Log in

View Full Version : what zone will basjoo survive in with no care?


sandy0225
08-12-2010, 05:55 PM
What zone does a normally planted basjoo not require any winter care to come back for say, three years, reliably? I don't mean adding mulch, etc in the winter. I mean just plant it, water and fertilize it and leave it alone over winter.

Here's why...I was thinking it would probably be zone 7. Now I'm in zone 5. When I plant my basjoo a foot deeper, it came back with very minimal mulching. So that got me to thinking--aren't cannas hardy in zone 7? What if I planted a canna plant that was already growing potted a foot deep? Would it bring the conditions from a zone 5 to a zone 7?

palmtree
08-12-2010, 06:02 PM
A good sized basjoo can probably survive a zone 7 with no mulch. Im putting my basjoo in the ground next spring and I plan on protecting it just in case, but I think it probably could make it anyway. When the leaves die from the first frost on a large clump, they could probably insulate it very well. The problem with planting any plant a foot deep is that it would probably rot. Planting something a little deeper isnt bad but a foot is a lot. I have some canna robert kemp in the ground and I plan on placing x-mas lights over the ground with something to keep moisture out to protect them. But this is in a zone 7 and I still have my doubts that it will come back so I might end up digging up the cannas.
Good luck!

blownz281
08-12-2010, 06:32 PM
I grew basjoo for years in the front of my house in Ohio zone 5/4 and never protected them. Always came back with a large mat. Also had purple cannas that came back for several years as well and might still be. We moved several years ago so have no clue.My basjoo I would wait till the frost chocked the plant out good and cut it down to pretty much to the ground.

Vickie H.
08-13-2010, 04:24 PM
I know here in zone 6 some people plant cannas and musa basjoo bananas next to the foundation of their house and they have came back next spring with no mulch. But each yard and house is different. Some might have a micro climate in their yard. I will not take the chance. I will mulch. I had 2 days last winter of minus 13*F and I don't think my musa basjoo's would have lived without their mulch.

Richard
08-13-2010, 04:30 PM
What zone does a normally planted basjoo not require any winter care to come back for say, three years, reliably? I don't mean adding mulch, etc in the winter. I mean just plant it, water and fertilize it and leave it alone over winter.

Oh I see what you mean! I was thinking zero care -- put it in the ground and don't water or feed it, period. For that I would guess anywhere in zone 9 that it rains once per week to 10 days during the warmer months. Lake Quinault in Oregon comes to mind.

Sanatic1234
09-23-2010, 07:55 PM
Musa Basjoo's are extremley root hardy. Here in the uk we get cold wet and windy winters and the basjoo's always seem to take it no problem the only loss you will get is the stem. When the spring returns though it just comes back again but in general the plant never dies. I don't know about the US but i would suggest that to keep the stem in the uk you would need to put a fleece(PLANT JACKET) a round the stem and pack the plant jacket with straw, and hope for a milder winter. Or alternatively lift the basjoo and put inside a green house or conservatory to conserve the height. In all these basjoo's are very hardy!

Kevin
09-23-2010, 11:55 PM
I always thought in Canada, it was zone 9, which is the coastal areas of Vancouver, the Gulf Islands and Vancouver Island. Maybe root hardy down to zone 7. That's just what I've heard, though.

turtile
09-24-2010, 07:25 AM
There are many factors that contribute to survival. Basjoo has a smaller chance of surviving a more northern Zone 7 since the ground is cooler due to prolonged cold. The size of the plant is very important. A large plant well surpasses a smaller one in cold resistance.

I would say a large plant is capable of surviving Zone 7 while a smaller plant would survive Zone 8b.

Kevin
09-24-2010, 11:21 AM
Does it matter what latitude you're at? A zone 7 is a zone 7 no matter where it is. It should be the same temps in order to be called the same zone.

jack hagenaars
09-24-2010, 12:17 PM
the coast here is zone 8a/b....9 in some micro climates....and basjoo will survive if unprotected here..

saltydad
09-24-2010, 02:31 PM
My basjoo survived last winter without any protection except their own fried leaves and p-stems. I'm in 7a, and this mat had over 20 plants coming up. Another planted in my front bed also returned (with 5 pups) without protection, and I just planted the pup last year.

Sanatic1234
09-24-2010, 03:44 PM
The locations and climates that people live in will experience different happenings with there basjoo's,this will play a big part in the growth and survival of the p stems. It's a bit like the US they have longer summers than the UK but the UK have milder winters than the US. So in the summer the US will get better growth but in the winter the uk has a better chance for survival of a basjoo although the basjoo is extremely root hardy. And in my opinion the loss of a basjoo would be rare unless it is only a youngster.

The Hollyberry Lady
09-24-2010, 08:01 PM
Guess I'll find out in Spring if mine will survive the Winter but I buried it a whole foot deeper than it was in it's pot! Other folks in my zone have had theirs survive with minimal or any care at all so we'll see...


: )

turtile
09-24-2010, 08:15 PM
Does it matter what latitude you're at? A zone 7 is a zone 7 no matter where it is. It should be the same temps in order to be called the same zone.

Zone designations only use the average yearly minima.

Northern Zone 7: (just made up as an example)

Cold Week:
14-28F, 8-21F, 3-18F, 10-25F, 17-30F, 15-28F, 20-32F

Southern Zone 7:

Cold Week:
5-34F, 14-38F, 21-44F, 28-50F, 33-55F, 35-60F, 32-58F


Both are zone 7 but one is clearly cooler. The prolonged cold will penetrate deeper into the soil.

Kevin
09-24-2010, 09:16 PM
We use a different system in Canada. Yes, there are differences in the climate of one zone 7 to another, but a plant that does not survive in one zone 7 will also not survive in another zone 7, no matter where it is. True, we don't as much north/south growing area as the U.S., but a zone 7 in Ontario I would be would have the same temperatures as a zone 7 in B.C. If the temperatures are colder, it is not the same zone. In the U.K., most areas would be compared to a Canadian zone 8-9, which is comparable to the pacific northwest. It would make it very confusing to have a plant labelled as being hardy to your zone, then find out it isn't, because you live in the wrong place.

kaczercat
09-25-2010, 01:00 AM
I have heard people use Christmas lights and a little mulch. i'm tryin that in a couple months ! but yeah zone 7b no problem !
oh kevin i know you live in Winnipeg but i can't believe they got snow already in some places, north Edmonton i know it didn't stay but i still can't believe it ! woo crazy s h it

Kevin
09-25-2010, 01:33 AM
Alberta has crazier weather than we do. I didn't know they got snow, but it's not surprising. Calgary got snow a while back already, but it didn't stay. I'm hoping for about a month and a half before we get any substantial snow.

frankthetank
09-25-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm not digging my clump of basjoo...cutting it and mulching. I'm a solid zone 4 here most winters. I think we did have one winter when it didn't go below 0F...but that was/is unheard of. We usually drop to -25F ish most winters, but do usually always have a solid cover of snow, which helps a lot of plants.

JuniPerez
09-27-2010, 08:00 AM
Don't mean to hack the thread, but since we're talking about the basjoo's un-protected survival, does anyone know how long they'll live with the annual cutback? I mean, I know that in frost-free climates after 30/40 leaves it will flower and that's the end of the parent stem… but does cutting back the stem each fall sort of "reset" the leaf count? Or does it just die after a certain amount of leaves without ever flowering?!?!?
My plants give me about 10/15 leaves each growing season - will each die after 3 summers?

hammer
09-27-2010, 11:33 AM
Here are 2 basjoo bananas that survived with no care.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=37009&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=37009&ppuser=3875)

bananarama2
09-29-2010, 04:01 PM
I couldn't take it any more! Unfortunately, a lot of the dialogue here is focused on personal experience, and perhaps one should look at the question of hardiness in terms of giving the plant in question the best possibility of survival in a given planting location. A zone 7 is a zone 7 wherever you find it. Factors such as warm water bodies, frontal v.s. lee-side of mountains, prevailing winds, snow cover, etc. all have an effect on zone....it isn't solely the absolute high and low temperatures of a location. For example, moist soil holds daytime heat, and can bump a zone rating up from a 5 to a 5a perhaps. In your home yard environment, a southfacing wall with good wind protection and steady moisture can mimic a zone one or two zones higher than one on the opposite side of the house. The point is, I guess, to consider the needs of the plant, and if you can meet them, then consider planting it. Tropical plants in a Mid-West climate will usually be a bit of a crapshoot, but sometimes one can get away with it if the local variables modify the environment. My basjoo is happy without protection, as long as I protect it from too much winter moisture. Planting depth is kind of tricky with many plants, which like to be within a certain range to take advantage of soil heat, moisture, etc. Mulching in fall, then removing some or all of it in spring is preferable to planting deeper. Part of a zone rating has to do with how deep into the soil frost penetrates. By mulching, you trick the frost from contacting the still living root mass of a plant, while maintaining the previous mentioned soil characteristics. Also, depending on water tables, deeper planting may accelerate root rot conditions if the water table is high. Just my thoughts...but we all want our plants to thrive. :08:

Bob
09-29-2010, 04:41 PM
Well put bananarama2, I have figs here that have survived and produced fruit regularly here in zone 6 where most people wrap theirs just by having it next to the house foundation which holds extra heat in its southwest facing microclimate . Every little extra thing you can do to help out these marginaly hardy plants adds up and sometime with great success.

bananarama2
09-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Thanks Bob....and I guess a belated Happy Birthday is owed you! Being a relative newcomer here, I kept asking "Who's Bob?, until I saw your latest post! Hope it will be a great year for you! Oh, and I just planted a fig (Brown Turkey) here last spring, now a recognizable tree from a whip with half a dozen buds on it. It's in a sunny spot, surrounded by a hedge for protection, and looks extremely happy there.

turtile
09-29-2010, 06:16 PM
A zone 7 is a zone 7 wherever you find it. Factors such as warm water bodies, frontal v.s. lee-side of mountains, prevailing winds, snow cover, etc. all have an effect on zone....it isn't solely the absolute high and low temperatures of a location.

This is true for the Canadian Zone Map but not for the United States. The US Zone Map only factors the average yearly minima which makes zone designations much less useful. Zone 7 in the US is highly variable.

bananarama2
09-29-2010, 09:09 PM
Aaaaargh! That's the whole point...there are many other factors to consider, along with stated zone. The geographers can only generalize, based on broad averages of an area. Based on local conditions, I am actually in a higher zone than friends only 20 miles away! It gets only more complicated when growers and retailers state zones, because, again, it's only a generalization, "your mileage may vary" depending on other factors. This is not intended to be a debate, just sharing information and alternatives.

Kevin
09-29-2010, 09:11 PM
That must be very confusing when trying to find plants that are hardy for you.

bananarama2
09-29-2010, 09:17 PM
Actually, no, since I'm basically at the highest of the Canadian zones, so get to grow a lot of plants others can only dream of growing. What is hard is choosing what to select from the wide range of possibilities!:woohoonaner:

Kevin
09-29-2010, 09:49 PM
bananarama2: I was typing while you were posting - this was intended for turtile, who is in the U.S. I like the Canadian system, but it is hard to be accurate. For you, living in a highly variable lanscape, yes, there will be many micro-climates and different zones all around you. Here, there are not. If a plant is tagged as a zone 4, I know for sure that I need to take extra care for it. If it is zone 3, it should be rock-solid hardy. No questions.

bananarama2
09-30-2010, 03:00 PM
Absolutely! I used to live in Calgary, which is one of the most difficult places anywhere to grow things due to the extremes of climate, even on the same day. So, I can appreciate what you contend with in Winnipeg. The only benefit may be your winter snow cover, which is an excellent 'mulch'. Because of snow cover and more consistent moisture, Red Deer, which is north of Calgary, actually has a milder (?) climate than Calgary, and they can generally grow a wider variety of plants there (Edmonton too, in some instances). We make the best of what we have, always pushing the envelope when possible. Now go mulch your basjoos! lol:08:

psa
10-05-2010, 06:14 AM
I'm squarely in zone 7, and unless it's planted next to the foundation, I've lost every banana, basjoo and lasiocarpa, that I've placed in the ground and not mulched, even after a full season's growth to get established. At least some mulching is required here, or it's a roll of the dice to see what will survive. Sometimes they survive unprotected, but often not.

I really think zone doesn't come close to telling the whole story. We often go from lows in the mid 40s in October to hard frost and lows in the teens for a week, so the plants don't have enough time to go dormant. Then, in January we might have a couple weeks of highs up to 70F before freezing hard again. It plays havoc on the fragile dormancy of subtropicals.

I will try planting deeper next spring, as suggested on other threads here, to see if that will insulate the corm from such swings. Too late for this year, I think, since they won't really have time to get established.

sandy0225
10-13-2010, 09:08 AM
Ok... I'm officially almost sorry I asked now..... I was just wondering this hardiness question because since I can get basjoo to survive by planting them deeper in zone 5 (and they seem to be hardy to zone 7 with no protection most times planted normally) maybe I can get canna to survive by planting it deeper too. Since I've done this already, all I have to do is wait and see. Thanks for all the input everyone!!!

saltydad
10-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Sandy, now to have brugs and other slightly higher zone plants survive even with mulch will be a great day here in zone 7a!

sandy0225
10-14-2010, 02:05 PM
hey, there is a customer of mine that planted inca sun brugmansia out with her bananas (basjoo), she didn't dig it up in the winter but since it was with the bananas, she cut it down and put the piles of bags of leaves on it too and it came back. so maybe you could try that. It's not tall like if you bring it in, but it did come back from the roots.