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kcj1219
07-15-2011, 03:56 PM
Hey everyone!

Just was wondering something. What other young banana plants have wine blotches on the leaves besides Cavendish?

Thanks!

Nicolas Naranja
07-15-2011, 06:16 PM
From my own experience:
Fhia-17
Maricongo
Common Dwarf plantain
Dwarf Superplantain

So probably anything in the Cavendish, Gros Michel, or Macho Plantain groupings.

venturabananas
07-16-2011, 12:14 AM
Lots of them have wine blotches. Of the ones I have, the following have produced at least faint wine blotches.

FHIA 1
FHIA 2
FHIA 18
Manzano
Lakatan
Kluai Khai
Yangambi KM5
Pisang Ceylan
Rajapuri

In general, it seems that cultivars with lots of "A" genes usually have wine blotches (though not all do). None of my ABB plants have wine blotches.

kcj1219
07-16-2011, 01:01 AM
Thanks guys.


Lots of them have wine blotches. Of the ones I have, the following have produced at least faint wine blotches.

FHIA 1
FHIA 2
FHIA 18
Manzano
Lakatan
Kluai Khai
Yangambi KM5
Pisang Ceylan
Rajapuri

In general, it seems that cultivars with lots of "A" genes usually have wine blotches (though not all do). None of my ABB plants have wine blotches.



Yesterday 07:16 PM

What do you think these young plants might be?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44331&size=1
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44332&size=1
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44333&size=1

Very faint wine blotches towards the midrib and long petioles. One of the new leaves is already pure green. (Last Pic)

venturabananas
07-16-2011, 10:08 AM
No idea. Doesn't look like any of the ones I have. Those long petioles separate it from anything I have with splotches. Nice looking plant. Can you narrow down the possibilities at all, or was it just sold as "banana plant"? The closest of mine would be manzano, but at the size of your plant, mine didn't have petioles that long. But some of these traits are pretty flexible, depending on growing conditions.

sunfish
07-16-2011, 10:55 AM
This is the close as I can get. Monkey Finger.It does have wine blotches

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44339&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44339&ppuser=2868)

kcj1219
07-20-2011, 06:32 PM
Well I was afraid to say this since I'm still naive to the banana world. I purchased these TCs from that Greenhouse business place and ordered California Gold from them. These are what I recieved. I didn't see the post about CGs from there until it was too late. Still not sure what these might be. Went back to the web site to see what he might of sent me. He doesn't sell Monkey Fingers. He does sell Williams. Do you think it might be a TC Williams with the wine blotches?

venturabananas
07-20-2011, 06:44 PM
Well, they're not CA Gold, which are closely related to or the same as dwarf Orinoco, in the "Bluggoe" group, which don't have wine splotches. If you are talking about Greenearth, based on what he currently has listed (assuming the ID's are correct), it seems like the only real possibilities are "Apple" (= Manzano) or Williams. My small Williams TC has much shorter petioles, but a lot of these characteristics are really variable, especially in young TC plants. I'd guess Manzano, but I'm not expert. When they get bigger it should get a little easier to figure out.

kcj1219
07-20-2011, 07:01 PM
Here they are a almost a week later. They are looking pretty healthy. I did contact the guy who runs that place and he obviously doesn't know much about banana plants. I told him that CGs wouldn't have wine blotches and that I just wanted to know what he might of sent me instead and that I would keep them. He basically told me that HE WAS TOLD that some CGs have wine blotches and some don't. Yikes... that's bad when someone doesn't even know what he's selling. Or maybe he does?....lol

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44470&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44468&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44469&size=1

Yug
07-20-2011, 09:11 PM
I have a double Mahoi, and a Manzano with wine-spots on the leaves. The Manzano appears to be losing them now that it is getting taller. I don't know what group the double Mahoi is in though - maybe Cavendish?

sunfish
07-20-2011, 09:28 PM
I have a double Mahoi, and a Manzano with wine-spots on the leaves. The Manzano appears to be losing them now that it is getting taller. I don't know what group the double Mahoi is in though - maybe Cavendish?

Yes

kcj1219
07-21-2011, 07:28 PM
As always thanks guys.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see until obvious characteristics start popping up. And who knows what he gave me. I read on an earlier post about that place that he was giving out Orinoco for CG orders. Well now orinoco doesn't exist on his list. He might be giving out Goldfinger and calling it California Gold. You never know....

To be continued.......

plundccre
08-02-2011, 04:16 PM
These are two plants that I received from GreenEarth out of Florida. They are supposed to be a California Gold and a Goldfinger. I don't believe that either should have the wine splotches on them. When I contacted Tom about it, he insisted that they would lose the splotches over time, but every new leaf seems to have them. I understood that Goldfinger should be totally green. It is looking like I was sent two of the same plant of some other random banana. Anyone have a reasonable idea of what these actually are?

sunfish
08-02-2011, 06:46 PM
These are two plants that I received from GreenEarth out of Florida. They are supposed to be a California Gold and a Goldfinger. I don't believe that either should have the wine splotches on them. When I contacted Tom about it, he insisted that they would lose the splotches over time, but every new leaf seems to have them. I understood that Goldfinger should be totally green. It is looking like I was sent two of the same plant of some other random banana. Anyone have a reasonable idea of what these actually are?

Goldfinger,some have wine marks some don't.They all have red outline on leaves

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44795&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44795&ppuser=2868)

plundccre
08-02-2011, 06:55 PM
That's some good information. I'll check for the red line.

kcj1219
08-02-2011, 10:36 PM
Here are my unknown TCs now. They are very healthy plants. Still not sure what they are. One thing for sure is they are an AAA type plant. The petioles are starting to have that cavendish look to them where the edges are layed open. Wine blotches are not real thick and petioles seem to be still kind of long. They do have a thin red border on the leaf but I just looked at my DC that has a 4 ft stem and 40"+ leaves and they have a red border too. I was hoping that if I received the wrong thing that it would be something like Goldfinger. I'm going to guess that these are William due to the tall thin stem and long petioles. The base of one of the plants is starting to show some red on it too.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44814&size=1

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44815&size=1

venturabananas
08-02-2011, 11:47 PM
Peter, you definitely don't have CA Gold, which is in the Bluggoe subgroup (Orinoco), which has no wine splotches. Goldfinger does have wine splotches on water suckers, so you might have one. Mine has never produced pups with marks that dark, but it might be different for a TC'd plant.

kcj1219
08-03-2011, 11:32 AM
What do the nurseries in FL think is California Gold? I've noticed this a few times with people ordering Cal Gold before knowing truly where to get it (like me) from FL nurseries. Then they receive a plant with wine blotches that is clearly not what they ordered and is not CG. Makes you wonder if select nurseries call a different plant CG like a nickname for some sort of cavendish type plant.

plundccre
08-03-2011, 01:08 PM
I looked at my two plants. One seems to have a red line along the edge (at least partially) while the other one does not. Both have red developing at the base in addition to the wine splotches.

I mentioned this to Ted at GreenEarth and he issued me an immediate credit so he seems to stand behind his sales.

Peter

saltydad
08-03-2011, 02:23 PM
Truly Tiny and High Color Mini have them. Of course, Bordelon and zebrina (duh).

kcj1219
08-04-2011, 09:00 AM
I mentioned this to Ted at GreenEarth and he issued me an immediate credit so he seems to stand behind his sales.

Peter

That's good to know.

Going Bananas
08-02-2015, 07:09 PM
Im still hoping this Florida Hill Nursery tc
is a true Mona Lisa.
The wine splotches according to this thread is
a cavendish variety trademark of AAA genes.
MLs have both Williams and SH3393.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=58211 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=58210&ppuser=20832)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=58210 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=58201&ppuser=20832)

Going Bananas
08-03-2015, 11:50 AM
FHN MonaLisa update with pics taken today.
This is a month after the previous post.
This one produces alot of leaves and hangs on
to the leaves for the longest time.
This pic shows 10 very dark green leaves that
easily gets sunburned when its still unfurled.

Anyone on here grown a real Mona Lisa?
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=58419 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=58368&ppuser=20832)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=58418 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=58419&ppuser=20832)

venturabananas
08-03-2015, 12:23 PM
I'm pretty sure I have the real Mona Lisa (FHIA-02), obtained from Going Bananas. It's fruited only once, but seems to match the description of this variety.

It has never had such heavy wine blotches as your plant does. That, and the fact yours is from FHN, makes me think you have something else.

The supposed FHIA-18 I got from FHN turned out to either be a very short Mahoi or a Super Dwarf Cavendish that is producing a double bloom as a result of damage by aphids. The "Kluai Khai" from FHN turned out to be a tall Pome. So neither were remotely similar to what I ordered. I'd view purchasing any banana from him as purchasing "banana plants: assorted varieties and you won't be told what they actually are".

But it's pretty hard to know what you got until it flowers, and even then it might be tricky.

Going Bananas
08-03-2015, 02:31 PM
So true!
When I discovered this old thread I thought
it would help me in identifying this tc.
Does your ML sunburn as well?

I have it exposed to east facing morning light
and the sunburn is only on the exposed unfurled new leaf.
Eventually when it unfurls and opens, a burn scar
is imprinted on the leaf.
The unfurled leaf also likes to grow within
the petiole groove of the previous leaf.
Thats why on the previous pics, you have the
new/unfurled leaf curvy and bent.

VB thanks again.:bananas_b
I sure hope its the real McCoy!

Going Bananas
08-03-2015, 02:42 PM
The more often we have this thread on the current topic list,
the more of an advisory warning to new members
before ordering tc from alot of the online retailers.
I was unfortunate to have read the topic
only after I placed the order.
As you said, its a crapshoot when you order from them.
Unless you find researching and looking thru
members photos amusing and take a liking
to being a Sherlock Holmes.

:lurk:

venturabananas
08-03-2015, 02:57 PM
Does your ML sunburn as well?

I have it exposed to east facing morning light
and the sunburn is only on the exposed unfurled new leaf.
Eventually when it unfurls and opens, a burn scar
is imprinted on the leaf.
The unfurled leaf also likes to grow within
the petiole groove of the previous leaf.
Thats why on the previous pics, you have the
new/unfurled leaf curvy and bent.


It's not especially noticeable on ML, but many varieties do this if you push their growth with lots of fertilizer. My understanding is that it is caused by micronutrient deficiency because even though you might have sufficient micronutrients in your soil, these micros are moved more slowly by the plant than the macronutrients, so you end up with leaves too low in calcium and/or boron. Or something like that.

Going Bananas
08-03-2015, 06:44 PM
I used Miracle Grow potting soil so possibly with excess fertilizer,
the unfurled new leaf shows that characteristic.
The wine splotches eventually fade out
after the 5th new leaf.
It is totally drk green on the 6th leaf.

Thanx.