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DOMinPuna
11-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Since joining this August Group, I had decided I must have an Ae-Ae banana. Today I went to our farmers' market and spoke with several banana growers, both commercial and just plant sellers. Their uniform comment was that Ae-Ae is extremely difficult. The purpose of this thread is to learn if anyone has had a long time experience with Ae-Ae and what you did, or didn't do.

Mahalo!

The Hollyberry Lady
11-14-2010, 04:02 PM
I'm joining this thread because I'm interested to know also...


: )

sandy0225
11-14-2010, 04:23 PM
You wouldn't want to start out with one as your first banana, but so far, I've not had any problems with mine other than spider mites. You have to keep them warm all year, and in well drained soil, and lighter on the fertilizer and water than most bananas.

Gabe15
11-14-2010, 04:45 PM
They are much more picky than most bananas, but under the right conditions they can be just as vigorous as any banana. The Amy Greenwell gardens over in Kona has about 10 stands or so that all look awesome, Ken Love has a very nice one too at the 12 Trees Project on Napo'opo'o road. You may want to contact them and see if they have any tricks.

Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what the "right" conditions are, but it won't hurt to give them the best treatment possible. Some bananas may do ok with casual simple planting, but for the best results with any variety, a hole about 3ft wide and 2-3ft deep should be dug and filled 1/3-1/2 way with a good compost and mixed in really well. They should be well watered of course, and given plenty of sunlight. However, with A'ea'e it's probably best to keep it in a slightly shadier location to avoid burning the white areas of the leaf. However, if you have reliable cloud cover (as in Kona), you can get away with it easier out in the open.

kelehawaii
11-14-2010, 05:48 PM
I have had so-so results with this variety both on O'ahu and here in Windward Big Island. I tried twice in Kahalu'u O'ahu and got one to fruit, put out one or two keikis and then everything died out!

Did the same in Kurtistown here but the plant never even lasted until fruiting.

So, I gave up.

coast crab
11-14-2010, 06:46 PM
I was told they are difficult too, but I haven't found that to the case - so far.

Got mine late summer of '09, and planted it in a shady spot under my big live oak where it would get filtered light throughout the day. I left it in the ground and then we had the coldest, wettest winter we've had in several years, killing all my bananas to the ground. I was sure it was dead but it was one of the first to pop up in the spring and has done really well this summer. We had some really dry weather in October with very low humidity and this caused some ugly brown spotting on the white part of the leaves as Gabe mentioned.

Still keeping my fingers crossed.

Russell

Blake09
11-14-2010, 07:05 PM
Joining the thread to learn too... :)



.

varig8
11-14-2010, 07:24 PM
Aeae is not difficult if you provide the right conditions for them. Having grown them for about 20+ years, here are the basics I have learned along the way. They can be PH sensitive. Provide soil conditions right around 6. They prefer less water than most other varieties, this of course depends on how much water your type of soil retains vs how much water you give them. They will rot if given too much and will not grow with 'wet feet'. They will grow in shade, partial shade, or full sun. Full sun will grow a much sturdier stronger mat, but with that, you will have more browning of the white tissue in its leaves. Aeae will benefit from epsom salts as well as most other bananas and heliconias. Rooting out a new corm is the most difficult part, as can be with most dug up musa corms; very light on the watering, remove any excess leaves. Better to allow the new corm to use its energy into producing new roots than to support soon-to-be non functioning leaves. I recommend starting them out in pots with as much as 80% perlite, and I usually start them out in 100% (very good drainage and lots of aeration to the new roots). Best to purchase a small already rooted potted plant to avoid any re-rooting problems for the novice. Follow these tips and you will have no problems growing Aeae. 1. Do not over water. 2. Do not plant in water retaining soil areas. 3. more sun, stronger plant. 4. Patience Patience Patience.....let them alone and dont 'fuss' with them, I know how many well intentioned over-waterers they are out there in our hobby!! Also depending on the amount of mutant tissue exhibited in the particular plant you start out with-Aeae will have a tendency to produce some all green suckers (who cares about those?), all white suckers (etiolates)-these will die if separated from the mother plant, and will weaken the mother if allowed to continue to grow as they are entirely dependent on its mothers chlorophyll to survive, and the rest with varying degrees of 'attractive' amounts of white tissue. This is the main reason they remain on the more expensive side-they do not produce genetically identical clones from the parent.

varig8
11-14-2010, 08:31 PM
additional information;
Musa 'Ae Ae' - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_%27Ae_Ae%27#Cultivation)

jnstropic
11-14-2010, 10:16 PM
For nearly 50 years I have grown Ae Ae bananas. The plants in my garden today are related to the first plant. This year I gave out 13 pups and saved 6 that flowered this summer. Only 4 were allowed to have fruit. The Ae Ae is strong because it's in full sun. The white parts on the leaf often scorch. The only reason that they are easy to grow for me is that I'm in the right place. They get plenty water and a moderate fertilizing. My soil is not acidic.

I wish that I could learn how to grow tulips. I tried it once. It wasn't worth the time and money for a few tulip flowers. Longwood Garden grows the Ae Ae banana and they might help with ways to grow it in cold areas. I know of two times that Longwood lost the Ae Ae.

The only good grower that I have seen is Greenie in Miami. His pups are strong and he gets a lot of them do to the fertilizes and warm weather.

Magilla Gorilla
11-14-2010, 10:21 PM
I have grown them for several years and have also had great results. I have one mat in front of my house that is in full sun. In one season I got three pups and they have grown nicely. I have another mat with three 15 plus footers and lots of pups (10 plus). This mat is in the shade and the pups have grown slowly. I mulch all my plants heavy and they seem to like it. Don't over water if your soil can't handle it. I apply coffee grinds once a month during April through October for variegation. Lots of controversy. It works for me. I have never lost one in the ground! I lost two in pots at $200 plus dollars each. Rookie move by over watering. Keep em on the dry side especially when they are young.

My biggest plant which is taller than my house is from Troy in Hilo (Novelty). All my others are California grown. The weather is very temperate here in Santa Barbara. Last winter it did get down to 36 one night and they didn't flinch. My Hawaiian Guava from the old Guava plantation in Kauai didn't like that.

Good luck!

coast crab
11-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Guys,

While my plant is in the shade, I still ended up with those ugly brown patches when the humidity levels dropped dramatically. My plant looked great all summer, but I don't think it got enough water when we dried out. I'll be more careful and observent next year.

I do realize that more sun = a stronger plant, but I've seen some really ugly ae-ae's grown that way here. I guess my question is how to find the middle ground? If I had to grow it in full sun and look at those ugly brown patches all summer I don't think I'd bother with it. What would be the point? That certainly isn't attractive.

R

varig8
11-15-2010, 03:38 PM
Coast Crab;
This 'problem' of having the white mutant tissue browning out is inevitable. While the browning and dessication of this white tissue is sped up by growing in full sun, it will happen with age of the leaf no matter what lighting or humidity it is grown in. It can be slowed down by growing in filtered light and humidity but eventually it will still happen. It is the nature of the beast. This tissue has no protection from the harmful rays of the sun because of its lack of chlorophyll. It is inherently weak and is supported solely by the surrounding normal green tissue. Having a plant with more green tissue than white will of course look better than a plant with less green and more white tissue. Each plant will have differing amounts from the next as they are not genetic mutations. Planting in the ground in full sun and having a stronger healthier mat, (albeit a less "attractive" looking mat) will provide the grower with a sustainable mat of Aeae. Then you will have available suckers that can be removed and grown in a more controlled environment where you are able to provide the amount of light and humidity to slow the process of browning out on the leaves. A happy medium would be achieved either by this method of growing it as a containerized specimen, or if you are lucky enough, grown in the ground in an area where the majority of the specific conditions are met. Personally I think that they are most beautiful when grown as a containerized specimen before they grow too large, but this is also temporary as it is its nature to continue to grow into adult stage. If I had only one plant, I would grow it in the ground outside year round if possible. If I grew it in a pot and it died I wouldnt have any back up plants! This is the main reason why I suggested that it be grown in full sun, or at least, in full morning sun, or very bright outside filtered sunlight. If your leaves are exhibiting a disproportionate amount of white vs. green tissue you will have this problem no matter what. So, if you want a plant that doesnt brown out so much, choose a plant as your specimen with a little more green than white. As the leaves age and start to brown out, just cut them off, the plant will continue to grow new leaves to replace the older ones!

varig8
11-15-2010, 04:05 PM
Another suggestion; There are more and more newer varieties of variegated bananas available on the market now. The variegated dwarf Namwah in my opinion is spectacular and outshines the Aeae as far as the variegated patterns it can exhibit. The plant is shorter and its leaves more broad and produced in a rosette, similar to the appearance of a dwarf Cavendish. It suckers freely and will occasionally produce all white leaved plants which will continue to grow by themselves once removed from the parent. The fruit is also equally pleasing in appearance and much sweeter than Aeae. It doesnt grow too large and can be absolutely breathtaking as a containerized specimen. I have also noticed that it does not have the tendency to brown out as much as Aeae even though some of them have far more white tissue than green. I believe this is actually due to this 'white' tissue in Namwah having tiny cells of chlorophyll already present mixed in with this white tissue. As its leaves age, you will notice that they turn slightly more and more light green. You cannot notice this with the newer leaves, they appear clear white. Another variegated banana that is readily available is the Giant Tanna (AKA Tanee, Silver Bluggoe). This variety grows larger than Aeae and depending on the specific plant purchased can be equally mesmerizing as the Aeae. Its variegation is often produced in thin white striping as well as larger sectored patterns. It is a much more hardier and easier to grow variety than Aeae, but best in the ground regarding its adult height. Its also a very heavy sucker producer! So if you are interested in having a beautiful white variegated Musa in your collection, I would go with either of these 2 varieties. I think that most people want an Aeae solely due to its lingering hype and 'Royal' history and has a sort of mystique surrounding it. Photos of these 2 varieties can be viewed in my gallery.

coast crab
11-16-2010, 09:38 AM
Thanks, varig8 and everyone else for sharing so much helpful information and experiences!!!

To illustrate what I wrote about sun vs humidity, take a look at these pics.

Here's my plant in September; still hot, humid summer here (notice the amount of light it's in under my oak)...

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=38493&ppuser=5745><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=38493&size=1 border=0></a>

And here's yesterday (11-15) morning, after a very dry October with almost no rain and very low humidity...

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=38470&ppuser=5745><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=38470&size=1 border=0></a>

Russell

kelehawaii
11-16-2010, 10:27 AM
Thanks, varig8 and everyone else for sharing so much helpful information and experiences!!!

To illustrate what I wrote about sun vs humidity, take a look at these pics.

Here's my plant in September; still hot, humid summer here (notice the amount of light it's in under my oak)...

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=38493&ppuser=5745><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=38493&size=1 border=0></a>

And here's yesterday (11-15) morning, after a very dry October with almost no rain and very low humidity...

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=38470&ppuser=5745><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=38470&size=1 border=0></a>

Russell

Russell:
The same type of leaf damage due to water stress can happen even with the less 'exotic' varieties. I had a lot of leaf edge chlorosis this past summer here in Hilo on both my Dwarf Brazilian and Dwarf Cavendish varieties. The chlorosis is something I'd never seen before as it just browned the edges of the leaves and did not spread to the midrib. I thought, at first, that it was sunburn from the two huge solar flares that took place at that time but one of my fellow growers suggested that since my plants are spaced so close together, that it might be water stress and that I should try increasing my irrigation amount by about double. Well..I followed the suggestion and the problem did not appear on the new leaves.

Kele in Hawai'i

coast crab
11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
Thanks Kele.

I do think moisture is the key here. My summers are rainy and the soil is rich and moist but doesn't stay wet, and drains quickly. Since my problem showed up when the humidity levels went through the floor I assumed it was the dry air. The other part of that is that I think it rained twice in October and I was doing a lot of sprinkler watering. That low humidity really sucks the moisture out of the ground!

Russell

Bananaman88
11-16-2010, 12:48 PM
Any good sources on the variegated Dw. Namwah?

varig8
11-16-2010, 06:30 PM
The best Variegated Nam Wahs I got from Thailand on Ebay, the price has dropped significantly since I purchased mine years ago!

drew leonard
11-16-2010, 09:17 PM
Me to... to learn.
Hey Coast Crab; grew up off D.I.P.

varig8
11-16-2010, 10:20 PM
An addendum to your previous post about the increased browning out of your Aeae leaves in October;........You have to remember one thing.........this was the beginning of fall, and now we are well into the season. Even in the tropics these plants will slow down and not grow as much, the tropics have seasons as well; dryer and cooler in the winter-less humidity, and wetter and warmer in the summer, depending on exactly where in the tropics. I spent a few days during our winter months on the Orinoco in Venesuela and believe me it was COLD. Lots of people have the false belief that tropical plants continue to grow the same amount year round simply because they are 'tropical' and unlike common deciduous plants they are used to seeing growing outside. There is also the decreased amount of sunlight during the winter, which we know has an effect on flowering and fruiting times for some plants. Tropicals also need a 'rest' period and will have a tendency to be in less than perfect condition during the winter months. Even in sunny Miami my plants slow down during this time and always look 'crappier' than the spring and summer months.

kelehawaii
11-18-2010, 03:13 PM
An addendum to your previous post about the increased browning out of your Aeae leaves in October;........You have to remember one thing.........this was the beginning of fall, and now we are well into the season. Even in the tropics these plants will slow down and not grow as much, the tropics have seasons as well; dryer and cooler in the winter-less humidity, and wetter and warmer in the summer, depending on exactly where in the tropics. I spent a few days during our winter months on the Orinoco in Venesuela and believe me it was COLD. Lots of people have the false belief that tropical plants continue to grow the same amount year round simply because they are 'tropical' and unlike common deciduous plants they are used to seeing growing outside. There is also the decreased amount of sunlight during the winter, which we know has an effect on flowering and fruiting times for some plants. Tropicals also need a 'rest' period and will have a tendency to be in less than perfect condition during the winter months. Even in sunny Miami my plants slow down during this time and always look 'crappier' than the spring and summer months.

I've found that, since I'm 19 degrees from the Equator, my banana plants are more vigorous for about a month before, and a month after, each Equinox. They slow down around the Summer solstice...too long a day for them...and again from mid=November to about end January. I would imagine that growth rates would change very little if I were at sea level right ON the Equator but I could be wrong. I've always wanted to find out and, for awhile, thought about moving to Ecuador for a few years just to educate myself. :)

Here on the Big Island, rainfall is relatively evenly distributed throughout the year but favors the winter months which are wetter than the summer months. With a yearly average of 170 inches of rainfall at my location,, I rarely have to worry about enough moisture but, as I have explained in a previous post, my bananas are so closely spaced..no farther than a couple of feet apart, even an inch of rain is not sufficient for their needs so I simply irrigate well if I have not received enough to keep the bananas happy. I've got plenty of water coming out of the bowels of Mauna Loa so it is not a problem. At least not at this time.

Yug
01-10-2011, 09:02 PM
Since joining this August Group, I had decided I must have an Ae-Ae banana. Today I went to our farmers' market and spoke with several banana growers, both commercial and just plant sellers. Their uniform comment was that Ae-Ae is extremely difficult. The purpose of this thread is to learn if anyone has had a long time experience with Ae-Ae and what you did, or didn't do.

Mahalo!

Did you happen to get any leads on where in Hawaii to buy an Ae Ae? It is not easy to bring plants in, so I'd be interested on any info on getthing them locally. Tks.

varig8
01-10-2011, 11:39 PM
Try this guy, I'm pretty sure he has them. On the off chance that he happens not to have any available right now, Ill bet he knows who has more.
Troy Shigenaga
noveltygreens@hawaii.rr.com

Yug
04-17-2011, 03:56 AM
Another question about Ae Ae. Are they supposed to have any pink on them, especially the
midrib of the leaf? I don't remember seeing it when I finally got one, but I'm noticing it now.
Check out the pic so you see what I'm talking about. The older leaves don't seem to have
this.

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=41902><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=41902&size=1 border=0></a>

Aside from the ugly sunburn areas, this young'en appears happy, that rolled up leaf is the
7th new one since it was planted. My others don't put out leaves anywhere near that quickly.

varig8
04-17-2011, 09:34 PM
As I am finding out, there are several banana variegates that look identical in coloration, patterning, and type of variegation to the Aeae. The one that is under the name of "Florida" seems to grow shorter and much thinner, but, it does have pink coloration along the petioles, and I have seen several other AeAe throughout the years that exhibit this. Seems to vary somewhat from plant to plant, Id think the most obvious reason could be the amount of light they are grown in. Some variegates are highly unstable and can vary greatly in appearance and growing conditions can also change the appearance. I have one sold to me as RoxB with almost identical variegation to the Aeae but this pink/red coloration along the midrib, on the petioles, and on the P-stem, is very obvious.

DOMinPuna
04-18-2011, 12:22 PM
Try this guy, I'm pretty sure he has them. On the off chance that he happens not to have any available right now, Ill bet he knows who has more.
Troy Shigenaga
noveltygreens@hawaii.rr.com

I have purchased several varieties of bananas from Troy. He does not have (or at least he will not sell) Ae-Ae. Several people at the Makuu Farmers' Market indicate they are growing Ae-Ae and the plant will become available soon.

robguz24
12-18-2011, 11:35 PM
Aloha DOMinPuna, I see this is an older thread, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I happened to score one at the BIAN sale a couple years ago and the same seller told me then that he had sold one the previous show immediately, and I got mine within minutes of the doors opening the first night of the sale. I had mine growing in an area of the yard with a lot of red cinder and it was slow growing for several months, then shot up, fruited and fell over before the fruit matured, 18 months total. When I cut it down it had some bore holes in it. I'm new to this, so not sure what the pest was or what to do about it. I got 8 keikis, 5 all white, 3 variegated, and none green. All three of the keikis were moved and all are doing very well. I don't treat them any differently than all the apple bananas I have. They get planted with a mix of soil and cinder, with county mulch on top. They get one of the BEI bananas fertilizers every once in a while. They are all in full sun so they white spots burn. Where I am has a similar climate to you, but we have a'a so it's easy to work with. Good to learn about Troy, I'll have to see what he has.

Yug
12-19-2011, 01:55 PM
Mine is still growing, and has 5 pups, but I can't tell yet if they will be white/variegated/green.
I give it a little less water than the others, and use very liberal applications of composted steer
manure - works as a fertilizer, and as a mulch. With this application, the white areas tend to
green-up just enough to prevent most sunburn. It's not big enough to fruit yet, but still growing steady.

<a href=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=47219><img src=http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=47219&size=1 border=0></a>

update - now has 9 pups (had 10, but Gabe swapped me a Pisang Masak Hijau for one). Two look white, and the rest are all variegated. Mother plant has a 9 ft p-stem. Looks quite healthy. I use a lot of composted steer manure for mulch & fertilizer.

varig8
12-19-2011, 07:05 PM
"With this application, the white areas tend to green-up just enough to prevent most sunburn."

Just a small footnote to what I have often read from other members or heard from some plant hobbyists concerning variegation;
fertilizers, amount of light,etc., (and including any other EXTERNAL factors that might seem to affect variegation) DO NOT affect mutations (the white or otherwise variegated portions of the leaves) in a plant. This is a myth and I have often heard that "you can fertilize the variegation right out of a plant". This simply isnt true. The portions of the leaves exhibiting the absence of chlorophyll remain whether the plant is fertilized or not.
It is true that the amount of light can affect the brightness (or dullness) of some types of variegation in plants, but the areas which lack the chlorophyll is still present and does not change. The mutation causing 'variegation' is a lack of chlorophyll in these areas of the leaves- so it can not get more green, or less green, in the portions of the leaf where the LACK of chlorophyll is present. Fertilizing variegated plants, such as bananas, will of course make for a stronger healthier plant. With a sturdy well fed plant like this, it is more capable of supporting the areas which are non functioning (the variegated areas which have no chlorophyll) and then these areas would be less likely to brown out, at least in the instances where it is caused from not being fed enough by the remaining green functioning areas of the plant.

Yug
12-19-2011, 07:50 PM
Well, maybe it strengthened the existing chlorophyll some. All I know is that I was getting noticibly less white areas within about 3-4 week after heavily using the stuff, and I was a little concerned that maybe I had gone too far. Coincidence? I don't have that much experience to say one way or the other, I just know what I saw.

varig8
12-19-2011, 11:53 PM
As I mentioned earlier, and in a few other threads concerning variegation, fertilizers will not change this mutation in plants. Since the majority of these variegates are unstable (they are not genetic mutations) they will each vary within each particular plant pertaining to the amount and distribution of the mutant tissue. There are basically 3 main layers of tissue which make up the leaf, each lying on top of the other. In the apical meristem while the leaf tissue is developing, these layers swirl around on top of each other in opposite directions. Each has its own sectors of patterning concerning where the white and green is positioned. As the leaf is produced and grows out they then end up in the position that they will remain. If you look at the back side of a variegated leaf, you will see that the variegation pattern which is exhibited on the top of the leaf is not always the same as what is on the underside. There is only green tissue and white tissue. But, you will notice on the leaves of the Ae ae, for example, that there are varying shades of greens and 'grays'. They are all gradations of green and white. For example, where you see gradation of greens, this is where one layer of dark green has overlapped either partially or fully on top of a layer of white tissue to form a sector of light green, or, all of the layers of mutant white landing on top of each other would produce a sector of clear white, normal dark green on top of normal dark green=dark green, and so on. If you hold up a leaf to the sun and peer through it, you can oftentimes see where these patterns have landed to form the sectors of different coloration. Its quite beautiful to see this. Fertilizers will not affect this process. Since these are not stable genetic variegates, any notice of them 'greening up' could only mean that the amount of variegation produced during that time period would have been produced as is, no matter if there had been any introduction of fertilizers or not.
Now, having said that, if you would happen to have a plant like a philodendron that shows only a very slight bit of variegation on a single stem, or on a few leaves, most likely it would be overtaken by the plants natural habit of producing mostly normal green tissue (leaves). Since the variegated portions are weaker and not in abundance, the normal green growth can over take it and it would most likely disappear in time. Fertilizing this philodendron would only hasten its growth, thus allowing the normal green tissue to overtake the variegated parts quicker-BUT, it is not the fertilizer that is responsible for the lessening or disappearance of the variegation, it is the growth of the stronger normal green plant. In a genetic variegate this point would be mute as each leaf would be identical to the other; in other words, they are pretty much clones of each other and do not exhibit leaves different to the others, so fertilizing would also cause no difference in the coloration or patterning of the tissue which does not contain chlorophyll.