Log in

View Full Version : Not Ice Cream


sunfish
06-25-2011, 11:49 AM
After looking at other pix of Ice Cream bananas.I can pretty well say this isn't Ice Cream.Any idea what it is ? The fruit do not turn blue and it has persistent male flowers.

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture194-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture194-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture197.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture197.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture196.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture196.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture195.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture195.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

palmtree
06-25-2011, 01:17 PM
It kind of looks like Cavendish to me

ron_mcb
06-25-2011, 02:08 PM
[QUOTE=sunfish;166419]After looking at other pix of Ice Cream bananas.I can pretty well say this isn't Ice Cream.Any idea what it is ? The fruit do not turn blue and it has persistent male flowers.

is that the same one from another thread where i said it looked like an fhia hybrid and not ice cream because of the flowers? there is a fhia database page set up by unibap (or whatever the current name)that goes into detail about how to i.d different fhia cultivars. at the flowering fruiting stage... i glanced at it once before but not for long since i never owned any until just recently.

sunfish
06-25-2011, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=sunfish;166419]After looking at other pix of Ice Cream bananas.I can pretty well say this isn't Ice Cream.Any idea what it is ? The fruit do not turn blue and it has persistent male flowers.

is that the same one from another thread where i said it looked like an fhia hybrid and not ice cream because of the flowers? there is a fhia database page set up by unibap (or whatever the current name)that goes into detail about how to i.d different fhia cultivars. at the flowering fruiting stage... i glanced at it once before but not for long since i never owned any until just recently.

Not sure this one was in another thread. I'll take a look at the unibap

Dalmatiansoap
06-25-2011, 02:20 PM
What about Nam Wah? If its FHIA looks like nr.21?

sunfish
06-25-2011, 02:42 PM
What about Nam Wah? If its FHIA looks like nr.21?

Don't think so but who knows

Dalmatiansoap
06-25-2011, 02:47 PM
http://www.honduras.com/fhia/fhia21b.jpg

ron_mcb
06-25-2011, 03:03 PM
here maybe this will help?? maybe everyone will have a different opinion??

http://bananas.bioversityinternational.org/files/files/pdf/publications/guia_fhia_en.pdf

sunfish
06-25-2011, 03:07 PM
here maybe this will help?? maybe everyone will have a different opinion??

http://bananas.bioversityinternational.org/files/files/pdf/publications/guia_fhia_en.pdf

I was just looking at that site. Still have no idea.Which one do you think it may be ?

ron_mcb
06-25-2011, 03:31 PM
I was just looking at that site. Still have know idea.Which one do you think it may be ?
well it has a whole wealth of information.. it shows how some may have blotches on the p stem or elsewhere and talks about the bunch position in relation to pseudo stem. it shows the male bud shape... heart shaped or ovoid...the color or tinge on the bracts..some of the rachis are bare and some have persistent flowers that stay adhered. some of the rachis have curvature. some of the petiole chanels are more open than others. color of the bud..the appearance of the fruit.. they even show the way the flower bracts lift on one cultivar as opposed to the other.

there is a lot of info to get lost in but if its an fhia it can be narrowed down by using all this info im sure.

Nicolas Naranja
06-25-2011, 10:09 PM
It looks a lot like agristarts Misi Luki, how tall is it?

sunfish
06-25-2011, 10:21 PM
It looks a lot like agristarts Misi Luki, how tall is it?

It's about 8' p-stem

Nicolas Naranja
06-25-2011, 11:14 PM
It's about 8' p-stem


There goes my theory, although I guess they could be shorter in California?

sunfish
06-25-2011, 11:31 PM
There goes my theory, although I guess they could be shorter in California?

I've seen the ML at Encanto farms .They are much taller than this banana

sunfish
06-26-2011, 11:04 AM
Ice Cream ? pup

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture213-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture213-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


fhia-17 pup not a match

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/?action=view&amp;current=Picture211-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/Picture211-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

venturabananas
06-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Where did you get this plant, Tony? That might narrow down the possibilities. I think I recall you saying it was from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and sold as an Ice Cream. Is that right?

And have you eaten fruit off this one before? If so, what are they like? Flavor, peel thickness, firm vs. soft, etc.

sunfish
06-26-2011, 12:49 PM
Where did you get this plant, Tony? That might narrow down the possibilities. I think I recall you saying it was from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and sold as an Ice Cream. Is that right?

And have you eaten fruit off this one before? If so, what are they like? Flavor, peel thickness, firm vs. soft, etc.

It was Home Depot or Lowe's don't remember which one. This was my first banana purchased more than 3 years ago. I have eaten the fruit but that was two years ago.All I remember is they were good and not as sweet as the Namwah's. Imay have pix of the ripe fruit.

sunfish
06-26-2011, 01:04 PM
I must have deleted the pic of ripe fruit. Here is the first bunch to come from this plant.There pretty close to being ripe.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=21303&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21303&ppuser=2868)

venturabananas
06-27-2011, 01:26 AM
Seems like most of the bananas I've seen for sale at Home Depot or Lowe's near me in Ventura are from La Verne Nursery. The varieties they list as producing don't seem likely to be what you have (Cardaba, Goldfinger, dwarf Cavendish, Ice Cream, Manzano, Mysore, and Rajapuri). Of course, what they have and sell as Ice Cream could be wrong. And if they aren't TCing themselves and getting their plants from Agristarts or somewhere else, the mixup might have happened before they even got the plants. Oh, it's all so confusing with 1000 cultivars and misidentifications rampant!

sunfish
06-27-2011, 07:54 AM
Seems like most of the bananas I've seen for sale at Home Depot or Lowe's near me in Ventura are from La Verne Nursery. The varieties they list as producing don't seem likely to be what you have (Cardaba, Goldfinger, dwarf Cavendish, Ice Cream, Manzano, Mysore, and Rajapuri). Of course, what they have and sell as Ice Cream could be wrong. And if they aren't TCing themselves and getting their plants from Agristarts or somewhere else, the mixup might have happened before they even got the plants. Oh, it's all so confusing with 1000 cultivars and misidentifications rampant!

Next time I visit Lowe's or HD I'll look for a tag.I think you are right it is La Verne. Thanks

ron_mcb
07-01-2011, 02:03 PM
what do the pups look like on this banana???

sunfish
07-01-2011, 02:40 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43992&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43992&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43991&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43991&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43990&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43990&ppuser=2868)

kcj1219
07-01-2011, 10:38 PM
Wow! That looks very similar to the pup I just pulled off a pair of plants that I bought a week ago. It was marked musa siam gold. Which I have failed to find anything on it that plant. I bgought them because I figured they were mismarked and were orinoco or ice cream. I'm doing this from my phone so I have the link to the pic below.

Banana Gallery - IMG_20110627_183830 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43916&ppuser=5584)

Pic of the plants the pup came from.
Banana Gallery - IMG_20110624_175834 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43849&ppuser=5584)

sunfish
07-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Maybe some day we will find out what they are.

venturabananas
07-02-2011, 12:53 AM
Pretty pups. It's clearly not a Cavendish variety, given the lack of maroon splotches on the leaves. Based on my survey of pups in my yard, it could be just about anything with some B genes. That narrows things down to 500+ cultivars!

sunfish
07-02-2011, 01:09 AM
Pretty pups. It's clearly not a Cavendish variety, given the lack of maroon splotches on the leaves. Based on my survey of pups in my yard, it could be just about anything with some B genes. That narrows things down to 500+ cultivars!

Thanks a bunch

venturabananas
07-02-2011, 01:20 AM
No, thank you for the bunch! :bananas_b

sunfish
07-02-2011, 10:50 AM
Ice Cream ?
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=43990&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=43990&ppuser=2868)[/QUOTE]

Mona Lisa ? They look the same.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44020&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44020&ppuser=2868)

ron_mcb
07-02-2011, 11:25 AM
the plants overall appearance does look like the "misi luki" that a few people are growing. venturas bananas really had me thinking this may be "misi luki"
the male flowers stuck to the bract on sunfish's plant (truly persistent??) that is whats troubling me in forming an opinion.. checked the "misi luki" on some other sites and it looks like some pics show mostly non persistent male flowers and a few pics show male flower with a tendency to be persistent.

since i am supposed to have the exact same clone.. i will grow it out and see if i get anything different in my area.. i can only guess based on photographs since i have never grown it.

i plan on getting lots of pics as this plant grows here in my climate.. the same plant grown here may not have the same colors as in cali.. still not ruling out any of the fhia cultivars.

i guess im back to being the grower of mystery bananas?

sunfish
07-12-2011, 08:41 AM
updated pic's

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44253&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44253&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44254&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44254&ppuser=2868)

sunfish
07-29-2011, 06:25 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44657&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44657&ppuser=2868)

Gabe15
07-29-2011, 06:46 PM
It is not any FHIA cultivar or Cavendish.

It could be either the common "Misi Luki" in the US (which is not the real 'Misi Luki'), or it actually could be an 'Ice Cream' or 'Namwah'. Persistent flowers are not always consistent on the same clone in different conditions. The reason it's a bit confusing is because I'm starting to think the 'Ice Cream' commonly sold on the mainland is not the same clone as in Hawaii (which I am used to seeing). The mainland 'Ice Cream' seems to be some type of Pisang Awak (Namwah), but the Hawaii form is a little different in the fruit shape and bud shape and color. However, even the Hawaii 'Ice Cream' seems to be closely related to Pisang Awak types. The waxy bluish color of the fruit on 'Ice Cream' is common, but not a reliable way to ID as it is variable depending on conditions, almost totally absent in certain situations. Height is also a very variable trait depending on conditions and age of the plant.

So my best guess would either be that you do have the 'Ice Cream' clone as is known on the mainland (not the Hawaii clone), or the Agri-Starts "Misi Luki". They both seem to be different varieties of Pisang Awak, so are very similar. I have seen what appears to be the Hawaii type clone of 'Ice Cream' in California at Quail Botanic Gardens, but it does not appear to be your plant. But if you post more photos as the fruit matures, we might be able to narrow it down.

sunfish
07-29-2011, 06:50 PM
It is not any FHIA cultivar or Cavendish.

It could be either the common "Misi Luki" in the US (which is not the real 'Misi Luki'), or it actually could be an 'Ice Cream' or 'Namwah'. Persistent flowers are not always consistent on the same clone in different conditions. The reason it's a bit confusing is because I'm starting to think the 'Ice Cream' commonly sold on the mainland is not the same clone as in Hawaii (which I am used to seeing). The mainland 'Ice Cream' seems to be some type of Pisang Awak (Namwah), but the Hawaii form is a little different in the fruit shape and bud shape and color. However, even the Hawaii 'Ice Cream' seems to be closely related to Pisang Awak types. The waxy bluish color of the fruit on 'Ice Cream' is common, but not a reliable way to ID as it is variable depending on conditions, almost totally absent in certain situations. Height is also a very variable trait depending on conditions and age of the plant.

So my best guess would either be that you do have the 'Ice Cream' clone as is known on the mainland (not the Hawaii clone), or the Agri-Starts "Misi Luki". They both seem to be different varieties of Pisang Awak, so are very similar. I have seen what appears to be the Hawaii type clone of 'Ice Cream' in California at Quail Botanic Gardens, but it does not appear to be your plant. But if you post more photos as the fruit matures, we might be able to narrow it down.

Thank You Sir

venturabananas
07-29-2011, 10:39 PM
If my memory serves me correctly, your Ice Cream fruit look just like those Andy (BadPun) has hanging right now. I bet Agristarts or someone doing TC screwed up the ID and so most bananas being sold in the US as "Ice Cream" are not the real deal ("Ney Mannan" subgroup). Like Gabe, I've seen the real deal at Quail Gardens. The fruits of the US "Ice Cream" that Tony and others have look more pointy than the Namwahs and Misi Luki I've seen. Maybe another cultivar in this group, like Gabe said.

kcj1219
08-01-2011, 09:06 AM
I'm not giving away/selling any pups until I know for sure what they are first. No mislabeled nanners coming from me. I have a corm by itself from my mystery plants that keeps popping up pups that I keep potting..... now its just a waiting game.

sunfish
08-01-2011, 10:02 AM
I'm not giving away/selling any pups until I know for sure what they are first. No mislabeled nanners coming from me. I have a corm by itself from my mystery plants that keeps popping up pups that I keep potting..... now its just a waiting game.


You may be sitting on those plants for a long time. If I sell unknowns I just let t people know I'm not sure of the variety.

kcj1219
08-01-2011, 10:28 AM
You may be sitting on those plants for a long time. If I sell unknowns I just let t people know I'm not sure of the variety.

Very true Tony. I would be sitting on them awhile. Not literally of course...lol. I will just sell them as "I will let you know what type they are when I find out"

sunfish
08-01-2011, 11:11 AM
Very true Tony. I would be sitting on them awhile. Not literally of course...lol. I will just sell them as "I will let you know what type they are when I find out"

I've got two different ones that have flowered and set fruit twice. Still don't know what they are. As long as they grow and have good fruit.

kcj1219
08-01-2011, 11:26 AM
I've got two different ones that have flowered and set fruit twice. Still don't know what they are. As long as they grow and have good fruit.

That's a great way to look at it. Maybe you should just call it Musa Blue Sunfish and give it out with that name.

sunfish
08-03-2011, 10:15 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44812&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44812&ppuser=2868)

momoese
08-03-2011, 11:44 AM
I've grown the real Ice Cream / Blue Java from Hawaii. The fruits had a very noticeable silver blue color on the skins.

sunfish
08-03-2011, 11:58 AM
I've grown the real Ice Cream / Blue Java from Hawaii. The fruits had a very noticeable silver blue color on the skins.

Someone near me is selling blue java they obtained from Quail Gardens.Now if I only had more room I would pick one up.

kcj1219
08-03-2011, 12:35 PM
I'd go for it!

sunfish
08-03-2011, 12:39 PM
I'd go for it!

Not if you had as many plants as I have

kcj1219
08-03-2011, 12:46 PM
That is true you do have a lot. You can get it and send it my way... just kidding.

sunfish
09-14-2011, 06:37 PM
Finally

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=45694&ppuser=2868><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=45694&size=1 border=0></a>

Clare_CA
10-17-2011, 01:55 PM
Great thread, Tony. I think one of my bananas that is labeled as 'Ice Cream' came from Home Depot too. Check out the thread I just posted which has pictures of the two here on the Identification forum.

sunfish
06-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Not Mona Lisa

<a href="http://s950.photobucket.com/user/musanamwah/media/013-7.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/musanamwah/013-7.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 013-7.jpg"/></a>

caliboy1994
07-19-2013, 07:43 PM
Real Ice Cream going in Santa Clara.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/999032_10100099490901304_1347949944_n.jpg

sunfish
07-19-2013, 08:59 PM
Real Ice Cream going in Santa Clara.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/999032_10100099490901304_1347949944_n.jpg

From taste reports the Not Ice Cream taste better :woohoonaner::0519::goteam:

caliboy1994
07-30-2013, 10:06 PM
From taste reports the Not Ice Cream taste better :woohoonaner::0519::goteam:

I'm more growing of just to have it. I also have Misi Luki Namwah growing up there.