvement, there are other organically certified sprays to use, but I always try to use them as a last resort even if they have an organic label. And even with the organic sprays, you will have to do multiple applications and make sure you get all sides of the leaves and pseudostem to really control all stages of the life cycle. Keep us updated!
sunfish
11-03-2011, 08:13 AM
I don't believe spider mite are a problem on outdoor plants. Not for me anyhow
fmu65
11-03-2011, 08:19 AM
Small webbing in a curled leaf with tiny spider-like critters? I know it is less likely outside, but without actually seeing them, that is the best guess I have. Any chance we can see some pictures?
The Hollyberry Lady
11-03-2011, 09:49 AM
While it is true that spider mites are not generally a problem on outdoor plants, location of the plant is a factor. If it's a new garden, and a multitude of beneficial insects are not yet taking care of the area, mites can pose a problem on outdoor plants. :(
I've never had to use anything other than water and some spices from my kitchen to keep pests in control. If measures are taken on a consistent and regular basis, the bugs won't stand a chance. ;)
: )
MSmith
11-03-2011, 06:25 PM
are spider mites visible because I have seen the spiders that are on my leaves, Ill try to get a picture but not sure my camera can capture such a small thing
MSmith
11-03-2011, 06:41 PM
i just tried and couldnt get anything in focus, i have an 18-55 lens. there isnt that much spiders to do that much damage I think. I bought some gypsum to provide calcium, and a ph tester to see where my soil is.
sunfish
11-03-2011, 06:47 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=spider%20mite%20actual%20size&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSpider_mite&ei=ZSezToOrD8ewiQKyyvBf&usg=AFQjCNHnBRthurzPnINK_A54sLX3jbS0DA&cad=rja
sunfish
11-03-2011, 06:54 PM
I don't know what the cause is but I think it's pest.
SHould have read I don't think it's pests oops
The Hollyberry Lady
11-03-2011, 06:57 PM
If it is a mite problem, you'll want to rid them fast. They multiply like crazy and in a short period of time! :eek:
Sometimes they look like little black dots on the back of the leaves, but if you poke them with a toothpick and the dots move, you know you've got a spidermite problem. They also create lots of fine webs under the leaves as well, when things have really got out of control.
They absolutely hate water and it's all that's really needed to get rid of them, as well as keep them away.
: )
MSmith
11-03-2011, 07:29 PM
thanks for the help, Im now thinking its a nutrient issue, I noticed some new leaves just now and they dont look normal
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ua32E_FXYFTjBq7emCVvyg?feat=directlink
sunfish
11-03-2011, 07:48 PM
http://www.bananas.org/f2/did-i-over-fertilize-8493.html#post81881
MSmith
11-03-2011, 09:10 PM
thanks tony, your pictures look identical to mine, I only used the banana fuel fertilizer once a month, I need to find out what my ph is now.
sunfish
11-03-2011, 09:20 PM
thanks tony, your pictures look identical to mine, I only used the banana fuel fertilizer once a month, I need to find out what my ph is now.
If I remember right I cut down on the fertilizer and that took care of it. Your plants probably won't need fertilizer until spring anyhow.
venturabananas
11-05-2011, 12:21 AM
I've had the same kind of problems with my bananas, and after lots of trial and error, I am pretty confident that in my case it was boron deficiency causing the deformed growth. The symptoms look very much like Calcium deficiency, which is unfortunate because adding Calcium inhibits uptake of Boron.
I'd recommend paying the money to have a professional soil test done. Had I done that at the outset, I would have fixed the problem about a year earlier. Instead, I added lots of gypsum and made the problem worse.
When there is deficiency of a micronutrient that is hard for the plant to transport (e.g., boron, calcium), any fertilizing is likely to exacerbate the problem.
MSmith
11-05-2011, 11:35 AM
I've had the same kind of problems with my bananas, and after lots of trial and error, I am pretty confident that in my case it was boron deficiency causing the deformed growth. The symptoms look very much like Calcium deficiency, which is unfortunate because adding Calcium inhibits uptake of Boron.
I'd recommend paying the money to have a professional soil test done. Had I done that at the outset, I would have fixed the problem about a year earlier. Instead, I added lots of gypsum and made the problem worse.
When there is deficiency of a micronutrient that is hard for the plant to transport (e.g., boron, calcium), any fertilizing is likely to exacerbate the problem.
oh thanks, I have some gypsum but its still in the bag, any recommendation on any place to send the soil for testing?
sunfish
11-05-2011, 11:47 AM
http://www.bananas.org/f312/soil-testing-services-14132.html?highlight=soil+test
venturabananas
11-05-2011, 07:30 PM
Don't use the gypsum until after you have the results of the soil test in hand and it shows calcium deficiency. I used A & L Western and liked their service.
sunfish
11-05-2011, 07:34 PM
Don't use the gypsum until after you have the results of the soil test in hand and it shows calcium deficiency. I used A & L Western and liked their service.
and what were the results ?
venturabananas
11-05-2011, 07:41 PM
Deficient in boron, everything else OK, though more nitrogen wouldn't hurt.
sunfish
11-05-2011, 07:46 PM
Deficient in boron, everything else OK, though more nitrogen wouldn't hurt.
You have clay soil ?
venturabananas
11-06-2011, 06:03 PM
Yep, I have clay. It's supposed to seldom be low in boron, but mine is, for whatever reason.
MSmith
11-06-2011, 06:12 PM
I was looking at the a&l website, it looks real interesting.
Im going to go with them. I can see how soil testing could save you alot of time and money
MSmith
11-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Am I supposed to take the rocks, bark, roots, etc. out of the soil sample or do they do that at the lab?
venturabananas
11-06-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm not sure what you are really supposed to do. I took all the big, non-soil chunks out. But I'd call them and ask. The woman I talked to on the phone was very helpful.
sunfish
11-06-2011, 08:54 PM
Am I supposed to take the rocks, bark, roots, etc. out of the soil sample or do they do that at the lab?
I don't think they need the rock ,bark etc. May be a good idea to take samples from different areas of the yard
sunfish
11-06-2011, 09:01 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=how%20to%20collect%20soil%20sample%20for%20analysis&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3YuA20kZ1EA&ei=szu3TruMFo3YiAKs8_V2&usg=AFQjCNGzC7Tmj97yB8HsqqQI5bePl_wrsg&cad=rja
MSmith
11-17-2011, 09:18 PM
I got the report in the mail today. My soil isnt low in calcium or boron, but high and very high in other areas. I'll list the results:
Organic Matter 3.5% = medium
Nitrogen 327ppm = very high
Phosphorus Weak
Bray 88ppm =high
Phosphorus
NaHCO3-P 66ppm =high
Potassium 729ppm =high
Magnesium 265ppm =low
Calcium 3191ppm =medium
Sodium 285ppm =medium
Sulfur 301ppm =very high
Zinc 28.1ppm =very high
Manganese 4ppm =low
Iron 43ppm =very high
Copper 4.0ppm =high
Boron 0.9ppm =medium
Chloride blank
ECe dS/m = High, i think this is salinity
CEC meq/100g = 24.1, dont know what this is
Ex. Lime = L dont know what this is
pH = 6.2
buffer pH = 6.7
Dolomite (70 score) = 70
Percent Cation Saturation
Potassium 7.7 %
Magnesium 9.0%
Calcium 66.1%
Sodium 5.1%
Comments say might need to lime if buffer index is less than 6.9
salts need to be washed out of the root zone
restrict further nitrogen applications, protect ground water
So I need to stop fertilzing, and wash the salt out, how do I do that?
I think that came from my aquarium saltwater that I dumped there long before I planted anything there, stupid me I didnt know.
What else should I do, and when to retest?
sunfish
11-17-2011, 09:52 PM
I got the report in the mail today. My soil isnt low in calcium or boron, but high and very high in other areas. I'll list the results:
Organic Matter 3.5% = medium
Nitrogen 327ppm = very high
Phosphorus Weak
Bray 88ppm =high
Phosphorus
NaHCO3-P 66ppm =high
Potassium 729ppm =high
Magnesium 265ppm =low
Calcium 3191ppm =medium
Sodium 285ppm =medium
Sulfur 301ppm =very high
Zinc 28.1ppm =very high
Manganese 4ppm =low
Iron 43ppm =very high
Copper 4.0ppm =high
Boron 0.9ppm =medium
Chloride blank
ECe dS/m = High, i think this is salinity
CEC meq/100g = 24.1, dont know what this is
Ex. Lime = L dont know what this is
pH = 6.2
buffer pH = 6.7
Dolomite (70 score) = 70
Percent Cation Saturation
Potassium 7.7 %
Magnesium 9.0%
Calcium 66.1%
Sodium 5.1%
Comments say might need to lime if buffer index is less than 6.9
salts need to be washed out of the root zone
restrict further nitrogen applications, protect ground water
So I need to stop fertilzing, and wash the salt out, how do I do that?
I think that came from my aquarium saltwater that I dumped there long before I planted anything there, stupid me I didnt know.
What else should I do, and when to retest?
Maybe the winter rains will be enough to wash out the salts
venturabananas
11-17-2011, 10:25 PM
Overall, it does sound like a micronutrient deficiency as a result of overfertilizing -- not enough of some micronutrient to keep up with the high nitrogen. Not sure which micronutrient, but you might try a foliar spray with a broad-spectrum micronutrient supplement. But it might not do much at this time of year, with growth having slowed down already. That said, spraying mine with Solubor about a month ago really sorted my plants out.
I'm no expert, but I wouldn't worry about the pH and the lime, given that bananas like somewhat acidic soil.
Given that the nights are getting cool now and growth has slowed down, I personally probably wouldn't try washing out the salts because of the risk of rotting the roots. I'd just let the rain do it for you. Next summer, when it's nice and warm, you could really deeply water to leach out the salts. But I bet if you stop fertilizing now (which you should probably do over winter anyway), the plants will sort themselves out. The occasional micronutrient foliar feed probably couldn't hurt.
Richard knows a lot about this stuff. Maybe he'll chime in.
fmu65
11-18-2011, 09:09 AM
There is a product out by fox farm called sledgehammer that seems to work really well on potted plants that have been potted up too long. It is an extract of the yucca plant that helps break up old mineral deposits in the soil and on the roots. It also acts as a natural surfactant to help hold new fertilizers in the soil to be more available to the plant. No, I do not get kick backs from fox farm ;) I have used it in old potted plants and when my cats peed in a couple of my pots to wash out the urine. Seems to work better than just rinsing with water. You can apply fertilizer right away. But I agree that you should wait until spring to do any of this. Thanks for posting your results!
Simply Bananas
04-22-2012, 09:29 AM
A friend sent this pic of same bad beetles in the Lowcountry of SC.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=48567&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=48567&ppuser=226)
sorry of the orientation.
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