The Celeberty Game! (or anyone famous you can think of, past or present)

[sunfish]

Yoshio Yoda
Yoshio Yoda is a Japanese actor who played Fuji Kobiaji on the television series McHale's Navy. He also appeared in the movie The Horizontal ...

[Patty in Wisc]

Oh Lordy Lordy.
Sunfish posted Ben Carruthers after Harvey's St Bernard of Clairvaux..Tony's first name shoulda started w/ C not B.
In the case of Van Gogh, Van is part of his last name & not his middle name. In my book he is 'Van Gogh, Vincent'. Harvey shoulda picked up w a V name & not G (for Gerald). whew
ex: Moore, Mary Tyler (Tyler is middle name not part of last)

[sunfish]

Oh Lordy Lordy.
Sunfish posted Ben Carruthers after Harvey's St Bernard of Clairvaux..Tony's first name shoulda started w/ C not B.
In the case of Van Gogh, Van is part of his last name & not his middle name. In my book he is 'Van Gogh, Vincent'. Harvey shoulda picked up w a V name & not G (for Gerald). whew
ex: Moore, Mary Tyler (Tyler is middle name not part of last)

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (no last name known

[Patty in Wisc]

Harvey & Benny, where are we? I think this is getting very challenging now & ppl should read the last 2 posts before posting to make sure it's on right track & maybe search the last name to see if it's legit to pick up on.
Pull over - who's driving!? :)

Sunfish-"Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (no last name known"
I think I see what you mean! You looked at Saint Bernard. But 'Clairvaux' could be considered the last name.
In my dictionary shows Example: Francis of Assisi...Assisi being last name. This is confusing isn't it!?
Also, St., Jr., Dr., Mr etc should not be considered part of a name...they are titles.

[bencelest]

Oh Lordy Lordy.
Sunfish posted Ben Carruthers after Harvey's St Bernard of Clairvaux..Tony's first name shoulda started w/ C not B.
In the case of Van Gogh, Van is part of his last name & not his middle name. In my book he is 'Van Gogh, Vincent'. Harvey shoulda picked up w a V name & not G (for Gerald). whew
ex: Moore, Mary Tyler (Tyler is middle name not part of last)

I think we are doing the right thing
On Google this is what it says:
Vincent van Gogh's biography
Van is not a part of the last name but a middle name or separate from the last name like
Anna de la Cruz de la is not capitalized but a separate word preceding the last name Cruz. Such examples as:
De La Hoya
De La Salle
Da Vince
As in the case of Van Gogh or as you just posted Tyler is a middle name so one should start with M.
So the next post should start with a G (Capital case).
And Saint Bernard ( no last name known) clearly states that. So Tony starts with B. I would do the way Tony had done.
That's my understanding.

[harveyc]

Tony is right, it's just Bernard.

[harveyc]

I don't know what Vincent van Gogh's last name is. In some Portuguese names, some people have a name like Joe da Silva and others have Joe DaSilva. The "da" means "of" and I don't know if it's part of the last name or if it's like saying Harvey of Isleton, etc. What does "van" mean? Is it like "of"? It's probably part of the last name, I guess, but it is weird since it's not connected.

Best just to move on, IMO.

[bencelest]

I don't know what Van means but if it is written as separate word in google or in encyclopedia it should be treated as such, separate word and not a part of the last name
If Dasilva is written as one word, then I agree the last name starts with a D. But many Spanish names and Filipino names have a prefix before the last name and treated as NOT a part of the last name but separate word describing the last name.

[harveyc]

Thanks for helping me look halfways smart, Benny! :ha: I did just try to find some translation of "van" to get an idea of its function in a name, but my eyes started spacing out after reading a great deal on the various pronunciations of Vincent van Gogh's name, dialects, etc.

[harveyc]

Yvonne Strahovski - Australian actress

[bencelest]

Hey Harvey: You are not the only one who is learning from here........

[bencelest]

In my dictionary shows Example: Francis of Assisi...Assisi being last name.

I don't think so. Saint Francis is described as He came from Assisi, a village in Italy and not part of his last name.. Saint Francis name again has no last name..
St. Francis of Assisi
Founder of the Franciscan Order, born at Assisi in Umbria, in 1181 or 1182 — the exact year is uncertain; died there, 3 October, 1226.

Assisi (Italian pronunciation: [asˈsiːzi], from the Latin: Asisium) is a town and comune of Italy in province of Perugia, in the Umbria region and on the ...

[Patty in Wisc]

I'm wondering what 'Van' means too. Another name I found here is Anthony Van Dyke - also know as Vandyke (Dick Van Dyke!). Anyway, my dict. says Vincents last name is Van Gogh. Charles De Gaul's last name is De Gaul. OK, I shut up now.
Where's Lorax? She'd know this stuff?

[harveyc]

Just give us a name, Patty!!! :D

[Patty in Wisc]

Back in the days when they asked "Francis who?" Answer would be "of Assisi" which I think would qualify it to be a last name.
I too am learning guys! :)

[Patty in Wisc]

picking up from Yvonne Strahovski
Stan Laurel

[sunfish]

Lee Marvin

[harveyc]

Manuel Noriega - former military dictator of Panama

[sunfish]

Norbert Siegfried Actor: "Combat!: The Old Men (#4.10

Tony of San Diego

[Patty in Wisc]

Shelly Winters

[Patty in Wisc]

Harvey de la Isleton, you up? :)

[bencelest]

Harvey de la Isleton, you up? :)

ha-ha-ha

[bencelest]

WilmaRudolph (June 23, 1940 – November 12, 1994) was an American athlete, and in the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome,she became the first American .....

[Patty in Wisc]

Richard Gere --- hubba hubba

[harveyc]

Grover Cleveland

[Patty in Wisc]

Cindy Williams

[Patty in Wisc]

William Hurt

[lorax]

Herodotus of Halicarnassus.

Patty, here's an explanation.

The Van in Dutch names, like the Mac in Scots ones, the Mc in Irish ones, and Bin, Ben, and Bet in Arabic and Hebrew, is a familiar locant. Hence, Van Gogh is 'of the house of Gogh' and Van Eyk is 'of the house of Eyk.' Mac and Mic mean 'son of.' Bin and Ben are also 'son of' and Bet is 'daughter of.'

The locative articles in Scots, Irish, and Dutch names are generally capitalized and count as the beginning of the name, especially when they have been absorbed into it (like Vanderbilt for example, which can also be written as Van Der Biilt). Irish names using Mc (Mic) always carry a capital letter after the locative, as in McDougal, where Scots ones are variant - eg Macdonald and MacDonald are both acceptable, although the former is more common in use today. In Hebrew and Arabic names, the article may or may not be capitalized but counts as the beginning of the surname in any case - hence Osama Bin Laden would pick up from a B, and not an L.

The de, de la, del, du, or d' in French names, de in Spanish ones, and di and da in Italian and Portuguese, is a place locant. Hence, Charles de Gaulle is Charles of Gaul (France before the Frankish invasion), and Diego de Almagro is Diego of Almagro (Castille, near La Mancha). Leonardo da Vinci was from Vinci in Tuscany. The place locant for Irish names is O' (ie O'Malley.)

Properly, the locative articles in French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian are NOT CAPITALIZED, and for the purposes of this game don't really count towards the name. Hence, for Leonardo da Vinci, I'd pick up from V and not D. Irish place locant names, however, do begin with the O.

Now, what does this all have to do with Catholic saints and antique historic personages, you ask? I would posit the following: we accept that, for example, Leonardo da Vinci had no formal last name, but we use his place locant. The saints are referenced in exactly the same way, although a bit of digging would reveal that many of them had other names.

You were arguing about St. Bernard of Clairvaux earlier. If you're worth your historical salt when it comes to saints, you'll know that his name at birth was Bernard de Fontaines et Monbard, but that, as is common among the Catholic clergy especially in the 11th century, since he founded and belonged to the Abbey of Clairvaux in France he would have taken that as his surname from the moment he assumed the mantle of Abbot. This is, or course, exactly how many French locative surnames originate, and I would argue that for lack of another, St. Bernard de Clairvaux (to give the saint his name in French) takes his abbey as his surname, and would be treated in exactly the same manner as Charles de Gaulle. And because there are no fewer than SEVEN St. Bernards of various places and various times, I'd argue that without their locatives they're pretty much useless in terms of the game - how does one tell them apart? - and that the locative constitutes a surname in the case of the saints.

In terms of antique historic personages, like Herodotus of Halicarnassus as I have posted above, I'd say it works the same way as with the saints - the locative forms the surname.

[sunfish]

Henry of Ghent

[lorax]

St. Germaine de Paris

[sunfish]

Peggy OF Mondo



OOPS

[lorax]

Veronica Lake

[bencelest]

Judge Leonie Brinkema, who presided over Moussaoui's trial

[bencelest]

Bill CammackBill Cammack
Bill Cammack is an MIT graduate, Emmy Award-Winning video editor,

[harveyc]

Cynthia Ann Stephanie "Cyndi" Lauper - singer

[harveyc]

Thanks, Beth, very informative and detailed post on the names. Maybe it can get copied and quoted into the first post of this thread for easier reference when we're at page 200 or so... ;)

So what's your take on the first letter of Vince van Gogh? Not that it matters at this point, but it's the name that started this discussion.

[bencelest]

Thanks, Beth,
So what's your take on the first letter of Vince van Gogh? Not that it matters at this point, but it's the name that started this discussion.

Beth? Who is she Harvey?

[sunfish]

Lee KriegerActor: "The Andy Griffith Show: The Bank Job

[Patty in Wisc]

Loraxes 'Germaine de Paris' (last post pg 114) was picked up by Sunfish as
'Gerold of Vinzgouw'. Name shoulda started w/ a P from Paris!!!! Please pay attention!
Thank you Beth for the nice explain. So, I was somewhat right. In the name of Van Gogh, the next name would start with V.
(Benny, Beth is Lorax)
So now what? should start from Germaine de Paris --P.

[BananaLee]

Judge Judy

[harveyc]

Loraxes 'Germaine de Paris' (last post pg 114) was picked up by Sunfish as
'Gerold of Vinzgouw'. Name shoulda started w/ a P from Paris!!!! Please pay attention!
Thank you Beth for the nice explain. So, I was somewhat right. In the name of Van Gogh, the next name would start with V.
(Benny, Beth is Lorax)
So now what? should start from Germaine de Paris --P.

Please pay attention, Patty! ;)

Beth did not specificaly say van Gogh should start with V. In the majority of searches I found, van is now capitalized such as at Vincent van Gogh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh) and it is certainly never connected to Gogh (like McDougal). That's why I asked for clarification. Beth did write it as "Van Gogh", but I don't believe van is normally capitalized with his name.

[harveyc]

Jerry Brown - politician overdue for retirement, once dated Linda Rondstat

[sunfish]

Bill Quinn

[lorax]

Please pay attention, Patty! ;)

Beth did not say van Gogh should start with V. The van is lower case and she made the case for examples such as Joe da Silva starting with "S", that's why I asked her to clarify her take on van Gogh.

Actually, Harvey, Patty's got it right. van Gogh starts with a V.

The locative articles in Scots, Irish, and Dutch names are generally capitalized and count as the beginning of the name, especially when they have been absorbed into it (like Vanderbilt for example, which can also be written as Van Der Biilt).

[Patty in Wisc]

Beth said:
"The locative articles in Scots, Irish, and Dutch names are generally capitalized and count as the beginning of the name, especially when they have been absorbed into it (like Vanderbilt for example, which can also be written as Van Der Biilt). Irish names using Mc (Mic) always carry a capital letter after the locative, as in McDougal, where Scots ones are variant - eg Macdonald and MacDonald are both acceptable, although the former is more common in use today. In Hebrew and Arabic names, the article may or may not be capitalized but counts as the beginning of the surname in any case - hence Osama Bin Laden would pick up from a B, and not an L."
Harvey, in Van Gogh both are caps caps. in a name like de la Paris, should begin w/ a P.
Bin Laden should start w/ a B.
Lorax, we need you again!

[Patty in Wisc]

Thank you Beth

[Patty in Wisc]

"Judge Judy" was followed with a J name. Judge Judy has a last name -- I think it's Schineler (?) & it shoulda been followed with S. Judge is NOT her first name & Judy is not her last name.

[harveyc]

Beth said:
"The locative articles in Scots, Irish, and Dutch names are generally capitalized and count as the beginning of the name, especially when they have been absorbed into it (like Vanderbilt for example, which can also be written as Van Der Biilt). Irish names using Mc (Mic) always carry a capital letter after the locative, as in McDougal, where Scots ones are variant - eg Macdonald and MacDonald are both acceptable, although the former is more common in use today. In Hebrew and Arabic names, the article may or may not be capitalized but counts as the beginning of the surname in any case - hence Osama Bin Laden would pick up from a B, and not an L."
Harvey, in Van Gogh both are caps caps. in a name like de la Paris, should begin w/ a P.
Bin Laden should start w/ a B.
Lorax, we need you again!

Patty, read the Wikipedia link. van Gogh is not capitalized. Most of the other sources I found also did not capitalize van. Beth did not capitalize it in her last reply either, so I don't understand why some locative portions of names are considered part of the last name (even when not capitalized) and others are not.

This isn't fun any more. I quit. This is supposed to be a game, not some blasted war. Giving commands to other people does not belong here.

[bencelest]

"Judge Judy" was followed with a J name. Judge Judy has a last name -- I think it's Schineler (?) & it shoulda been followed with S. Judge is NOT her first name & Judy is not her last name.

Judith Sheindlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
udith (Judge Judy) Sheindlin Biography (1942

[lorax]

Cripes, I never meant this to become a war! I was just trying to explain something which is intrinsically clear to me, but which you asked about....

Selena Quintanilla-Pérez - Mexican Singer, famous for popularizing the Tejano style of music.

And to answer the question that I'm sure is coming, this name is picked up from the Q.

[BananaLee]

"Judge Judy" was followed with a J name. Judge Judy has a last name -- I think it's Schineler (?) & it shoulda been followed with S. Judge is NOT her first name & Judy is not her last name.
Sorry, at first I didn't know it was a game and I know Judge is not her first name.

[bencelest]

Cripes, I never meant this to become a war! I was just trying to explain something which is intrinsically clear to me, but which you asked about....

Selena Quintanilla-Pérez - Mexican Singer, famous for popularizing the Tejano style of music.

And to answer the question that I'm sure is coming, this name is picked up from the Q.

Because it is hypenated. But if it not then I think the next post should start with a P.

[lorax]

It is hyphenated, but I'd argue that even if it weren't it would still pick up from the Q. Spanish last names work that way.

[bencelest]

It is hyphenated, but I'd argue that even if it weren't it would still pick up from the Q. Spanish last names work that way.
I don't think so.

Where I grew up, (We have Spanish names) from first grade to high school the teacher ignores the middle name of the last name. For example Laura dela Cruz

The teacher put Laura under the letter C and not on D. This is true in all the schools throughout the country if they put names in alphabetical order not only in school but in government offices, newspapers , etc.....

I guess it is different here in the US.

[momoese]

I'd post a name but I have no clue where you are now. :ha:

[lorax]

Q.

I'm with Harvey - this has ceased to be fun. I quit.

[bencelest]

I'd post a name but I have no clue where you are now. :ha:

I think we you should start at Tony's last post
Bill Quinn

I think we should be more compassionate and forgiving. This is just a game, if someone makes a mistake, we should not start dictating the right way, let's just keep going for fun . Only if someone makes a mockery of the names, I think that is unforgiving.

[Patty in Wisc]

The last legit name, in sequence is first post - page 115
Peggy of Mondo (following Lorax' St. Germaine de Paris)
Now that Sunfish fixed it. Last legit name to follow is
Peggy of Mondo (who is that BTW?)

[momoese]

Montford T. Johnson

JOHNSON, MONTFORD T. (1843-1896) (http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/J/JO012.html)

[Patty in Wisc]

Benny quote:
"Only if someone makes a mockery of the names, I think that is unforgiving."
Benny, who made a mockery? (??)
There are rules to every game - scrabble, monopoly, baseball etc. When people don't follow them or make things up, it no longer is fun for those that are serious about playing. When someone is corrected, they should not be offended. I LEARNED from being corrected.

[Bob]

Jimmy Hoffa

[bencelest]

Benny quote:
"Only if someone makes a mockery of the names, I think that is unforgiving."
Benny, who made a mockery? (??)
There are rules to every game - scrabble, monopoly, baseball etc. When people don't follow them or make things up, it no longer is fun for those that are serious about playing. When someone is corrected, they should not be offended. I LEARNED from being corrected.

I agree with you Patty 100%

[bencelest]

Harry Connick,musician, actor

[momoese]

Cassandra Peterson AKA Elvira Mistress of the Dark

[bencelest]

Louis Pasteur a world renowned French chemist and biologist

[Bob]

Patty Duke

[momoese]

David Duke - America's most famous unapologetic racist and anti-Semite

[Bob]

Duke Ellington

[momoese]

Ellen Stratton 1960 Playboy playmate of of the year.

[Bob]

Stevie Wonder

[momoese]

Whitney Kaine - Playmate of the Month Sep 1976

[palmtree]

Katy Perry

(singer)