View Full Version : Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages
Richard
04-15-2010, 07:24 PM
Several of you have purchased water-soluble Banana Fuel for fruiting bananas from one of the growing number of suppliers. Here I'm referring to the blueish crystals with one of these formulas: 15-5-30, 15-10-30 Urea Free, and 20-5-30.
The amount to use to obtain good results depends on your growing environment. We can narrow this down a lot if we only consider feeding during the "active growing season" in full sun (or significant artificial light). Here are my recommendations, based largely on the critical amount of potassium needed for vigorous fruit production and the root volume in each situation:
BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
buckeye5755
04-15-2010, 08:18 PM
BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
When your stating 1/4 to 3/4 cup a month examples, how much would go in each gallon of water in order to not make it too concentrated? I usually fertilize once a week in good weather.
Richard
04-15-2010, 09:07 PM
When your stating 1/4 to 3/4 cup a month examples, how much would go in each gallon of water in order to not make it too concentrated? I usually fertilize once a week in good weather.
Solubility is not a problem, any of these dosages will easily dissolve in a gallon of water or less. If you are watering a plant in a pot, then ideally use enough water to dampen the soil but not drain out bottom of the pot. Be sure to dissolve in water before applying because otherwise you will loose a significant amount of the nitrogen to the atmosphere.
For a plant in the ground, I use a 5-gallon bucket so I can cover the entire root area.
Abnshrek
04-15-2010, 09:15 PM
That's the bonus plan :^) My Dwarf orinoco is growing like weed. All the rest are up out of the ground.. :^)
saltydad
04-16-2010, 04:40 PM
Do you have a recommendation for the GroMore, or just follow the instructions on the bag, as I have been doing?
jeffreyp
04-16-2010, 08:29 PM
I've put an entire packet (12 oz?) of miracle grow on an established banana corm with some really good results.
Richard
04-16-2010, 08:33 PM
Do you have a recommendation for the GroMore, or just follow the instructions on the bag, as I have been doing?
Those are recommendations for these formulas, regardless of the supplier:
15-5-30, 15-10-30 Urea Free, and 20-5-30.
All of the above are 30% potash. I believe you have 28-8-18? In that case I recommend following the instructions I attached to the bag.
I've put an entire packet (12 oz?) of miracle grow on an established banana corm with some really good results.
Was it a fruiting banana variety, and what was the N-P-K of the Miracle Grow?
Abnshrek
04-16-2010, 08:43 PM
I've put an entire packet (12 oz?) of miracle grow on an established banana corm with some really good results.
mine is 8 onces do they make different sizes..?
For the same price of 5Lbs of miricle grow; I can get 25 lbs from richard... that's a no brainer :^)
saltydad
04-17-2010, 12:06 AM
Thanks Richard, will do. Can't wait until I can get these bad boys into the ground!
Worm_Farmer
04-17-2010, 10:30 PM
I have been mixing the Banana Fuel with the Grow More Soil Builder. So far so good, I really like using products that contain Humic Acid.
I have been mixing one heaping table spoon of banana fuel and a cap full of soil builder to one gallon of water once every 10 days or so right now. In summer I up it to once a week. Is this mix ok? Should I be mixing the two like this?
Forgot to say, I only mix the Humic Acid product at a min of once every 3 months. Thats why it last so long, or maybe I am using it wrong?
Abnshrek
04-17-2010, 10:34 PM
I have been mixing the Banana Fuel with the "Grow More Soil Builder". So far so good, I really like using products that contain Humic Acid.
What's the Soil Builder do?
Richard
04-18-2010, 02:53 AM
The Soil Builder product adds complex carbon acids to the soil, and also contains a faint dose of N-P-K. It is buffered, and hence mixing a small dose of it with another buffered fertilizer such as Banana Fuel should not cause any precipitates. Worm Farmer, a cap-full of Soil Builder every few months for your potted plant(s) seems appropriate. A little bit does go a very long way.
For people with a lot of potted plants or a larger property, the quarts and gallons of 12% Humic Acid concentrate are more cost effective. Here are the application guidelines:
For 2-3 times per year maintenance applications on garden or crop soils, set sprayer to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon and wet soil to approximately 1/4 inch depth. For carbon-deficient soils, apply a maximum of 1/2 Tablespoon per 100 square feet or 3 quarts per acre as a soil drench diluted at least 1:50 with water and usually 1:128 to acheive the desired coverage of approximately 1/4 inch saturation depth. For example, a hand-pump sprayer with 1/2 gallon of water and 1/2 Tablespoon of Grow More 12% Humic Acid is sufficient for a 10' by 10' (100 square foot) area of carbon-deficient soil. Afterwards, a twice- or thrice-yearly maintenance application applied for 2 to 3 years will correct native deficiencies in most soils.
Abnshrek
04-18-2010, 11:22 PM
The Soil Builder product adds complex carbon acids to the soil, and also contains a faint dose of N-P-K. It is buffered, and hence mixing a small dose of it with another buffered fertilizer such as Banana Fuel should not cause any precipitates.
Thanks Richard I think I'll have to do that in a couple weeks when I can get back around. Appreciate the info. I'll probably get it in next week :^)
sandy0225
04-22-2010, 06:19 AM
Think of banana growing as like being graded on a "curve" in school.
That kind of shape in your mind as a graph. It starts out small, then has a high point in the middle and then gradually tapers off again. Like a capitol letter "D" lying on it's side, kind of.
That's what you do with the watering and the fertilizer both with bananas in cooler climates.
As the weather warms, ramp up your watering and fertilizer amounts. Start gradually increasing their fertilizer from winter lows of 100 ppm every other time to 200 ppm, then 300 ppm. You can go up to 400 ppm in mid summer, provided you're also keeping them well hydrated. Then as the days shorten and weather cools, do the same only in reverse. Start tapering off the water and the fertilizer, back down to 200 ppm by early fall (right before the leaves fall) and as low as 100 ppm every other watering in winter.
saltydad
04-22-2010, 10:14 AM
I've been cutting off my fertilizing in August of my Basjoo and my palms as they stay outside and I want to limit tender new growth with the upcoming cooler weather. Should I continue longer before stopping?
Richard
04-22-2010, 10:31 AM
Sandy, I think that is great advice. For my customers growing outdoors, I recommend feeding only during the growing season.
One confusion I see for novices is how we use the term "ppm" (parts per million). Traditionally in professional circles we are referring to the ppm of Nitrogen, and in some cases the ppm of another mineral. However, I've discovered that hydroponic stores are now selling and promoting "ppm meters" which measure total dissolved solids -- not individual minerals etc. In addition there are hydroponic fertilizer products with ppm dosages on the label for total ppm.
For example:
10-10-10 water-soluble mineral fertilizer at 1200 total ppm = 120 ppm Nitrogen.
15-10-30 water-soluble mineral fertilizer at 100 ppm Nitrogen = 666 total ppm.
The situation is more complicated when a fertilizer product contains other soluble material such as kelp extract. One product I've seen offered recommends dosages of 4000 (total) ppm. This does not mean 4000 ppm Nitrogen! When measured with professional equipment, we find it is delivering 60 ppm N.
venturabananas
08-23-2010, 12:16 PM
I haven't seen what I really want to know from this thread yet: what is a safe (or better yet, optimal) concentration of Banana Fuel to apply? Aside from the small plants (1/4 tsp / gallon at every watering), Richard's recommendations don't give mixing (concentration) guidelines. I might be able to dissolve 3/4 cup into 1 gallon of water, but I'm guessing that might be bad -- possibly a toxic concentration that damages the roots. Sandy's suggestions in ppm make more sense to me, being a biologist, but they still aren't simple mixing instructions.
Should I just use the standard Miracle Grow instructions (1 tablespoon per gallon) and apply this concentration until I hit the recommended amount of Banana Fuel per month? For example, then, I might apply 1 gallon of this mix every other week to a small plant in a 2 gallon pot.
What is the best approach?
Thanks,
Mark
Richard
08-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I haven't seen what I really want to know from this thread yet: what is a safe (or better yet, optimal) concentration of Banana Fuel to apply? Aside from the small plants (1/4 tsp / gallon at every watering), Richard's recommendations don't give mixing (concentration) guidelines.
That's because for larger plants, it is the amount of fertilizer that matters -- not the amount of water. Use enough water to deliver the stated amount to the roots.
If you have a fertigation system, then use 5 pounds of 20-5-30 per fruiting banana plant per year over the course of the growing season in your year.
venturabananas
08-23-2010, 12:44 PM
Richard,
Thanks for the quick reply. I understand the logic that what is important is the amount of nutrients delivered, but by and large, any chemical (nutrient) delivered at high enough concentrations becomes toxic. I want to avoid any possible toxic effects.
I don't have a fancy fertigation system -- it's just me and a watering can applying a soil drench. I just want to know what concentration of Banana Fuel in my little old watering can would be best -- i.e., not too strong. From what I can tell, overfertilizing is generally more risky than underfertilizing.
For example, how does this sound for a 4' tall (p-stem) plant in the ground?
Apply soil drench weekly, 3 gallons of 1 tbsp/gal Banana Fuel. That would deliver 12 tablespoons per month, which equals 3/4 cup -- the amount you suggest.
Thanks,
Mark
Richard
08-23-2010, 01:06 PM
Richard,
Thanks for the quick reply. I understand the logic that what is important is the amount of nutrients delivered, but by and large, any chemical (nutrient) delivered at high enough concentrations becomes toxic. I want to avoid any possible toxic effects.
Toxicity comes with quantity, not with concentration. A non-juvenile plant easily has the capacity to process 1 lb of 20-5-30 in a single dosage -- provided you are delivering it to majority of the root system and not to a single point.
For example, how does this sound for a 4' tall (p-stem) plant in the ground?
Apply soil drench weekly, 3 gallons of 1 tbsp/gal Banana Fuel. That would deliver 12 tablespoons per month, which equals 3/4 cup -- the amount you suggest.
Thanks,
Mark
I think you are working way too hard. It will take the plant about 3 weeks to entirely process any application of 20-5-30. Once per month is plenty frequent enough for hand application of plants in the ground.
venturabananas
08-23-2010, 09:26 PM
Thanks Richard. I'll go with once monthly applications for my in-ground plants.
It is not strictly true, however, that toxicity in living organisms comes from quantity, not concentration. As an example using humans, salt, sodium chloride, is an essential nutrient for us. However, if you were eat the amount of salt that you'd need over a month in only one day, you'd be very ill -- because of the high concentration of salt in your tissues. It's both quantity and concentration that matter.
Who wants a salty french fry?
Cheers,
Mark
Richard
08-23-2010, 09:33 PM
Mark, I agree with your point that each organism has an upper capacity for inputs. In my case, if I ate in one day the amount of salt the average American consumes in a day, I'd be sick. :)
tucsonplumeriaz
08-31-2010, 01:26 PM
i have been using pro-sol 10-16-38 with micros. i apply it at 1/4-strength each time i water.
what do you all think?
Richard
08-31-2010, 11:30 PM
i have been using pro-sol 10-16-38 with micros. i apply it at 1/4-strength each time i water.
what do you all think?
Bananas will only utilize about 1.5 times as much Potash as Nitrogen, and about 1/16 as much Phosphate as Nitrogen. On a yearly basis, they can utilize about 1 net pound of Nitrogen from available sources.
You are feeding them 1.5 times as much Phosphate (P) as Nitrogen, and about 4 times as much Potash (K) as Nitrogen. So, you are wasting P and K. On the other hand, at the given dosage you are probably not exceeding maximums. If you do so, excessive Potash will limit the uptake of other nutrients, particularly Sodium, Iron, and Manganese.
For more information on the role of nutrients, see
Guide to Micronutrients (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/Micronutrients.htm)
For a photo guide to nutrition deficiencies, see
http://www.bananas.org/f356/deficiency-essential-minerals-9038.html#post89519
Worm_Farmer
09-01-2010, 07:58 AM
Richard, Do you think there is anyway we could get Banana Fuel in a Time released fertilizer spike format? I have been using these Fruit and Nut tree spikes on my other plants and seem to have good luck. They easy to use, if I could get Banana Fuel spikes it would make my life super easy.
Justin
09-01-2010, 08:48 AM
What does humic acid add to the plants?
Richard
09-02-2010, 12:20 AM
Richard, Do you think there is anyway we could get Banana Fuel in a Time released fertilizer spike format?
Not from Grow More. Neither the owner or I think that fertilizer spikes are an efficient or cost-effective means of feeding plants.
What does humic acid add to the plants?
Humic Acid is a soil conditioner and not a plant food. It provides a means for plants to sense nutrients in the soil and a substrate for many biological processes. It is a waste to apply humic acid without also having or applying a thick layer of mulch on the soil surface.
nannerfunboi
03-12-2011, 05:25 PM
much thanks richard!!
last yr i used banana fuel.. added to my own mix of rabbit manure tea..and
added kelp,humic,fulvic acids..
plants did great!!! :woohoonaner:
i am very happy with the banana fuel.. thinking of trying bat guano
tea with rabbit manure tea as well..
place i had added coco coir..wow..there are alot of worms..some real
nice nitecrawlers!!!(fishin)..
? anyone else use any kind of bat/seabird guano in there fertilizing
plans on theres nanners?
thanks
Worm_Farmer
03-13-2011, 07:28 AM
? anyone else use any kind of bat/seabird guano in there fertilizing plans on theres nanners?
thanks
I have used Bat Guano in the past, I do not use it anymore. I found that both times I got some it was very dry and smelled very bad. The bad smell (like ammonia) burned my nose, so I used very little when I mixed it into my potting soil mix. I have also hear the Bat Guno can burn plats fairly easy.
Seabird Guano I have used so far, Is nice and black in color with no foul smells. I would reccomend Seabird, and I personally would mix it with your Rabbit Poo Tea.
If you have worms in the soil now, you should be able to spread dry Rabbit manure other you plant bed's to help feed the worms and keep the soil active.
nannerfunboi
03-13-2011, 11:01 AM
thanks wormfarmer!
most recent bat guano i bought on ebay..small retailer..and
supposedly "fresh" whatever that may mean..
i know what u mean by foul smell..this though is actually
very earthy smelling..like fresh wormcastings..so..???
anyways.. ya..im very pleased with worm population in garden
beds.. :08:
i have about 1/2 truck load of rabbit poo still.. im filling up
a newly created flower bed..so i will put in poo..peat,compost..
by june when i put in my nanners,EE,cannas.. it should be
really good soil ...
?do you make aerated worm casting tea with your worm castings
wormfarmer?? i do..and all my plants seem to respond really well to it..
ive been putting it on my tomato seedlings..and they sing praises after
i put it on them.. :) LOL
Worm_Farmer
03-13-2011, 12:23 PM
I do make Casting Tea from time to time. I really do like using it, and I mix it with the Banana Fuel. This year I do plan on making ALOT more tea, but it will probably be mid summer before I really have a lot of castings to use. After I make the tea I spread the soggy castings around my plants.
nannerfunboi
03-13-2011, 12:53 PM
worm farmer..are u using your big wood bin? or how do u keep compost
worms? i have 4 - 37 gal rubbermaid bins..works good for me..
i save back castings during winter..and use in pot mix..and tea..
i do same with left over from tea.. just add to my compost or just on
garden soil..
caliboy1994
03-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Where can I get some of this Banana Fuel fertilizer? I might want to use it this season.
sunfish
03-07-2012, 07:17 PM
Where can I get some of this Banana Fuel fertilizer? I might want to use it this season.
Richard
Plants That Produce at Leucadia Farmers Market (http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/Leucadia_Farmers_Market.html)
caliboy1994
03-07-2012, 08:02 PM
Is it possible to order?
sunfish
03-07-2012, 08:17 PM
Is it possible to order?
Send a PM. I 'm not sure if he ships anymore
Richard
03-08-2012, 02:17 AM
SUV = new Vector<ShippingUnit>() ;
Until I'm done updating my online shopping cart, an email or PM works just great.
caliboy1994
03-08-2012, 11:52 AM
Okay, I'll let you know when.
mrthegreek
05-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Thanks for all the fertilizer info Richard!
I ordered a 5lb bag of your fertilizer from plantsthatproduce.com, it just shipped, super excited to try it out. I am currently in the process of moving my small basjoos (10 inch pstems) that I have had for a couple of weeks, from containers (for sun acclimation) to the ground. How soon after putting them in the ground should I start fertilizing? I haven't used any fertilizer yet, save for some bone meal. (which I have read is pointless to use this early, is that true BTW?) Anything else I should consider?
Thanks again!
caliboy1994
05-10-2012, 02:12 PM
My plants seem to be responding well to the fertilizer. One of my unknown plants is putting out two pups and nice, green leaves and the others are growing nicely. My Ice Cream plant has an emerging leaf that's tangled, though. Could that be from the fertilizer?
Richard
05-10-2012, 07:30 PM
... My Ice Cream plant has an emerging leaf that's tangled, though. Could that be from the fertilizer?
Not in my experience.
I have run out of inventory of the 20-5-30 Fertilizer for Fruiting Bananas, aka "Banana Fuel". It will be awhile before I restock, since the factory only accepts pallet-size orders.
Based on input from a number of growers in the subtropics (continental U.S. excepting south Florida), I am considering updating the formula to 20-10-30. Depending on your location in the U.S., you might be able to find this formula in stock at an agricultural supply store (not at garden centers).
Richard
05-10-2012, 07:34 PM
... I am currently in the process of moving my small basjoos (10 inch pstems) that I have had for a couple of weeks, from containers (for sun acclimation) to the ground. How soon after putting them in the ground should I start fertilizing? I haven't used any fertilizer yet, save for some bone meal. (which I have read is pointless to use this early, is that true BTW?) Anything else I should consider?
Thanks again!
Any time you like, provided you follow the dosage directions sent with the package.
The 28-8-18 is a complete fertilizer. I don't recommend adding other nutrients with it. Maintenance dosages of hormones or soil conditioners would be ok.
venturabananas
05-11-2012, 11:37 AM
My Ice Cream plant has an emerging leaf that's tangled, though. Could that be from the fertilizer?
Yes and no. If you didn't fertilize as much or as heavily, you wouldn't get that symptom, but you also wouldn't get as much growth. On the other hand, if you plants weren't already lacking some micronutrient, you wouldn't have this problem when you fertilize. Lot's of us have experienced this problem with various fertilizers including banana fuel. (See the We Be Bananas website for photos of over fertilizing symptoms.)
My understanding is this:
Plants need "macronutrients" (N, P, and K) and "micronutrients" (e.g., Cu, Ca, B) to build new tissues. In bananas at least, growth seems to be dictated most by the macronutrients, water, and temperature. If you pour on the water and NPK, they grow faster (if it is warm). But for proper tissue formation, the micronutrients need to be incorporated into the tissues, too. The problem is that some of them (e.g., Ca and B) are transported into the growing tissues at much slower rates than N, P, and K. If they can't be incorporated fast enough, you can end up with tangled, deformed, and chlorotic leaves. If you know which micronutrient you are missing, you can add it, either to the soil or via foliar feeding, and the symptoms will resolve by the next leaf or two. Nick pointed out that even when your soil appears to have adequate levels of some micronutrient (I think it was Ca in his case), soil conditions (temperature, wetness, pH) can make it difficult for the plant to take up that element.
In the lack of information about which micronutrient is causing your problem, a broad spectrum micronutrient foliar spray may solve it. Don't haphazardly throw on individual micronutrients because that can exacerbate the problem. I learned that lesson.
Regarding Banana Fuel (since that is what this thread is about), I think that if you had ideal soil pH and consistently used that fertilizer, you probably wouldn't have this problem. But your soil has a "history" prior to using it and so may have specific micronutrient or pH problems that keep the micronutrients in that product from being incorporated into the banana plant tissues fast enough to keep up with the growth forced by the addition of NPK.
caliboy1994
05-12-2012, 04:13 PM
I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup. I looked at the ingredients of Banana Fuel and noticed that it does have trace amounts of these micronutrients. However, I don't know what my soil pH is. Maybe I should save up for a pH meter to test it. The leaf finally emerged, and it was shorter than the previous leaves and part of it was chlorotic while another part was very thin and tore off. Other than that, the leaf was normal. I'm going to see what happens with the next leaf and then determine whether I need to do anything else.
sunfish
05-12-2012, 04:45 PM
I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup. I looked at the ingredients of Banana Fuel and noticed that it does have trace amounts of these micronutrients. However, I don't know what my soil pH is. Maybe I should save up for a pH meter to test it. The leaf finally emerged, and it was shorter than the previous leaves and part of it was chlorotic while another part was very thin and tore off. Other than that, the leaf was normal. I'm going to see what happens with the next leaf and then determine whether I need to do anything else.
I think your using way to much fert.at one time. I could be wrong.
Richard
05-12-2012, 05:27 PM
I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup.
That seems about right, provided (a) you diluted it in enough water to drench the roots and (b) they have significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume each. The picture I have seen of your Mysore in the lawn does NOT have anywhere near that, maybe 1-4 cubic feet.
(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
caliboy1994
05-12-2012, 09:18 PM
That seems about right, provided (a) you diluted it in enough water to drench the roots and (b) they have significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume each. The picture I have seen of your Mysore in the lawn does NOT have anywhere near that, maybe 1-4 cubic feet.
Do you think it would harm the plant?
Richard
05-12-2012, 10:07 PM
Do you think it would harm the plant?
I think you would have seen some evidence of "burn" along leaf edges by now. Using the Mysore as an example, par back the dosage to 1/4 cup per month until the base diameter is 6" and you've removed the lawn back at least a two-foot radius from the plant.
The lawn near the plant must currently be growing like crazy!
mrthegreek
05-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Richard,
I received my banana fuel yesterday. I have some questions about the application rates/plant sizes. For us newbies, can you clarify some physical characteristics to look for to judge what size plant is being referred to in the rate table? For example, in the posts above where you refer to root space and base diameter, this kind of information is very helpful for me. How big would be a "Small or potted plant" be? I think my new baby plants fall into this category (12-14 inches tall overall), or would they still be considered TC plantlets? I also have 3 ice creams that are about 3ft tall overall (2-3 inch diameter base). Would they still be considered Small Plants? Or something in between? Should I stick with the small plant dosage until the base diameter is 6 inches?
Thanks!
Richard
05-13-2012, 08:52 PM
For us newbies, can you clarify some physical characteristics to look for to judge what size plant is being referred to in the rate table?
Sure :08:
(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's. These have 1 inch or less diameter base, with little or no corm (bulb) development. Dosage: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot. This has a diameter of about 1.5 inches or more. It might have been a TC that has been successfully grown for a couple of months, or a "pup" with at least a tennis-ball size corm that has been cut off a mother plant. The pstem height (not counting leaves) will be 12 to 18 inches or more. Dosage : 2 tablespoons per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot, or in the ground with a similar amount of root space. This plant has at least a 3 or 4-inch diameter base. Dosage: 1/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Plant in ground with significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume. Maximum dosage: 3/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Hydroponics. Dosage (regardless of plant size): 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
mrthegreek
05-13-2012, 09:20 PM
Thanks Richard! That's exactly the info I was looking for! Glad I asked too, I would have overdosed my little ones!
Thanks again!
saltydad
05-16-2012, 06:33 PM
Those are recommendations for these formulas, regardless of the supplier:
15-5-30, 15-10-30 Urea Free, and 20-5-30.
All of the above are 30% potash. I believe you have 28-8-18? In that case I recommend following the instructions I attached to the bag.
Yes, this is what I'm using.
Was it a fruiting banana variety, and what was the N-P-K of the Miracle Grow?
Richard- The instructions on the bag have faded almost completely now. Can you repeat the dosages for my bananas that I'm now planting for the season after inside wintering as dormant plants? Thanks.
Richard
05-16-2012, 11:33 PM
Richard- The instructions on the bag have faded almost completely now. Can you repeat the dosages for my bananas that I'm now planting for the season after inside wintering as dormant plants? Thanks.
Sure, just use the instructions I gave on 5/13 to mrthegreek. :)
saltydad
05-17-2012, 12:37 AM
That;s easy!
Starwanderer
05-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Sure :08:
(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's. These have 1 inch or less diameter base, with little or no corm (bulb) development. Dosage: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot. This has a diameter of about 1.5 inches or more. It might have been a TC that has been successfully grown for a couple of months, or a "pup" with at least a tennis-ball size corm that has been cut off a mother plant. The pstem height (not counting leaves) will be 12 to 18 inches or more. Dosage : 2 tablespoons per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot, or in the ground with a similar amount of root space. This plant has at least a 3 or 4-inch diameter base. Dosage: 1/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Plant in ground with significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume. Maximum dosage: 3/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
Hydroponics. Dosage (regardless of plant size): 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
Hi Richard,
I'm posting for the first time today, even though I've been avidly reading this site since December 2008.
I realize this thread is about the Grow More formula and I am planning on ordering some of the Grow More fertilizer for fruiting bananas when available. In the meantime, I have some of the Stokes Tropicals Banana Fertilizer- Controlled released fertilizer (3-month Formula) Analysis: 6-2-12 with minors.
I can figure the dosages, I think, for fruiting bananas, but there's one thing that makes me unsure. Theirs is a controlled release formula which would have to alter the situation somewhat. With the Grow More, it's released quickly, so I know, based on your post, what I would use and how often. How would this change for a formula that is released over three months.
I'm just unsure how the controlled release changes things, if it does. I would appreciate any insight you, or anyone else, can offer.
John
Richard
05-20-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm just unsure how the controlled release changes things, if it does. I would appreciate any insight you, or anyone else, can offer.
John
Consider a dwarf or standard (not super-dwarf or giant) fruiting banana planted in the ground with plenty of root volume (approximately 1 cu.yd. or 200 gallon). Suppose this banana is mature in size but still 3-4 months or so away from fruiting. In the year prior to reaching this stage, you will want to have applied NET 1 lb of N and 1.5 lb of K. Since the 6-2-12 is limited in N we will calculate with K: 1.5 lbs / 12% = 12.5 Lbs during the 1 year period above and thereafter since the corm will have grown to the appropriate capacity.
For smaller root volumes and pots, scale the dosage by volume. So for example, a fruiting banana in a 20 gallon pot would have the capacity for 1/10th that amount.
Starwanderer
05-20-2012, 08:25 PM
Consider a dwarf or standard (not super-dwarf or giant) fruiting banana planted in the ground with plenty of root volume (approximately 1 cu.yd. or 200 gallon). Suppose this banana is mature in size but still 3-4 months or so away from fruiting. In the year prior to reaching this stage, you will want to have applied NET 1 lb of N and 1.5 lb of K. Since the 6-2-12 is limited in N we will calculate with K: 1.5 lbs / 12% = 12.5 Lbs during the 1 year period above and thereafter since the corm will have grown to the appropriate capacity.
For smaller root volumes and pots, scale the dosage by volume. So for example, a fruiting banana in a 20 gallon pot would have the capacity for 1/10th that amount.
Thanks. That helps a lot. I'm gathering that the only difference the timed-release aspect of my current fertilizer causes vs. one not time-released is in when I fertilize. What I mean is that if I want to taper off late in the season to prepare my bananas for over-wintering, then I'll need to start tapering off earlier than I would with one like the Grow More.
I am seriously considering getting a 1000w Metal Halide lighting system to allow me to still get some growth over the winter on these. That should reduce some of the need to taper off the fertilizer. I know this won't be nearly as bright as natural sunlight, but I should at least get some moderate growth over the winter and put me a leg up for possibly getting fruit next year when I move them back outdoors. At least that['s the plan anyway. :)
Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it.
saltydad
05-20-2012, 09:04 PM
One more question (heh heh). Since for some of my plants I'm dosing a mat of 6 to 16 plants in various stages of development, what should I use? 1/4 cup seems much too low for the mat (basjoo). However, I don't want to burn the younguns.
Richard
05-20-2012, 10:27 PM
One more question (heh heh). Since for some of my plants I'm dosing a mat of 6 to 16 plants in various stages of development, what should I use? 1/4 cup seems much too low for the mat (basjoo). However, I don't want to burn the younguns.
Consider the total volume of the corm and roots that comprises the mat, and scale appropriately. It is that maturity of the corm that matters.
saltydad
05-20-2012, 11:18 PM
That makes sense. Thanks!
brandylorton
05-29-2012, 10:08 AM
Nice information here richrd. You have helped me a lot in gaining the knowledge. and it is quite inspiring to grow the plants indoor. Till now i was thinking about it but now i have decide to build my indoor setup.
Syano10
05-30-2012, 07:26 AM
Richard, Puchased 28-8-18 fertilizer from you and would like to know if I should use the same dosages as you recommend for Banana Fuel for fruiting bananas.
BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
Richard
05-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Richard, Puchased 28-8-18 fertilizer from you and would like to know if I should use the same dosages as you recommend for Banana Fuel for fruiting bananas.
BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
For 28-8-18 on ornamental bananas, use 2/3 of the above dosages for 20-5-30 on fruiting bananas.
Syano10
05-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the quick response!!
caliboy1994
06-20-2012, 09:04 PM
Would I be able to fertilize bi-monthly instead of monthly using it but with a smaller dose each time?
Richard
06-20-2012, 10:23 PM
Would I be able to fertilize bi-monthly instead of monthly using it but with a smaller dose each time?
There is no horticultural reason for doing so.
Snookie
07-26-2012, 06:12 PM
There is no horticultural reason for doing so.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49582 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49537&ppuser=13202)
Was that a yes or no answer?
sunfish
07-26-2012, 06:19 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=49582 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49537&ppuser=13202)
Was that a yes or no answer?
You can fertilize every time you water if you want
WATER SOLUBLE (http://www.growmore.com/productpages/watersoluble.html)
Snookie
07-28-2012, 06:03 PM
You can fertilize every time you water if you want
WATER SOLUBLE (http://www.growmore.com/productpages/watersoluble.html)
Or use the whole 3/4 cup and appy all at one time?
Just one time a month?
Same results?
Richard
07-29-2012, 12:07 AM
Or use the whole 3/4 cup and appy all at one time?
Just one time a month?
Same results?
That's what I do on my mature-size plants -- although the root system is so large I use 3 5-gallon buckets each with 1/4 cup per plant.
Snookie
07-29-2012, 11:04 AM
That's what I do on my mature-size plants -- although the root system is so large I use 3 5-gallon buckets each with 1/4 cup per plant.
Wow....That's exactly what I did. 1/4 cup dissolved in 4 gallons of water for each plant. SO.........Now how many days till I need to do the fertilizing again?
Richard
07-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Wow....That's exactly what I did. 1/4 cup dissolved in 4 gallons of water for each plant. SO.........Now how many days till I need to do the fertilizing again?
No, that is not what I said. :)
If the plants are mature in size, then FOR EACH PLANT: 3 5-gallon buckets of water each with 1/4 cup of fertilizer.
GoolsbyMD
07-15-2013, 11:46 AM
How about for the banana fuel i recently purchased from you it's 20-6-16 should it be 4tsps per gallon? For mature plants
Richard
07-16-2013, 01:46 AM
How about for the banana fuel i recently purchased from you it's 20-6-16 should it be 4tsps per gallon? For mature plants
For constant feeding, use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.
For less frequent feedings, your goal is to deliver a maximum of 5 lbs per plant per year. However, you should not exceed 1 lb in a single feeding and it should be dissolved in 5 to 10 gallons of water. As with any water-soluble fertilizer, it should only be applied during the active growing season.
:08:
mrthegreek
08-04-2013, 11:03 AM
Hi Richard,
I'm using your 28-8-18 fertilizer on ornamentals (musa basjoo). Do you have any thoughts on using a garden hose bottle sprayer such as this (Amazon.com : Gilmour 362 Professional No Pre-Mix Sprayer, White : Lawn & Garden Sprayers : Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-362-Professional-Pre-Mix-Sprayer/dp/B00002N67I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375629626&sr=8-1&keywords=hose+spray+bottle)) to apply fertilizer? I was thinking I would dissolve the fertilizer in a small amount of water and fill the bottle with the solution.
Thanks!
Richard
08-04-2013, 11:32 AM
It will require some arithmetic. Let's suppose your Gilmour (or Ortho) hose-end sprayer is set to deliver at 1 Tablespoon per gallon. That's a mixing ratio of 1:256 (there are 256 Tbsp per gallon). These sprayers will hold up to 1 quart of solution. So if the concentrate you put in the hose-end sprayer is 1/2 cup in 1 quart of water (equiv. to 2 cups/gallon), then the actual concentration coming out the sprayer will be 0.375 teaspoons per gallon -- which is about right for a foliar spray.
Hi Richard,
I'm using your 28-8-18 fertilizer on ornamentals (musa basjoo). Do you have any thoughts on using a garden hose bottle sprayer such as this (Amazon.com : Gilmour 362 Professional No Pre-Mix Sprayer, White : Lawn & Garden Sprayers : Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-362-Professional-Pre-Mix-Sprayer/dp/B00002N67I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375629626&sr=8-1&keywords=hose+spray+bottle)) to apply fertilizer? I was thinking I would dissolve the fertilizer in a small amount of water and fill the bottle with the solution.
Thanks!
mrthegreek
08-11-2013, 11:49 AM
Thanks Richard!
at2wooden
11-14-2013, 07:39 PM
Good information here!
Island Brah
05-15-2017, 01:02 PM
For constant feeding, use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.
For less frequent feedings, your goal is to deliver a maximum of 5 lbs per plant per year. However, you should not exceed 1 lb in a single feeding and it should be dissolved in 5 to 10 gallons of water. As with any water-soluble fertilizer, it should only be applied during the active growing season.
:08:
What is considered 'constant feeding' and what is considered 'less frequent feeding' in regards to time in between.
Thanks!
Richard
06-23-2017, 03:02 PM
What is considered 'constant feeding' and what is considered 'less frequent feeding' in regards to time in between.
Thanks!
Constant feeding means every watering.
Less frequent feeding means once per month.
brianrumsey
05-31-2018, 09:35 AM
Many thanks to Richard and others for this great thread.
I have a couple of questions that I haven't found answers to:
I see various references to the annual amount of fertilizer that bananas can use. I am wondering how this relates to length of growing season? In the tropics, for example, the growing season may be all 12 months, while in Iowa my growing season is basically four months for outdoor bananas. So when I read that a banana can use up to a pound of nitrogen per year, should I assume that's a banana being fertilized year-round, and my four-month growing season would need only a third of a pound? Or would that not be correct?
Also: If water soluble fertilizer is applied once per month, should I be concerned that some of it will wash out with subsequent waterings (watering frequently during the summer) before the next fertilized watering?
Richard
05-31-2018, 01:14 PM
Brian -- your calculation is correct. The constant feeding method is a good choice because no guesswork to the growing season length is required, nor is there an issue with washout.
brianrumsey
06-02-2018, 07:49 AM
Very good info. Thanks!
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