View Full Version : My ''Tall Orinoco''!
Kostas
05-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Hello!
I finally managed to get me an ''Orinoco'' pup from the old, established mat in Athens,i had shown you and asked about before in this thread (http://www.bananas.org/f2/orinoco-dwarf-orinoco-mature-height-12073.html)! :woohoonaner:
I tracked the caretaker of the hospital's garden and kindly asked him for a pup as i wouldnt like to just take it on my own. He was very kind and agreed and we had a very nice talk in the meantime! He told me the story of the mat,which dates back to the late 1980s,early 1990s. It turned out he was and is an avid gardener and he was the one who purchased the original small pup the whole mat developed from! He bought it for himself and as he was having pup on his plant,he decided to plant one at the hospital's garden...and look how big and nice it is today:woohoonaner: He doesnt know the variety this mat is(but from what was said in the older thread,its ''Tall Orinoco'',unless of course someone says the opposite)but he gave me 3 very nice pups!!!:woohoonaner: I planted the tallest one at my father's office and gifted the second taller one to a close friend in the neighborhood who misses the bananas from her home country(Mexico) but never thought they could grow here! She was extremely excited to see me entering the door with a big bareroot pup and cant believe she now actually has a banana in her garden!
The third pup is actually a 5cm corm diameter pup with only dried scale leafs on it(basically a ball of corm covered with dried scale leafs,with the newest one being green). I potted this one to hopefully give me a nice banana as well to gift to yet another person:woohoonaner:
Here is a photo of the tallest pup planted at my father's office!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/IMG_0204.jpg
I cant wait for it to root well and produce new leafs!!!!!!!:woohoonaner:
Do you see any disease signs on it or are its leafs like that just due to weather factors? It overwintered with these leafs in Athens,where bananas in protected locations,like its mat is grown at,dont usually loose their leafs.
Thank you very much in advance!
I hope you liked it!:)
Alexander
05-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Well there are several bananas you can grow in Greece, M. basjoo, M. sikkimensis, that M. Orinoco and probably some other ones from China.
Alexander
Kostas
05-06-2011, 03:18 AM
Yeap,i have come to know that through this site! Even in the cold suburbs of Athens like Melissia,my Ice Cream passed the winter unprotected with only leaf burn and the pseudostem mostly intact!
Looking forward to see my Tall Orinoco and other varieties grow big!!!!
Kostas
06-20-2011, 02:15 AM
Here is an updated photo of my Tall Orinoco! Its now a little more than 1 month after getting it as a bareroot pup and only a week ago did this new leaf start peeking out!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/22062753.jpg
I took this photo 2 days ago and today must be finishing unfolding its leaf(i need to go check). I will take an updated photo when its fully open and show you! :)
Kostas
11-21-2011, 06:20 PM
Here is an updated photo of my Musa ''Orinoco'' seen in the above photos. I moved it to Pyrgos at the beginning of fall as it only grew 2-3 leafs at its previous position the whole summer!!! It was getting enough water and nutrients and generally didnt like it. Well,after the move,its growing at a great pace and seems to like it there a lot! It has a lean towards the building which developed from the prevailing winds,while it was still rooting,as this is the north side of my property. Here is a photo from October 29th! :woohoonaner:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3139a.jpg
I plan to move it again this spring to another patio i will be opening and planting another cv at this location but i am not sure what i want to have in this area yet...I may even end up leaving it there...
caliboy1994
11-21-2011, 06:23 PM
Very nice! Orinoco is the most common banana here in the San Fernando Valley.
Kostas
11-21-2011, 06:36 PM
Thank you Andreas! :) Its the most common banana in Greece as well although you dont commonly see bananas in Greece! In Pyrgos,many are growing ''Dwarf Orinoco'' but there are plenty ''Tall Orinoco'' as well. At this side part of the country,they are pretty common and its great to see huge,all year fruit bearing Tall Orinoco mats while driving around!
caliboy1994
11-21-2011, 07:07 PM
Thank you Andreas! :) Its the most common banana in Greece as well although you dont commonly see bananas in Greece! In Pyrgos,many are growing ''Dwarf Orinoco'' but there are plenty ''Tall Orinoco'' as well. At this side part of the country,they are pretty common and its great to see huge,all year fruit bearing Tall Orinoco mats while driving around!
The valley here is practically crawling with bananas. I've seen huge mats of Orinoco growing in peoples' yards. There aren't many banana plants in my area though, probably because of the high winds we get.
I've been to Greece before. It's really nice. I also happen to have Greek blood in me. I hope to return someday!
Kostas
11-22-2011, 01:14 AM
Pyrgos is thankfully spared from the high winds usually and thanks to the tall trees of my area,banana mats dont usually get any damage from the winds and nobody props his bunches here! They are left on their own...and succeed!
Its great to hear you have been to Greece and have Greek blood in you! Greece is nice and climate wise,southern Greece is satisfactory for growing a great variety of tropical plants but i sure wouldnt mind living in a tropical country! :ha:
caliboy1994
11-22-2011, 02:40 AM
The climate of Greece and Southern California are very similar too. I remember that when I went to Greece in the summer the cicadas were so loud!
Kostas
11-23-2011, 11:23 AM
Yeah,the cicadas scream summer here! Its nice to hear them in the heat of the day!
I miss summer!!!!!!!
Kostas
11-29-2011, 05:09 AM
Here is an updated photo of my ''Tall Orinoco'' taken the past weekend! Its starting to look beautiful! :)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3225a.jpg
Kostas
05-30-2012, 05:14 AM
Here is an updated photo of my ''Tall Orinoco'' i took 1 and a half weeks ago,when i was last time in Pyrgos!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3459a.jpg
It lost its leaf blades and petioles last winter from the unusual cold we got in Pyrgos,down to -2,5C for a single night coupled with frost,but didnt get any pseudostem damage and resumed growth relatively early this spring,though after my ''Kandrian'',probably due to the winter shade place its growing at. It has already grown 3 leafs though and seems to be doing excellent too!
Looking forward to see it grow big! :woohoonaner:
kaczercat
06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
Your mid ribs are really red! Mine have no red, hmmm. also do you have any pups on yours?
venturabananas
06-18-2012, 08:47 PM
Your mid ribs are really red! Mine have no red, hmmm.
Don't read too much into the color of the midribs. Midrib color changes regularly on my Orinoco and others. Sometimes pure green, other times very red, like in Kostas' photo. From what I can tell, temperature, water, and nutrition can all affect the mid-rib color. Especially on ABB varieties.
caliboy1994
06-18-2012, 08:54 PM
Isn't Orinoco ABB?
venturabananas
06-18-2012, 08:58 PM
Isn't Orinoco ABB?
Good catch. That was a typo.
Kostas
06-19-2012, 04:56 PM
Hi Matt :)
This leaf is the only one i think to have such a bright red midrib. The midribs are usually a bone like brownish yellow that looks pretty good! As Mark said,various varieties can get red midribs for various reasons. Red midribs are said to be a sign of deficiency(i think Nitrogen but i dont remember well) too in some cases .
Also,remember that sun plays a huge role in color development and thus the same varieties can look very different depending on the environmental conditions. I can see the differences on my bananas too. They are much more colorful in certain periods and plainer on others,depending on the weather i think but i dont remember which periods make for the most color in Pyrgos. In Melissia,my potted bananas are most colorful during the heat and dry weather of the summer.
My ''Tall Orinoco'' hasnt pupped yet.
Kostas
07-19-2012, 08:41 AM
Just a quick update to show you a photo of my "Tall Orinoco" taken at the end of June!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3524a.jpg
Kostas
10-10-2012, 07:03 AM
Here are a few photos of how my ''Tall Orinoco'' looks now!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3973a.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3974a.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_3975a.jpg
Please excuse the Syagrus romanzoffiana leafs blocking the view. I hope you like it! :)
austinl01
10-10-2012, 08:21 AM
It's growing very nicely! It's probably getting a nice big corm forming too.
Kostas
10-27-2013, 07:01 PM
Thank you very much Austin :)
My Musa 'Tall Orinoco' which I got from a local hospital as an unknown variety,flowered somewhen this August and seems not to actually be an Orinoco as I first though. I had asked for help with ID of the mat and none challenged the Orinoco ID so I had though that's what it is but seeing Mitchel's Texas banana thread with large bananas and how much smaller but full mine are and the mother mat's have been,it must actually be a Pisang Awak or something else. Here are some photos of it now!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/null_zps6cc15f38.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/null_zpse5b14ba3.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/null_zps7bd45216.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/null_zps276f4248.jpg
What do you think these are?
Thank you very much in advance! :)
Kostas
10-31-2013, 08:36 PM
This is the best photo of the bunch I managed to take!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/null_zps6b7c8ac9.jpg
I hope it helps for the ID :)
venturabananas
10-31-2013, 08:45 PM
They don't really look like Namwah (Pisang Awak) or Orinoco to me. They seem too angular and not waxy enough for a Namwah variety and they seem too small and tightly packed for Orinoco. Not sure what they are.
Kostas
10-31-2013, 09:19 PM
Yes,they are exactly as you say and they appear. These are small bananas and they were produced during August with the most leafs the pseudostem can hold,so supposedly under favorable conditions.
What would help in IDing the variety?
venturabananas
10-31-2013, 11:06 PM
What would help in IDing the variety?
Having someone who knows more than I do look at it!
Seriously though, detailed photos of the flowers, petioles, fruit, counts of fingers per hand, peel thickness, etc. Even with all that, I think I'm out of my depth here. When I look at it, it doesn't remind me of any variety I know.
Kostas
11-01-2013, 05:45 AM
Thank you very much Mark! I never thought a variety I got from a 30year old clump at a local hospital would be that unusual and difficult to ID,I thought it would be as common as it gets! So I am very pleasantly surprised that its something you have never seen before! :)
I have posted detailed photos of the flowers at the thread I link to at the first post of this one as I have seen the mother mat flower a few times before. I will take detailed photos of the other things you mention when I get to Pyrgos again and when the bunch is ready,probably in December.
Thank you very much again! :)
Kostas
03-09-2014, 06:05 PM
Harvested Musa "Orinoco"(?)(locally obtained and doesn't seem like Orinoco) last weekend :) This is the first bunch of this mat and its pseudostem broke from strong winds in the fall.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_1817_zps25586544.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Pyrgos%20Garden/IMG_1817_zps25586544.jpg.html)
The bunch was left to overwinter laying on a pathway stone,on the ground,and it filled considerably during the last months. I found and ate the first yellow from it,so I harvested the bunch and finally cleared the walkway! The bunch weighed 8,8kg,it's certainly not as filled up and big as it could be but think its quite satisfying for a bunch maturing over winter in the ground! :)
Here are some pictures of it!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/C40C5FCB-FFC2-4C91-B396-2272587BA5D0_zpsqj9npncx.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/C40C5FCB-FFC2-4C91-B396-2272587BA5D0_zpsqj9npncx.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/D397F935-7285-4611-8B25-66E0CA00CCA2_zpspac9fpus.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/D397F935-7285-4611-8B25-66E0CA00CCA2_zpspac9fpus.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/C23F74D8-9C13-433C-ACA7-AF8E5AE8BF7C_zpscz5now6u.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/C23F74D8-9C13-433C-ACA7-AF8E5AE8BF7C_zpscz5now6u.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/E133E99F-29E7-4C3D-8723-610F06D6E15B_zpslhqnn1dm.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/E133E99F-29E7-4C3D-8723-610F06D6E15B_zpslhqnn1dm.jpg.html)
What variety do you think this one really is? The taste was sweet with a little sour,flesh white. Center was slightly hard in parts but melted in the mouth to normal taste. Maybe that's what I hear as "corky" center? Anyway,good overall,can't wait for the rest to mature!!!! :woohoonaner:
venturabananas
03-10-2014, 12:45 AM
I don't see anything that screams "not Orinoco". What characteristics do you see that don't match Orinoco or some other Bluggoe variety?
Kostas
03-10-2014, 02:56 AM
Thank you very much for your reply Mark! :)
See your older posts higher up this page. The finger size is small(check the picture with my hand for scale,compared to Dwarf Cavendish bananas,they are much wider, bulkier and a little longer, at least from the ones i bought),the number of fingers high and the single,ripe banana on the bunch was bright yellow and soft,not orange(will wait for more to ripen to check the ripe color though). I think it does seem like a Bluggoe variety of some kind though. What do you think?
:)
venturabananas
03-10-2014, 11:46 AM
OK, yes, I was thinking vaguely, along the lines of Orinoco is just another name for Bluggoe (but that's not true) when I wrote that last comment. I'd agree, some sort of Bluggoe, but probably not the cultivar Orinoco, which at least here in Southern California has much less compact bunches than yours. Post a photo of a cross section through a ripe fruit when you have a ripe one.
Kostas
04-01-2014, 02:54 PM
Thank you Mark :) I finally found some time to finish uploading some photos of a ripe finger i took a couple weeks ago. This finger was a little below average size but one of the bigger ones that have ripened so far from this bunch.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/4B75CFE7-E182-4D15-99AB-0CCF31693F66_zpsfmzznuxq.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/4B75CFE7-E182-4D15-99AB-0CCF31693F66_zpsfmzznuxq.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/86162E9F-7980-4850-B13A-B7680AA74952_zpsqzrofqqw.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/86162E9F-7980-4850-B13A-B7680AA74952_zpsqzrofqqw.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/286AD5DE-6661-4633-9969-047C0FCBCD0D_zpspvvoeexz.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/286AD5DE-6661-4633-9969-047C0FCBCD0D_zpspvvoeexz.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/18E65E2C-2971-4912-8F4F-D2E2D68F341B_zps6amxr8lr.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/18E65E2C-2971-4912-8F4F-D2E2D68F341B_zps6amxr8lr.jpg.html)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/C3B5A81A-88E4-48D7-BEE1-925E19830158_zpskdv2ndfz.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/C3B5A81A-88E4-48D7-BEE1-925E19830158_zpskdv2ndfz.jpg.html)
Taste was sweet with some sour mixed in and texture really airy,like a mousse. This finger needed maybe 3 more days to mature more evenly,some parts were great and some needed a few more days. What variety could this one be?
I have only had 5 of the tiniest bananas ripen and 2 of a tad below average size. No more bananas have ripened during the last 2 weeks,still waiting on the rest and most are much bigger than the ones i ate so far. Here is a photo of the bunch taken about a week ago:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/2AAC114D-9C6B-49A6-9181-045529FCB576_zpswlklzuya.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/2AAC114D-9C6B-49A6-9181-045529FCB576_zpswlklzuya.jpg.html)
Still green and i am waiting them out.... :)
venturabananas
04-01-2014, 11:30 PM
Your description of the flavor and especially the texture are consistent with some Bluggoe varieties, including Orinoco, though this one does not look like Orinoco, as we've discussed.
Kostas
04-02-2014, 03:16 AM
Thank you very much Mark! So we are pretty certain on the subgroup. Is there any way we can put a name on it?
venturabananas
04-02-2014, 12:22 PM
Thank you very much Mark! So we are pretty certain on the subgroup. Is there any way we can put a name on it?
I don't recognize it. You could search through all Bluggoe subgroup bananas on the MGIS database and see if you can find a match.
Kostas
04-02-2014, 12:51 PM
Thanks a lot Mark,I will do! :)
Its nice it turned out to be something out of the ordinary! :woohoonaner:
pnwpdf
04-12-2014, 06:17 PM
Very interesting. I'm glad you got it to fruit. I wonder why it's taking so long to ripen them though?
keikikid
04-13-2014, 02:19 AM
I'm totally new at this, but the fruit look like Saba, which does take forever to ripen!
venturabananas
04-13-2014, 11:35 AM
I'm totally new at this, but the fruit look like Saba, which does take forever to ripen!
The compact bunch does look like the Saba, but the fruit seem too angular for Saba to me, but maybe.
keikikid
04-13-2014, 06:21 PM
The compact bunch does look like the Saba, but the fruit seem too angular for Saba to me, but maybe.
Fruit from the dense Saba bunches I've had were very angular, even rectangular in cross section. Most had the chewy core but a wonderful flavor, with sweet/tart to compensate for the uneven texture. I've never had Orinoco, so can't compare, and it will be a long time 'til my Dwarf Orinoco keiki is producing!
venturabananas
04-13-2014, 10:54 PM
Fruit from the dense Saba bunches I've had were very angular, even rectangular in cross section. Most had the chewy core but a wonderful flavor, with sweet/tart to compensate for the uneven texture. I've never had Orinoco, so can't compare, and it will be a long time 'til my Dwarf Orinoco keiki is producing!
Yes, rectangular in cross section is right for Saba, but they don't typically have the pointy ends that these ones have, and some of these are more triangular in cross section.
keikikid
04-14-2014, 12:37 AM
Yes, rectangular in cross section is right for Saba, but they don't typically have the pointy ends that these ones have, and some of these are more triangular in cross section.
Thanks for the great tip! You are absolutely right about the pointy ends. Is that typical of Orinoco? Oddly, I have a triangular cross sectioned Saba on my kitchen counter right now, and it sure is blunt ended!
venturabananas
04-14-2014, 12:55 AM
Yes, Orinoco (and more generally, Bluggoe subgroup) bananas have pointy ends.
Hammocked Banana
04-14-2014, 04:45 PM
I think these Kandrian harvested by servatusprime look like your Orinoco/Saba
Kandarian close up
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=55844&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=55844&ppuser=9375)
Harvested Musa "Orinoco"http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Kostas_G/Bananas/C23F74D8-9C13-433C-ACA7-AF8E5AE8BF7C_zpscz5now6u.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Kostas_G/media/Bananas/C23F74D8-9C13-433C-ACA7-AF8E5AE8BF7C_zpscz5now6u.jpg.html)
venturabananas
04-14-2014, 05:05 PM
They sure do.
servatusprime
04-14-2014, 09:25 PM
I think these Kandrian harvested by servatusprime look like your Orinoco/Saba
Well I think they are both in the ABB group. So that might explain some similarities.
Greenie
04-15-2014, 03:33 AM
good job!
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