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View Full Version : Hmm...Papaya or Babaco?


caliboy1994
10-16-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm torn! I want to plant either papaya or babaco in my yard, but I can't make up my mind! Babaco is cold tolerant and heat intolerant, and papaya is heat tolerant and cold intolerant. Also, babaco is self-fertile and most papayas are not. If I'm going to plant papayas I will most likely have to plant both a male and female plant. I live in the foothills in Southern California (zone 10a), where summer temperatures can easily get into the 90s and sometimes 100s. Winter night temperatures can drop into the 30s, and frosts are very occasional but they do happen. We also have the Santa Ana winds during fall and winter, but I can compensate for this by planting it in a sheltered location.

I have seen papayas and possibly babacos growing here in the San Fernando Valley, but mostly a few miles south of where I live, which is zone 10b. I also went to a local nursery, and they had both papaya and babaco plants for sale there. I'm sort of leaning towards babacos because they are self fertile, but some extra advice would be nice. Here are some helpful resources:

PAPAYA Fruit Facts (http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/papaya.html)

BABACO Fruit Facts (http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/babaco.html)

sunfish
10-16-2011, 08:06 PM
I've never had any problem with heat and babaco

http://www.bananas.org/f8/babaco-3825.html?highlight=babaco

caliboy1994
10-16-2011, 08:59 PM
Looks like I'm going for babaco then. It should probably take the winds better too since it's a more stout plant. It just says on CRFG that babaco can get leaf burn and drop immature fruit if it gets really hot. But you live in San Diego...It's pretty much always nice there. It was over 100 degrees here the other day.

sunfish
10-16-2011, 09:10 PM
Looks like I'm going for babaco then. It should probably take the winds better too since it's a more stout plant. It just says on CRFG that babaco can get leaf burn and drop immature fruit if it gets really hot. But you live in San Diego...It's pretty much always nice there. It was over 100 degrees here the other day.

It was 98 here. :woohoonaner:

emegar
10-16-2011, 11:20 PM
I have a friend in Loma Linda (9b, I think) who is successfully growing both, and I'm sure his place gets both hotter and colder than your locale. I'm trying both myself, here in Rancho Cucamonga.

caliboy1994
10-17-2011, 01:36 AM
Maybe I could try both then! :D

sunfish
10-17-2011, 06:27 AM
I have both

caliboy1994
10-17-2011, 10:57 AM
Well I think that if I'm going to get papaya I'm going to get a bisexual plant so that I don't need to get a male. Any good bisexual varieties?

sunfish
10-17-2011, 12:30 PM
When you buy a papaya plant it should include at least three plants together so you'll get fruit

Bob3
10-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Well I think that if I'm going to get papaya I'm going to get a bisexual plant so that I don't need to get a male. Any good bisexual varieties?

There are a couple good "Solo" varieties; the "Solo Papaya Sunrise" (sometimes called "Strawberry Papaya") is the most popular grown papaya worldwide. It's a Hawaiian variety that produces either female or hermaphroditic plants, so all of them will be producers. (still do at least 3 though)
Now is a good time to start papaya seed if you have a good place to over-winter them, I wouldn't wait much later or you'll miss the best (hottest) part of the summer next year.
:nanadrink:
:lurk:

caliboy1994
10-17-2011, 06:09 PM
Thanks, but the only problem is that I don't have as much experience with germinating. They do have papayas at my local nursery, labeled "Mexican" or "Hawaiian," but I'm not sure what the specific varieties. When it comes to papaya I'm probably either going to get Sunrise or Sunset.

sunfish
10-17-2011, 06:14 PM
Thanks, but the only problem is that I don't have as much experience with germinating. They do have papayas at my local nursery, labeled "Mexican" or "Hawaiian," but I'm not sure what the specific varieties. When it comes to papaya I'm probably either going to get Sunrise or Sunset.

You can't get experience unless you try :nanadrink:

raygrogan
10-17-2011, 08:04 PM
Last spring I tasted my first good Mexican papayas (in the "old days" they were gigantic and tasted bad to my spoiled Hawaiian taste buds). These "new" ones were medium sized, reddish on inside, and had product codes of 4395 (Blondie label) and 4396 (Sensation label). I think they may be "maradol" and may be more suitable to your climate. I don't know about growing nor do I know what your nursery has as Mexican.

venturabananas
10-18-2011, 01:11 AM
The guys at Papaya Tree nursery near you have been growing babaco in the San Fernando Valley for decades. I think they recommend planting them partial shade if you live in the valley. Keep in mind that babaco tastes nothing like a papaya. I really like, but don't expect papaya flavor -- it is tart and refreshing.

I have several Mexican papayas that haven't done much in the year and a half I've had them, though one is now flowering. I also planted a couple of TR Hovey papayas this spring which are now about 3.5' and just starting to make flowers. So far, I'm happy with them, but I don't know how they'll do over winter.

Go talk to the guys at Papaya Tree Nursery, they'll be able to tell you what will grow well in your environment. They sell several self-fruitful papayas.

caliboy1994
10-18-2011, 01:34 AM
Ok, I'll look into it. But I'd prefer to go for growing a Hawaiian type since they taste better. And by the way, do papayas do well if you transplant them from containers?

caliboy1994
10-18-2011, 01:38 AM
Just looked at their site. How ironic, they're only one or two miles from my house, right by my old elementary school. I'll definitely have to check it out.

sunfish
10-18-2011, 08:15 AM
Ok, I'll look into it. But I'd prefer to go for growing a Hawaiian type since they taste better. And by the way, do papayas do well if you transplant them from containers?

You can transplant any plant from a container,just don't disturb the root ball.With some plants,mango bougainvillaea ,it's better to cut the pot rather than trying to pull the plant from the container.

Bob3
10-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks, but the only problem is that I don't have as much experience with germinating. ... When it comes to papaya I'm probably either going to get Sunrise or Sunset.
No significant experience needed, poke holes in dirt, insert seed & take it from there, just don't over-water & keep as warm as possible without cooking the critters.

The sprouts in the yogurt tubs were started off on top of the DVR 'till they poked out of the dirt because we got into a cold snap right after planting, so they have a few days head start.
(these are all SOLO PAPAYA, both Sunrise & Sunset, by the way.)
<img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=46375&size=1 border=2>

Harden off for a week or 2 before allowing full sun.
Plant extras so you can pass around to friends & relatives, sell on Craigslist and/or swap in the forum! ;)

<img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=46377&size=1 border=2>

caliboy1994
10-18-2011, 07:16 PM
Could I germinate them inside with a Grow Light? And how much space would a plant need?

Bob3
10-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Could I germinate them inside with a Grow Light? And how much space would a plant need?
If your grow lights crank out a hefty amount of light they should be OK, just watch out so they don't get spindly & keep 'em well fed.
You can start them off in 4"- 6" diameter pots, or even smaller, just plant extras for when you lose some after transplanting.
Plant a bunch of seeds & select the most sturdy & robust seedlings for pampering in larger pots, mixing pot sizes to see how well they perform is a good way to tell just what you can get away with.
You should be able to get away (crowded) with 3 - 4 per square foot by the time they're ready to transplant outdoors next spring.
Ideally they would be happier in bigger pots with more room but "ideal" isn't always "practical".

caliboy1994
10-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the advice. But what I'm really getting at is how much space do they need in the ground. If I end up germinating extra papayas I'm probably just going to give them away. Problem is I don't have much space in my yard that's sheltered enough from the Santa Ana winds. I've already got a huge spot reserved for 1000 Fingers, and all of the other empty spots are next to other plants and are pretty small (one is around 3 ft by 3 ft). The east side of the yard is off limits because my dad wants to make it more of a foresty environment. I'll try to post some pics of the spots I'm looking at. By the way, how long do saved papaya seeds usually last?

Bob3
10-18-2011, 11:27 PM
...how much space do they need in the ground. No closer than 6', 10' better. If you already have something shorter that likes partial shade, that's the best of both worlds, you can hammer them in between.
...my dad wants to make it more of a foresty environment. ..and a 10'-15' tall tree-like plant isn't enough of a tree? ;) Think of them more as a "temporary" type plant, they're fast growers but don't last all that long, Hawaiian varieties can be treated more like a 2-year event. (unlike their Mexican cousins that can get 20'+ tall & take a couple years to fruit.)
...how long do saved papaya seeds usually last?I'd expect fresh seed to maintain at least 80% viability at 2 years. It's not worth saving them any longer than that, with fresh seed being very easy to come by.

caliboy1994
10-19-2011, 12:11 AM
Thanks. But what I mean by "forest environment" is sort of like a pine forest environment. He planted redwoods and manzanitas on that side of the yard. There's a nice patch of grass there, but it only gets full sun a few hours a day. The rest of the time it's either partially or fully shaded.

Anyways, I guess my other spots are too small. Once we rearrange the yard a bit as planned, there will be a LOT more room. I guess I'll find a spot for it in this new room. Or maybe I could plant 1000 Fingers in that new spot (since it's relatively wind resistant) and plant the papaya where my 1000 fingers was going to be planted. Anyways, I'll find a way.

By the way, do papayas sucker from the base of the plant? I read somewhere that babacos do.

sunfish
10-19-2011, 06:02 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=46413&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=46413&ppuser=2868)

sunfish
10-23-2011, 06:51 PM
Papaya

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=46455&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=46455&ppuser=2868)

caliboy1994
10-24-2011, 12:08 AM
How much wind can they take? Santa Ana winds here can be 35-45 mph. We get gusts sometimes in excess of 60 mph. I do have a few sheltered spots in my yard, though.

sunfish
10-24-2011, 11:49 AM
How much wind can they take? Santa Ana winds here can be 35-45 mph. We get gusts sometimes in excess of 60 mph. I do have a few sheltered spots in my yard, though.

Be best in protected area :08: