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Blake09
11-25-2009, 07:28 PM
I am going to attempt to cross a Ice Cream 'Blue java' with a M. Basjoo in the spring... Do you think it would work? I wonder what the fruit would look like, and taste like... comments??..??

:2732:

Ezekiel
11-26-2009, 01:47 PM
I definately want some

Hardy edible banana, if it works?

BananaLee
11-26-2009, 06:54 PM
Good luck! If it does, I would defiantly get one!!!! GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

Gabe15
11-26-2009, 09:31 PM
There is a chance you may get seeds, but then there is the issue of if the seeds will be viable or not, and from there selecting good candidates out of the progeny. Classically, banana breeding involves many different crosses and backcrosses before anything useful is obtained. You may end up with something, but it will not be easy, and there is no guarantee that what you end up with will be much of anything.

As far as seed set goes (which is one of the very first steps in a long series of steps of banana breeding), you will likely have the most luck using M. basjoo pollen on the 'Ice Cream', but if you can get any pollen from the 'Ice Cream', try doing it both ways.

Steven Valys
11-27-2009, 10:03 AM
in the spring..

Will you have both flowering in the spring, in zone 7-8?

Blake09
11-27-2009, 12:08 PM
Will you have both flowering in the spring, in zone 7-8?
I dont think they will flower at the same time but if they do I will try it that way.

I am going to try to make a hybred without seeds, another way, It should work with two pups...

RobG7aChattTN
11-27-2009, 11:09 PM
What method is that?

Blake09
11-29-2009, 07:52 PM
I had seen a video on this, but I cant find it... :( Heres how it went:

1)You take 2 Pups
2)You cut both the pups courms in half (well a little less than half...) with a big nife
3)You tie the two togeather with string
4)Plant them in a pot
5)let them grow
6)And hopefullay when the plant produces a pup it is a hybred between the two..

Seems like it would work to me. There was a botanist hosting this video, he did many banana plants like this. There was going to be a new video coming out soon showing his results...

sunfish
11-29-2009, 09:00 PM
I had seen a video on this, but I cant find it... :( Heres how it went:

1)You take 2 Pups
2)You cut both the pups courms in half (well a little less than half...) with a big nife
3)You tie the two togeather with string
4)Plant them in a pot
5)let them grow
6)And hopefullay when the plant produces a pup it is a hybred between the two..

Seems like it would work to me. There was a botanist hosting this video, he did many banana plants like this. There was going to be a new video coming out soon showing his results...

http://www.bananas.org/f2/grafting-bananas-insistent-banana-grower-mauro-6346.html#post50753

Blake09
12-01-2009, 07:27 PM
Thanks sunfish,

Here is the first video I saw, and then made this thread:

YouTube - Grafting Banana Trees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNXbbIknQb8)

And the second video:
YouTube - Grafting Bananas Stage 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1-mcT0_usY)

Here are some other videos related to this:

YouTube - Grafting mature banana specimens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NlcBw7AxAY)

YouTube - Corm-grafted bananas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbLyiemjw8)

PAbananas
12-02-2009, 06:25 PM
If its like other fruit trees I don't think it will work. Each side should remain true to varity and if the new shout comes from one side it should be that varity. By cross pollanting the flowers you will get a true blend of bananas but only in the seed. Just a thought.

aliamyz
02-18-2010, 05:02 AM
So did anyone get results from this attempt?

griphuz
02-18-2010, 05:54 AM
You have got to be kidding,...does that method really produce hybrids??
I've never heared of that in apples or other fruit, only grafting a cultivated aple on a wild motherstem,...but no hybrids though...
Kind regards,
Remko.

asacomm
02-18-2010, 05:42 PM
Nothing new happens from the grafting which in fact seems impossible.

aliamyz
02-18-2010, 08:00 PM
If they do wanna prove this theory,they should use more prominent varieties such as Red X 1000 fingers or X dwarf.Something like this,then we can see if it's really working but in my opinion,The species used in all the attemped grafings are the same which does not make any difference to the result.

PAbananas
02-18-2010, 10:27 PM
I am by no means a expert on Bananas nor do I claim to be. I do no fruit trees and grafting on rootstocks will just adjust the size or help with desiese resistance. I no that you can take the geans of vegetables and make a hybrid if you have a lab but for those of us who dont, cross pollanating the flowers of different plants will give you a new plant with both plant geans. With that in mind I believe that the same would hold true for bananas. There are members in this group that grow bananas in labs who surely will no how to hybernizs these plants

Gabe15
02-18-2010, 10:30 PM
lets not start a new grafting thread, please direct all comments and questions about grafting bananas here: http://www.bananas.org/f2/grafting-bananas-insistent-banana-grower-mauro-6346.html

xavierdlc61887
02-18-2010, 10:55 PM
thank you gabe!! for putting that!!!

Caloosamusa
02-19-2010, 10:43 AM
PAbananas is correct about the grafting method, and Gabe gave some good time and effort saving advice that is also most accurate.

The Ice Cream is a female fertile banana (ABB) and has not been observed producing viable pollen according to the research I've read.

Basjoo does produce a viable pollen, but is a different species from Musa acuminata and Musa balbisiana, the prodgenators of the hybrid "Ice Cream". Hopefully the pollen from Basjoo will be compatable.

Gabe is correct by advising a Paternal Basjoo, Maternal Ice Cream cross.

I hope it works!!! My God grant you success!! :2239:

jeffreyp
02-19-2010, 03:13 PM
the biggest problem is getting two plants to flower at the same time. You have to have a pretty big grove / plantation to have that kind of flexability.

Basjoofriend
02-20-2010, 07:46 AM
I agree Gabe15, you will only have success when you use basjoo pollen to pollinate Ice Cream! The reason is simple, Ice Cream is triploid, ABB und Musa basjoo diploid. The new tetraploid disease resistant banana cultivars were created from pollinating triploid plants with diploid pollens! Triploid pollens might be infertile. So will my Brazilian basjoo be the dad of my new hardy fruit bananas! I plan to try pollinate Mysore, Prata and FHIA-18 with basjoo pollens in the next years in Brazil. You also try to cross Mysore with basjoo, this cross was already successfully with viable hybrids! You can renew the cross. But you need 10 to 20 Mysore plants. because only one seed was found in each bunch. 10 seeds were found in 10 bunches and 5 of them did germinate and all of the seedlings were viable.

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

jeffreyp
02-20-2010, 11:33 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/images/banana_pollen.jpg

Gabe15
02-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I agree Gabe15, you will only have success when you use basjoo pollen to pollinate Ice Cream! The reason is simple, Ice Cream is triploid, ABB und Musa basjoo diploid.

This is not entirely true, some triploids can produce viable pollen (just as they can produce viable ovules and set seed when pollinated and fertilized). You must remember that although triploidy contributes to sterility some of the time, it is not a major factor and certainly not a dominating element. Most of the reasons for sterility are unknown errors that occur during meiosis (but not inherently related to ploidy level), or issues in the pollen germination. There are many reasons for sterility, but they are not well understood.

The reason I recommend using 'Ice Cream' as the female, is that even though there is a diverse origin of the ABB group, the ABBs seem to be rather good at setting seed. M. basjoo is likely not the best parent to breed for cold hardiness with, it does not breed well even with wild diploid M. acuminata and M. balbisiana, but if trying with a small number of plants, its easier to get a large amount of M. basjoo pollen and pollinate a plant that is known for setting seeds in some cases, rather than digging for a small amount of pollen and pollinating a plant which is poor at setting seeds with pollen from a different variety.

Basjoofriend
02-20-2010, 03:13 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/images/banana_pollen.jpg

Thanks, this shows how to pollinate bananas. I will take so as many as male flowers from Musa basjoo "Sakhalin" from Baldur Garten which is now in Brazil in my new yard and touch the female flowers of Mysore, Prata, FHIA-18 und Musa sikkimensis with the from Musa basjoo outbroken male flowers. Then I will wrap the pollinated inflorescence by one plastic bag and pollinate every day until the first male hand begin to flower, then I castrate the bunch (cut the male flowers and the male bud off) and I let the plastic bag at the now pollinated bunch for some weeks. So that I avoid unwanted free pollination from other pollen. The bunch must be always labeled with the names of cross partners, e. g. Mysore x basjoo, FHIA-18 x basjoo, sikkimensis x basjoo, Prata x basjoo etc.

If it is not very successful, then I will try to cross with pollen of sikkimensis, yunnanensis und xishuangbannaensis. Also Mysore x sikkimenis might be very good and cold resistant, probably even better fruit quality. And also FHIA-18 x sikkimensis might be good. If Musa sikkimensis does fail in my garden in Lucianópolis because of the sandy soil and heat, then I will improve the soil, I will dig up one large hole, so 10.00 meters long x 1.50 meters wide x 0.60 meters deep and fill the hole up with garden waste, leaves, lawn cut, horse manure, chicken manure and dead old sugar cane. Then I plant at the end of this year or at the begin of the next year many pups of Mysore and other cross partners. But I self will not dig up because I was operated on Tuesday at my leg, the titan plate and 6 screws were removed from the bone of the tibia in my right leg, spent 3 days in the hospital and may not carry heavy things for 3 months, but my bone is o.k., so that I may last my leg fully, but not with heavy lasts and heavy works, no sport for 6 weeks, the holes of the screws in the bone have to close in the healing process. Then my housekeeper Antonio will dig up and I will instruct him.

But also Helton has seedlings of Musa sikkimensis and he also grow this species, I gave him the seed last year. See also Família das musaceae (http://frutasraras.sites.uol.com.br/musaceae.htm) on the site of my friend, he also supports me. He will produce seeds, pups and also pollen.

Best wishes
Joachim