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DaveE
06-21-2010, 12:22 PM
We had a very cold winter here, some locals say the coldest in almost 20 years.

I came across a handful of banana mats that were planted between the highway and a parking lot of a small automotive service business about 40 minutes from my house. The bananas were out in the open without protection and did not look like they have had any special care. They looked like Orinoco / Dwarf Orinoco. The largest of the plants were about 5' maybe 5.5' p-stem height (estimated, didn't have my tape measure with me. lol ). What caught my eye was there was a couple flowers coming out and at least one had several hands of fruit developing.

I checked the historical weather data for this town and here is a break down of the number of days that lows reached freezing or below, listed in Fahrenheit, for this past winter.

32 = 4
31 = 4
30 = 1
27 = 2
25 = 1
21 = 1

Thoughts, unusual or not?

Dave

LilRaverBoi
06-21-2010, 12:48 PM
Seems odd that they will survive those temperatures and retain pseudostem without any protection. Is it possible they dug them up and overwintered them or protected them in some way you didn't see? You could always stop in and talk to them about their bananas and maybe they'd even sell you a small plant.

DaveE
06-21-2010, 01:02 PM
Seems odd that they will survive those temperatures and retain pseudostem without any protection. Is it possible they dug them up and overwintered them or protected them in some way you didn't see? You could always stop in and talk to them about their bananas and maybe they'd even sell you a small plant.
I would think the fact that there was several hands of half developed fruit would eliminate any chance of recent transplanting. It is possiable that they protected them, but it would surprise me given the circumstances they were in.

I wanted to get a few
opinions before I made contact with the owner.

Abnshrek
06-21-2010, 01:14 PM
:pics: My input Dave :^)
:nanerwaveytrain:

DaveE
06-21-2010, 01:40 PM
:pics: My input Dave :^)
:nanerwaveytrain:

I tried to get a few with my iphone, but the store was closed and they had a gate preventing me from getting in the parking lot. The only angle I had was from the highway and the sun was behind the flowers and fruit and it washed out the shots.

If this turns out to be something out of the ordinary I will drive back down and make sure they didn't do anything to protect the p-stems and try to talk them out of a couple pups and / or take a few photos with my good camera.

Dave

Abnshrek
06-21-2010, 01:45 PM
I tried to get a few with my iphone, but the store was closed and they had a gate preventing me from getting in the parking lot. The only angle I had was from the highway and the sun was behind the flowers and fruit and it washed out the shots.

If this turns out to be something out of the ordinary I will drive back down and make sure they didn't do anything to protect the p-stems and try to talk them out of a couple pups and / or take a few photos with my good camera.

Dave

:waving: Totally understandable.. Dave I would've held out for a better shot myself. Inquiring minds wanna know.. lol :^) :drum::0517::03:

sunfish
06-21-2010, 02:44 PM
Texas Star ?

DaveE
06-21-2010, 03:17 PM
Tony,

The whole Texas Star / CA Gold scenario is why these are so intriguing. These don't look like they were cut back and they are producing fruit at about 5'. They definitely aren't sheltered or in any micro habitat.

I hope someone that has had some long term experience with the Orinoco group and marginal weather will add their two cents.

Dave

jeffreyp
06-21-2010, 08:07 PM
I tried to get a few with my iphone, but

Dave

Can you use post the gps coordinates? Maybe we can see from google earth?

DaveE
06-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Can you use post the gps coordinates? Maybe we can see from google earth?

I found the location on Google Earth. It was an outdated photo, no bananas.
That would have been awesome if it was current.

LilRaverBoi
06-21-2010, 10:00 PM
Can you use post the gps coordinates? Maybe we can see from google earth?
Nice thought, but Google Earth is not a recent satellite image, by ANY means. It hasn't been updated in AGES. If I look on there, the hotel that was built in my home town in 2004ish still isn't even on there (not even ground work). And according to my best friend's girlfriend, who works some secret government job doing geospatial mapping, it will not be updated anytime soon (no doubt due to national security issues). Just FYI.

RobG7aChattTN
06-22-2010, 08:15 AM
I've had orinoco overwinter here without protection (but not this year) and they came back from the corm. A typical winter would get down to 5F give or take with a few days never getting above freezing. Raja Puri as well (again, not this year). They can hold a pseudostem for a really long time since and as long as the pseudostem doesn't freeze all the way to the center it can stay alive. Up here you'd never get the pseudostem to overwinter outdoors, but maybe those temps were not enough to kill them to the ground. Also, I have a friend that overwintered basjoo up here without protection and in spring it bloomed even without any leaves about two feet off of the ground where the old pseudostem had been cut back in spring. So, I can't say for sure especially having no experience in San Antonio, but it might not be that unusual for orinoco to overwinter in a winter like you had and bloom in early spring.

Abnshrek
06-22-2010, 08:21 AM
I found the location on Google Earth. It was an outdated photo, no bananas. That would have been awesome if it was current.

When I google my place, I have an old yellow vega in the driveway.. lol :^) Sure isn't mine.. lol & I've been here 6 years..

DaveE
06-22-2010, 09:52 AM
I've had Orinoco overwinter here without protection (but not this year) and they came back from the corm. A typical winter would get down to 5F give or take with a few days never getting above freezing. Raja Puri as well (again, not this year). They can hold a pseudostem for a really long time since and as long as the pseudostem doesn't freeze all the way to the center it can stay alive. Up here you'd never get the pseudostem to overwinter outdoors, but maybe those temps were not enough to kill them to the ground. Also, I have a friend that overwintered basjoo up here without protection and in spring it bloomed even without any leaves about two feet off of the ground where the old pseudostem had been cut back in spring. So, I can't say for sure especially having no experience in San Antonio, but it might not be that unusual for orinoco to overwinter in a winter like you had and bloom in early spring.

Thanks,

Thats what I am trying to figure out, is it normal for Orinoco that is planted out in the open and unprotected to flower after being exposed to temps in the low to mid twenties a couple times.

I don't have much to compare it to here as we recorded a low of 16F in the San Antonio area the night they went to 21F.

The other thing of interest is the height. The largest plants are all about 5' p-stem height and several are flowering at that height. My Orinoco that I cut to the ground in March are already well over 7' p-stem height.


Dave

Abnshrek
06-23-2010, 12:39 AM
Well it may not be an Orinoco, but seems functional if edible. :^)

DaveE
06-23-2010, 09:26 AM
Well it may not be an Orinoco, but seems functional if edible. :^)

I came across them late Sunday afternoon on my way to meet someone and was already running a little late. Because of this I did not examine them very close, but I am pretty sure they are a type of Orinoco. Keep in mind that this is in a remote area where Orinoco is as common as weeds and there are no big box stores within an hour.

If they turn out to be something else, even better. Since there are several flowers and fruit it suggest they are fairly cold hardy.

Of course until I go back down this is just speculation. With my luck it will turn out to be an Org member that had them wrapped in freeze cloth and Christmas lights. LOL

Abnshrek
06-23-2010, 10:22 AM
With my luck it will turn out to be an Org. member's that had them wrapped in freeze cloth and Christmas lights. LOL

Too Funny Dave.. Now that would throw a wrench @ the theory for sure.. :^)

DaveE
06-24-2010, 05:55 PM
Today I drove down to get a few pictures and info on the bananas that I came across. It turned out to be closer to an hour than the 40 minutes I originally estimated. This town is located in USDA Zone 8b.

I met the owner, Castro, and he is a super nice guy. He planted the bananas there a couple years ago when he redid the landscaping in front of his shop. He took pups from a mat at his home. He confirmed that they are what the locals call the Burro Banana (Orinoco) and they taste good right off the stalk. He said many people stop by to take pictures and compliment him on the plants. He is very proud of his bananas and loves to talk about them. He is an org member waiting to happen. Castro now has 93 plants, all Orinoco, including the ones at home.

We talked about this last winter and he didn't remember it getting as cold as the National Weather Service reported. He stated that since it doesn't go below freezing very often he doesn't wrap or do anything special for the winter. He did say that this winter the leaves died back and he cut the tops to take them off.

It turns out that the bananas that were flowering at 5' were pups planted last summer. They were taken from his older mats of Orinoco that flower at about 7'. He said they have produced for him every year. There were buds, flowers and bananas all over.

He was more than happy to let me take pictures. Of course I left the battery to my Sony in the charger at home. :o Good thing I have a camera on my phone. I will post a few on this thread. if your interested I will post more in my gallery.

He picked out a nice sword pup for me, but unfortunately most of the roots were under the concrete and it came out with one little root. Hopefully it will make it.

Castro had a couple customers come by before I had time to tell him about the Org, but I plan on going back down in a couple weeks with an Ice Cream and a Saba to thank him for his hospitality.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33189&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33189&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33187&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33187&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33186&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33186&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33195&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33195&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33194&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33194&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33205&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33205&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33204&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33204&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33203&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33203&ppuser=6909)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=33201&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33201&ppuser=6909)

LilRaverBoi
06-25-2010, 12:02 AM
Third pic doesn't look like there will be any 'set' fruit, but all the pics look great! Thanks for sharing. Definitely orinoco...I've heard they're pretty hardy and apparently that rumor is true!

Dean W.
06-25-2010, 04:53 AM
Thanks for sharing the info, Dave.

jeffreyp
06-25-2010, 12:37 PM
great pics and story.

palmtree
06-25-2010, 03:27 PM
Nice pics and very interesting!

cherokee_greg
06-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Wow thanks allot for the great pictures and stories. Nice. Wow these could fruit here in my zone. I recently got one and a dwarf also great :woohoonaner:

Abnshrek
06-25-2010, 03:57 PM
I think its a very interesting story with great pics :^)

Darkman
07-16-2010, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the info. It would be nice to identify and propogate the hardiest of these (Orinocos) and maybe produce and even hardy one than the species

DaveE
07-16-2010, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the info. It would be nice to identify and propogate the hardiest of these

I agree.

I came across one other young mat early this spring that was starting to grow from a couple 4'-5' pstems in spite of the cold winter that included a 16F night. I was able to get a large pup from that mat also.

DaveE
07-26-2010, 10:19 AM
I am going to head back down to visit Castro this morning and see how his bananas are doing. I am also going to bring him a few pups to add to his collection. I am bringing a Gran Nain, Dwarf Namwah, Dwarf Jamaican Red, Saba and an Ice Cream.


http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34799&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34799&ppuser=6909)

cherokee_greg
07-26-2010, 10:25 AM
I am going to head back down to visit Castro this morning and see how his bananas are doing. I am also going to bring him a few pups to add to his collection. I am bring a Gran Nain, Dwarf Namwah, Dwarf Jamaican Red, Saba and an Ice Cream.


http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34799&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34799&ppuser=6909)

wow lucky Castro ! Very nice of you. Good guy

Darkman
07-26-2010, 12:13 PM
Good job DaveE. My collection is just starting to grow in size and numbers but I hope in a couple of years that I can help people out in my area like I was.

Thumbs up!!!

Charles

Abnshrek
07-26-2010, 12:28 PM
I am going to head back down to visit Castro this morning and see how his bananas are doing. I am also going to bring him a few pups to add to his collection. I am bring a Gran Nain, Dwarf Namwah, Dwarf Jamaican Red, Saba and an Ice Cream.

Well nice choices Dave and that's one heck of an token of Friendship. I'm sure Castro will be delighted. :^) My Cheesehead brother is Squared away!!! :^)

DaveE
07-26-2010, 03:18 PM
Well nice choices Dave and that's one heck of an token of Friendship. I'm sure Castro will be delighted. :^) My Cheesehead brother is Squared away!!! :^)

Thanks Amigo, it's all in the spirit of the org.

DaveE
07-26-2010, 03:42 PM
I made it to Castro's a half hour before he had to leave for an appointment so we didn't have much time to talk. I think he was pretty surprised that I came back and brought bananas like I had said I would. You could tell he was very excited as I explained the characteristics of the different types.

I told him about the org, but he doesn't have a computer. He said he was thinking about getting one for his business, so we may hear from him in the future.

I took a few photos to show the progression of some of the fruit that was there last time. He has several more buds and flowers now. I still can't believe how prolific his mats are. Factor in the weather from this last winter and it is just amazing.

I brought back a couple good size pups. I am going to send one to Michael and plant the other here along side a couple other Orinoco / Orinoco sports to see if there is any difference in hardness and / or fruit production.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34821&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34821&ppuser=6909)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34820&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34820&ppuser=6909)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34814&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34814&ppuser=6909)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34813&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34813&ppuser=6909)
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34812&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34812&ppuser=6909)

Jananas Bananas
07-27-2010, 07:11 PM
Tony,

The whole Texas Star / CA Gold scenario is why these are so intriguing. These don't look like they were cut back and they are producing fruit at about 5'. They definitely aren't sheltered or in any micro habitat.

I hope someone that has had some long term experience with the Orinoco group and marginal weather will add their two cents.

Dave

I have been on a mission for over a year now - not long term by any means. However, anytime I am out and about I am on the lookout for bananas. I have found there are stands of bananas growing here all over the state - north to south, east to west. I am talking about the unmaintained, definitely not growing in optimum controlled environments, these are the ones that interest me. The people that own the properties (of the ones I have been able to contact) do not know of any "name" - they are just banana trees, or elephant palms, or just plain pains in the arse to many. They have been passed down from family to family or sold off to others with any linkage cut if there ever was any to begin with. They are very hardy (can't be killed off according to some) and they produce edible seedless fruit. I have managed to collect many "sample pups" of these bananas and I call them my "rescue" or Jananas Bananas! After lots of study and comparison most are Orinoco, Dwarf Orinoco, or sports thereof. I do have a few that aren't in the Orinoco family. I would like to determine if any of these tough little nuts, Orinoco and otherwise, are in fact, the original Texas Star banana.

I personally have been growing bananas for over 10 years now, but not here in the Austin area. I have had some help with my quest from Texas A &M and the Texas Agriculture Department. Just thought you might like to know what I have been doing along the same lines as you! :)

~JaNan

DaveE
07-27-2010, 08:36 PM
I have been on a mission for over a year now - not long term by any means. However, anytime I am out and about I am on the lookout for bananas. I have found there are stands of bananas growing here all over the state - north to south, east to west. I am talking about the unmaintained, definitely not growing in optimum controlled environments, these are the ones that interest me. The people that own the properties (of the ones I have been able to contact) do not know of any "name" - they are just banana trees, or elephant palms, or just plain pains in the arse to many. They have been passed down from family to family or sold off to others with any linkage cut if there ever was any to begin with. They are very hardy (can't be killed off according to some) and they produce edible seedless fruit. I have managed to collect many "sample pups" of these bananas and I call them my "rescue" or Jananas Bananas! After lots of study and comparison most are Orinoco, Dwarf Orinoco, or sports thereof. I do have a few that aren't in the Orinoco family. I would like to determine if any of these tough little nuts, Orinoco and otherwise, are in fact, the original Texas Star banana.

I personally have been growing bananas for over 10 years now, but not here in the Austin area. I have had some help with my quest from Texas A &M and the Texas Agriculture Department. Just thought you might like to know what I have been doing along the same lines as you! :)

~JaNan

Thats awesome! What kind of help did you get from the TAD and Texas A&M? I remember reading something about it in a past post, but I think you were just starting the conversation with them.

Both of the ones I have come across are Orinoco or sports. I am pretty excited about them. I was surprised that they were going from 2' transplanted pups in the summer to fruiting in early spring without any special care. I have a bunch of Orinoco and Dwarf Orinoco from various sources to compare them with so it will be fun to see what comes from it over the next few years. As soon as I start getting pups from this one, I will get one to you if your interested.

Bananaman88
07-28-2010, 07:25 AM
JaNan and Dave,

Since we're all within about 3 hours or so of each other (I'm just south of Houston) it would be very easy for the three of us to trade amongst ourselves. Let me know if I have anything either of you are looking for. See my profile for a list of what I'm growing. I have been giving a lot of my pups to a fellow horticulturist at the zoo here and he is diversifying their collection there.

Jananas Bananas
07-28-2010, 09:06 AM
Dave when I was reading this thread I was wondering if you would want one of mine. Sounds like a plan Dave and Brent! Greg and I usually get to San Antonio a couple times a year. My sister lives in Houston Brent so I come your way often. I have already been trading with Cheryl and Dean - also fellow Texas members! I love it!

~JaNan

DaveE
07-28-2010, 11:00 AM
JaNan and Dave,

Since we're all within about 3 hours or so of each other (I'm just south of Houston) it would be very easy for the three of us to trade amongst ourselves. Let me know if I have anything either of you are looking for. See my profile for a list of what I'm growing. I have been giving a lot of my pups to a fellow horticulturist at the zoo here and he is diversifying their collection there.

Thanks Brent! If you would like anything off my list let me know.
:bananas_b

DaveE
07-28-2010, 11:06 AM
Dave when I was reading this thread I was wondering if you would want one of mine. Sounds like a plan Dave and Brent! Greg and I usually get to San Antonio a couple times a year. My sister lives in Houston Brent so I come your way often. I have already been trading with Cheryl and Dean - also fellow Texas members! I love it!

~JaNan

That would be great!

Bananaman88
07-28-2010, 11:34 AM
Thanks, guys. Yeah, all of us TX members need to hook up!

Jananas Bananas
07-29-2010, 09:02 AM
All of these have been dug up in Texas Zones 7 through 9, they flower and fruit. Here is a sampling of my "Rescue" bananas:

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34969&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34969)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34968&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34968&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34967&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34967&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34966&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34966&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34965&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34965&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34964&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34964&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34963&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34963&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34962&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34962&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34961&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34961&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34960&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34960&ppuser=5614)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=34959&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=34959&ppuser=5614)

~JaNan

DaveE
07-29-2010, 10:20 AM
Nice!

Bananaman88
07-30-2010, 12:09 PM
My sister lives in Houston Brent so I come your way often. I have already been trading with Cheryl and Dean - also fellow Texas members! I love it!

~JaNan

Drop me a line the next time you're going to be in town!