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View Full Version : Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"


blatta
06-21-2011, 02:01 PM
I've been growing quite a lot of Musa "burmese blue" this year, all from seed. The germination rate was very good. These are all growing nicely. As theyre getting bigger, the variation is getting very pronounced.

This is one of my biggest ones, red-green stemmed, red midrib, not waxy pseudostem, and large wide leaves. There are what I considered 'normal', and what I was expecting them to look like.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue019.jpg
Another:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue001.jpg
More photos of slightly smaller plants (grown indoors)
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue011.jpg

However, many look a bit different. The look quite a bit paler, the leaves are more narrow and thinner, with more tapered leaes, a little wax on the pseudostem. I havent got so many photos of these though
this is one that got a bit bleached in the sun- theyre normally more of a pastel green:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue005.jpg
Compared to another:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue021.jpg
More photos of different plants showing quite extreme examples, these 3 were grown in the same conditions, the one on the right is of the paler type.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue022.jpg

There are a few which are even more extreme, this one has really long, narrow leaves:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue016.jpg

Lastly, these ones are just weird little runts. These are about 5 months old now, at first they were growing incredible slowly. The leaves are quite thin and delicate, but they look quite colourful at least:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue020.jpg.

Is all this variation normal with seed grown Burmese blue? Anyone seen 'real' Burmese blue plants to confirm theyre right?

I dont really know what Musa 'burmese blue' is. Supposedly a type of Musa itinerans, but does this mean a population? a cultivar? Are they supposed to grow true from seed? Whatever they are, they're quite nice plants, and i will keep many of them. But so much variation would make identification a bit of a headache.

cheers,

Andrew

jmoore
06-22-2011, 04:10 AM
Hi

Not having seen these plants in the wild I couldn't comment on what they 'should' look like, but I suspect that what you are seeing is a result of cross pollination with another species of banana resulting in hybridisation of some of your seeds. I suspect that some are true burmese blue, but others are not.

They are very different, some seem to be more vigorous than others and there is a dramatic difference in size and colour.

I really like the one with the red psuedostem by the way.

Ueberwinden
06-24-2011, 02:12 PM
I'm not familiar with the blue Burmese so I can not speak as an authority of that variety of banana. What I can speak about is plants that are grown from seed and the variants that you will find as a result. I dont know of any plants that are 100% true to parent from seed, which is the reason for vegetative propagation, to get actual DNA. I can also tell you that in other plants flower color is altered depending on light intensities. What is red in one place could bloom pink in others, I know this is true in plumeria. You could also have plants that are genetically weak thus long and stretched leaves that are pale in color. My suggestion is to grow them our in the same conditions and be sure that they have adequate nutrients. I wouldn't pile on the fertilizers to try to boost growth. They will only uptake what they can use. My personal method is to use organic humus, leaf molds, and manures in moderation. That way the source of nutrients is natural, and similar to what the banana would encounter in nature. Good luck and keep in touch. Michael

canadianplant
07-05-2011, 09:22 PM
That is really interesting....

I managed to get some seedlings, 2 seeds outta 5 sprouted so far. Ill have to see if I notice any variation.

Where did you get your seeds from?

blatta
08-01-2011, 06:47 PM
6 weeks later...

The "runts" are doing well, and looking quite spectacular. They're still alot smaller than they should be, but are doing well, standing up on their own.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue023.jpg
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue024.jpg
One strange thing I have noticed is that these small red ones produce droplets of sticky liquid. There are no insects feeding on the plant, I can quite see why it does it.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue025.jpg
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue026.jpg

The long leaves one does not look so extreme now...(on the left)
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue027.jpg
It's leaves go back from the petiole, a bit like M. balbasiana
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue028.jpg
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue029.jpg

It has just started producing a pup now, I should soon know if the plant lives up to its name, and travels.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue030.jpg

A few photos of leaf undersides (This is still the one with long, slender leaves)
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue031.jpg
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue032.jpg

This is a different plant, but very similar, except the leaves are a little wider, and blush red when new
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue033.jpg
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue034.jpg

Stem, a little waxy.
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/frogs_of_the_world/banana/musa_itinerans_burmeseblue035.jpg

I still have many more to photograph....

jmoore
08-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Looking really good :woohoonaner:

I'm not sure if Burmese Blue produces pups that are a long way from the mother.

Mine has produced 6 pups very close to the mother plant.

blatta
08-03-2011, 11:07 AM
I was expecting them to travel, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them dont!

Do you have any photos of yours?

I have many off-types going spare, there is more variation than I have space for!

I will be interesting to see whether there is variation in coping with dormancy over winter.

Anyway, here's a couple which were planted outside back in April. Its the one with a red pseudostem (I still consider this one as 'normal', although I dont really know what normal is), and the one with the pink midribs. Other plants in the photo include ensete ventricosum, Musa formosana, Canna etc.

The cool, bright conditions of an English summer make the burmese blue look quite different from the ones grown indoors, but they are growing well; comparable to basjoo and sikkimensis.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44820&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44820&ppuser=8826)

jmoore
08-03-2011, 01:38 PM
The photo isn't vey good and doesn't show the mother, but shows the pups

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=44832&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=44832&ppuser=4043)

blatta
08-03-2011, 02:19 PM
That looks amazing! I think mine are a few months behind, quite a few have the first signs of a pup or two forming, they're about 6 or 7 months old.

jmoore
08-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Yes I was a little amazed, there is 6 in total now. The mother germinated In September last year.

canadianplant
04-08-2012, 06:57 AM
I havnt been on here for a while, so I apoligize if this is a bit late.

I managed to germinate 2 M inrerans (burmese blue). One of the 3 species of banana ive managed to germinate. THe 2 seem slightly different. One having the narrow leaves you mentioned, and one with a very, VERY slight red tinge where the leaf attatches to the psuedostem.

The red tinged one, has wider leaves. They are bold are molted with black blotches along the leaf stem. THey are small still, so I cant say anything till after the summer, when they get some growth..

Clinton3666
09-02-2012, 08:15 PM
I have 1-year-old Burmese Blue grew well and were cold-hardy to zone 9.

I had both varaties of this specie, some like Zebra/Blood banana, some were green allover.

Have to see & wait until they flower & fruit in 2-3 years time.